So after almost 50 years of daily carry, I re-discover the 380 again

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george burns

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I had a PPK's in the early 70's for carry when I lived in NYC, yes I was one of the lucky ones who put up with a year of paperwork and character analysis, along with letters and 3 interviews, to finally get a carry license in NYC. But I Moved to FL in 94, and had my 2 pistols sent from dept to dept free of charge, and went right into the Glock phenomina.
Long story short, I was always buying something, "much like most here", and had in small calibers, 22, 25 Jetfire, Seacamp in 32 and then an lcr, Pony, Mustang, "Donkey, lol" in 380, the LCP was a "horrible little first gen" but it always did work.
So, my wife who never shoots, "lungs and arthritis from 50 yrs of weaving hair as top Colorist in a top salon in FL, decides she will get her carry license, "the 3 girlfriends had enough with the crime wave".
So heck, I ran out and got her a lcp custom, "much improved model from the original".
It's still sitting in the night table, so I decided I would carry it as a bug, until she get's into gear.
The little thing is a great little shooter and you don't even know it's there. I carry a Kahr PM9, "which is light enough, but this is rediculous, i never carried my seacamp, always felt undergunned with a 32 that was finicky to begin with", but this gun with hot rounds in it, may actally be enough to do some serious defensive shooting with.
So now it's the glock "one of several in 9mm or 45" and this little Lcp. Hell close up, it's going to do the same job as the 9, "at ranges that you can reach out and touch someone", and it's reliable and has 8 rounds, so I take back the last 10 years of bashing people wh carry 380's, although I won't carry it as a Primary, around the house or in the garage or yard it's fine. i can still keep an extra mag which disapears, and it should lay down enough fire to get me into where the 45's or rifle is at.
My Marine DI uncle used to say, Nephew, get a 45, or a 22. The way you shoot, that 22 is just as dangerous as anything else, and you shoot well enough to put them where you want to.
So I just ordered a 22 magnum 351C, Smith, 7 rounds. Now I won't carry it as a Primary either, but that round will kill you just as dead, as any other, provided you can hit what you are aiming at.
And that one will not hurt my wifes wrist or hand as much as the 380, "which does have a nasty recoil, if you have a bad hand to begin with. My plan is to put a shooting glove on her first, so as not to scare her off before she gets started.By the way she used to shoot my 1911 very well, hands just hurt with age and arthritis.
But I will go and look at som more Ballistic tests done with the 380, I used to run ball ammo in my Walther, I knew that would penetrate, and HP's weren't really reliable in the 70's from a small gun, "or any gun".
 
The .380 round has certainly come a ways over the years, and so have the pistols chambered for it. I also carried a PPK/S as a BU/OD when I was on the job, and ammo was limited in both availability and configuration compared to today's choices.

I certainly won't disparage anyone for carrying it.
 
Those super stack 9s, cool .40s, and combat .45s that we all swear by, often get left at home.
If you want to carry, the lcp will go unnoticed.
I have the extended mag which gives a better grip plus 8rd capacity, so win, win.
It's not perfect, I wish it had a safety, and better sights, and slide lock on last shot.
For what it is, I like it.
 
I don't really buy the whole "if it's big it will get left at home thing", my feeling is if you really want to carry you will. My EDC for the past 6 years without fail has been a Glock 19 (or 32). I'm 6ft, 185# average build and my normal dress is slacks or jeans, button up shirt or polo and a jacket when it's cold. Summer time is cargo shorts and tshirt or Polo shirt generally. With the proper holster I've never had an issue with printing or discomfort. That being said, it is certainly easier and more forgiving to conceal a small pistol like an LCP or Shield, Glock 43 etc. Basically is just opens up more options but at the same time diminishes some advantages as well.( shorter barrel-less velocity, less mag capacity, less sight radius etc)
I do own a new LcP2 and it is a fantastic improvment. I bought it as simply a pocket gun to toss in sweat pants or gym shorts when I'm not actually going out, but want to get the mail, walk the dogs etx and still be armed. When I use this my carry load is either the 90gr XTP or Critical Defense from Hornady or Federals old HydraShok. These loads have proven to penetrate deep enough while expanding reliably, so are the only ones I will carry when going to the "bottom shelf" of defensive calibers. I don't like FMJ because even in .380 you can get 20" or more penetration with ball and that puts bystanders in danger. For reference just Look at the number of officers struck by "friendly fire" when the NYPD duty round was a 115 FMJ. Horrendous!
Prior to buying the LCP i used one of my NAA mini revolvers for this pocket practice, but to me anything rimfire, even a magnum, leaves ALOT to be desired. Plus the LCP is much more accurate/versatile than the little single action .22 and can be quickly reloaded.
All this being said, I am a firm believer in the "first rule of winning a gunfight is HAVE A GUN!" so I will not criticize anyone for their carry choices as long as they carry something. If a pocket .380 is all one will reasonably carry everyday and anything larger will in fact not be carried, then the little .380 is actually the best carry weapon for you. (6 rounds of .380 right now beats 15+rds of something else home on the dresser)
I wouldn't volunteer to get shot with ANY load in .380 so its not like we're talking about an airsoft gun, it is still a lethal defense tool. The biggest key with any handgun caliber is going to be where the bullet goes. As it sounds from the OP original post you are a fairly accurate shooter so continuing to train with whatever you carry and keeping that accuracy up is going to be your biggest advantage. I also hope you are able to get your wife comfortable and squared away as well because that can be very important in the case of you not being there or, God forbid, you being injured and she had to take the defensive reins. Good luck and enjoy the revised trigger on the new LCP!

Also, for carry loads in .380 again I highly recommend Something loaded with the Hornady XTP, either their factory product or a Black Hills/Fiocci load with that bullet. Second to that is the old Hydra Shok from Federal and basically tying that round is the newer Critical Defense. All 3 of those rounds are proven performers in the little .380 meeting FBI penetration standards and expanding concistently. Anything else is going to be a gamble.
 
The .380 round has certainly come a ways over the years, and so have the pistols chambered for it. I also carried a PPK/S as a BU/OD when I was on the job, and ammo was limited in both availability and configuration compared to today's choices.

I certainly won't disparage anyone for carrying it.
i agree with you my friend....
 
I now carry a little Taurus 380 in an ankle holster. It likes Fiochi 90 grain hollow points. The trigger is much better than an LCP.
I too used to carry a PPK/S off duty or as a back-up before I retired from the job. Although my double action trigger pull was horrible.
I would not mid getting another PPK or even better yet a Sig P-230 in 380.
I do have a 13 shot Mauser HSC Super in 380. It is all steel and was made on sub contract by an Italian firm for Mauser. It is oddly accurate with +P loads. But it is the size of many compact 9mms.
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I like the .380 and have owned a PPK/S in that caliber for a very long time. Recoil is snappy and the dbl action pull is atrocious but the accuracy is refreshing. Got a PPK in 7.65 and consider that sufficient as well. But the .380 gets a lot of carry.
 
And that one will not hurt my wifes wrist or hand as much as the 380, "which does have a nasty recoil, if you have a bad hand to begin with. My plan is to put a shooting glove on her first, so as not to scare her off before she gets started.
Sounds like a good plan. But you could also make it easier on her by getting something soft-shoting like Glock 42. I assure you with all credibility of a stranger on the Internet that Glock 42 has lower recoil than LCP. I had my wife go to all local ranges and we tried all .380s that they had for rent (even Walther PK380 :)). There's a noticeable difference between them. The SiG P238 is very nice too, but it has an external safety which is not friendly for novices carrying.
 
My aluminum frame SIG P238 is wholly reliable, and its recoil is much softer than my heavier .380 Interarms Walther PPK/S. Its slide is easy to rack, and it has good sights to boot.
 
I like most of the members on the forum own a choice of handguns. If you have been around guns for awhile you may have started with 3.5" .357 S&W Mdle 27. After all that was what the FBI carried.
Over the years the trend has been toward smaller carry friendly handguns. We carry for personal protection defense. Police carry for both offence and defense.
In most cases the civilian carry weapon will be used at distances of under 21 feet. It is not wise to pursue an adversary unless you can afford an expensive lawyer. :thumbdown:
 
I now carry a little Taurus 380 in an ankle holster. It likes Fiochi 90 grain hollow points. The trigger is much better than an LCP.
I too used to carry a PPK/S off duty or as a back-up before I retired from the job. Although my double action trigger pull was horrible.
I would not mid getting another PPK or even better yet a Sig P-230 in 380.
I do have a 13 shot Mauser HSC Super in 380. It is all steel and was made on sub contract by an Italian firm for Mauser. It is oddly accurate with +P loads. But it is the size of many compact 9mms.
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Have you shot the new LCP 2 or just the LCP? I just got the LCP II as a gym shorts pocket gun and the trigger is amazing. It's a single action trigger with nice even take up and then a crisp break. It's better then any 738/TCP I've ever shot. The LCP trigger was garbage though I admit, and no last round hold open on the mags. The new LcP2 though is much improved. Super light too. I hate that it's .380 but I love the gun itself lol.
 
11 inches penetration, .46 cal expansion in gelatin shot through 4 layer denim.

If that's good enough, then .380 is good enough.

Its a lot better than my jiu-jitsu against a doped-up 19-year-old. I'm pretty sure of that.
This is NOT the case with all .380 loads though, especially in these micro pocket guns so choose ammo wisely please! Some of the best names in defensive anmo perform terribly in tiny .380s. Critical Defense, Ranger T series, even the beloved Gold Dots are terrible performers in short barrel .380s. Use something loaded with an XTP bullet (Hornady, Fioocci, HPR etc) or Federal Hydra Shok. These are the two bullets most likely to meet FBI standards consistently. Many other bullets can pull it off periodically in .380, but the XTP and Hydra Shok are the two that will hit the 12" mark and expand every time. Also the old stand by of FMJ should be avoided. Typically 90gr FMJ will leave a Tiny little wound cavity and poke rite through 20-25". Not worth it!
 
This is NOT the case with all .380 loads though, especially in these micro pocket guns so choose ammo wisely please! Some of the best names in defensive anmo perform terribly in tiny .380s. Critical Defense, Ranger T series, even the beloved Gold Dots are terrible performers in short barrel .380s. Use something loaded with an XTP bullet (Hornady, Fioocci, HPR etc) or Federal Hydra Shok. These are the two bullets most likely to meet FBI standards consistently. Many other bullets can pull it off periodically in .380, but the XTP and Hydra Shok are the two that will hit the 12" mark and expand every time. Also the old stand by of FMJ should be avoided. Typically 90gr FMJ will leave a Tiny little wound cavity and poke rite through 20-25". Not worth it!
federal hydrashok didn't too too well in luckygunner's tests. Critical defense did better. If you care to look it up.
 
I am perfectly fine with .380 in my Beretta 85FS which does get carried sometimes. I also like 9x18, and carry guns chambered for that as well when I am not carrying my CZ PCR.
 
I gave some thought to another .380 when looking for a regular carry pocket gun. The PPKS was at the top of the list but too expensive and hard to find. Ditto the Sig P230 or a Beretta Cheetah. Settled on a plain old Colt Cobra because it was available, reasonably priced and met my needs. My defensive scenario is for close range and quick action. The gun needs to be small and light enough to be a constant companion; i.e. no thought whatsoever about going in the pocket all the time.

I had an incident the other night and was glad the Cobra was handy even though it was not needed. The point being the gun must always be on my person and not in a drawer or on a shelf because it is too bulky or heavy.
 
federal hydrashok didn't too too well in luckygunner's tests. Critical defense did better. If you care to look it up.
What pistol was used for the test? Hydra Shok doesn't do well in most calibers by today's standards, but from a 2" barrel in .380 it was some of the best for me. Concistently 11.5-13" even thru denim and expanded nicely. Critical Defense did well from a Bersa thunder .380, but from my little LCP it only goes about 7-8".
 
What pistol was used for the test? Hydra Shok doesn't do well in most calibers by today's standards, but from a 2" barrel in .380 it was some of the best for me. Concistently 11.5-13" even thru denim and expanded nicely. Critical Defense did well from a Bersa thunder .380, but from my little LCP it only goes about 7-8".
Do you have testing data for your evaluations? Did you take any pics? I'd be interested to see your results. What medium did you use?
 
I usually carry a 9 or 45, but I use a 380 Bersa for hot days. Critical defense works well.

Like George I got years of practice so I dont feel underarmed.
 
I sometimes carry a Berreta Model 34 in 380, made in 1966. It will feed empty cases. It's the only pistol I've ever fired in self defense, and it saved my hide. I'll never ever sell it. I also have a Walther 380, imported in i975, that I like too. The barrel is longer than a PPK and is quite a bit more accurate. Maybe the best of all is my Sig 230. My everyday carry piece, though, is a Smith and Wesson CS9 loaded with Federal HST 9MM.
 
Over the years I gravitated away from the DA/SA type of .380 (mainly the Walther PP and PPK/S family), and found greater shooting comfort and obtained more accurate results with the SAO trigger, locked breech design of the Colt Government .380, Colt Mustang, and SIG P238.
 
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