So, exactly what IS the penalty for being caught on Amtrak with a gun these days?

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damien

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Is there a special law against it? I know it is against their rules, but barring a federal law that I don't know about, what can they do other than say "You're banned from Amtrak". If they caught you with a legal gun, they can certainly call the cops to meet you at the next stop. But when you show the police your license, then the cops will say "have a nice day". Or am I wrong here?
 
You could possibly be written a ticket/arrested for trespassing, trespassing with a gun, or something similar depending on your location.
 
Don't know what the penalty is, but if you do and haven't turned it over to the conductor, etc., you have broken a Federal Law.
See the ATF Regs in the sticky at the top of this forum, Para 478.31(a).
 
Don't know what the penalty is, but if you do and haven't turned it over to the conductor, etc., you have broken a Federal Law.
See the ATF Regs in the sticky at the top of this forum, Para 478.31(a).
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That's interesting. Do the cops commonly know this is in violation ATF regulation? Knowing that no state law is violated, would they even care? Would they forward that to the ATF's office or directly to the U.S. Attorney? Would the ATF care? If the ATF asked the U.S. Attorney to consider it for prosecution, would the U.S. Attorney give a crap about this? The U.S. Attorney usually has more important stuff going on, like actual crimes. I know a person who works with a U.S. Attorney's office and s/he says that they prosecute the "worst of the worst" and leave the rest to state law - especially gun crimes. Maybe 10% of felon-with-a-gun cases get federal attention, the rest get prosecuted by the state.
 
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damien,

It's probably as gryffydd said, they just kick you off and nobody else gives a crap.
However, that said, doesn't mean that they will never care. They may decide to enforce it and some poor soul will be hanging out in the wind. ( or use it as an "add-on" to some other charge.)
 
And I wish I could remember where I read that. I researched it extensively before I carried on one of their short hop trains. (Olympia to Seattle).
If I come across it I'll post it.
 
I just don't think that the U.S. Attorney would take referrals from Amtrak, they take referrals from only a few places. They only prosecute a small percentage of the referrals. I would think Amtrak would call the local cops and if the cops found no local or state laws were broken, they would stop there. I can't see them being aware of this ATF regulation buried in the CFR (which is the size of a several shelves of books). Most local cops hardly know their own local and state laws (which is why they arrest open carriers in places where it is explicitly legal and then are surprised when they get sued).

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Amtrak's policy is to make you get off/deny your access and give you a refund.
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That could land you in some serious hot water, and not with Amtrak. Let's say the next stop where they're dropping you off at is, say I don't know, Washington DC :what:
 
Bringing a firearm onto Amtrak without notifying them is a violation of 18 USC 922(e):

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Violating this law is a Felony
 
I think this is all ironically funny because for the longest time I didn't know you COULDN'T take a gun on Amtrak. I lived and went to school on the rail route between Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul. But my train stayed in MN the whole time, and I figured that since I wasn't traveling interstate, my permit allowed me to carry, and nobody ever told me otherwise...
 
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter.
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Carrying a concealed weapon on your person is NOT what this law addresses.

That could land you in some serious hot water, and not with Amtrak. Let's say the next stop where they're dropping you off at is, say I don't know, Washington DC
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Well duh. It's still your responsibility to be legal in whatever jurisdictions you enter. whether you stay on your train or not.
 
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gryffydd,
Read the second part of the regulation:
except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter.
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I would say that the bit about "being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger " does address concealed carry. If it is being "moved with you" it needs to be turned over to the conductor, etc. in order to protect you from violating any of the provisions of the chapter of the law.
Trains are just like aircraft, no CC in the passenger area.
 
for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce
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A. It does not cover intrastate anything
B. It is still specifically related to commerce. You can't just ignore the bolded portion. Taken in context of the entire section it's clear what is being addressed.
 
Last time I looked AMTRAK is interstate. (I'll leave it to you to argue that you weren't leaving a given State. See the similar argument concerning guns made in and not for sale out of state. (Montana, Tennesse, etc.) The BATFE is sending warning letters to FFL's about this.) Better yet, try open carrying on an intrastate airline flight. Same difference.
And moving people around is also "commerce".
 
Amtrak is government owned and operated. Not sure, but I think it falls into the same category as "federal buildings/property". My uncle has worked for Amtrak for over 30 years, and my grandfather worked for them from before WWII until the late '90s (w/a leave of absence for the war of course). His father was a railroader also.
 
Amtrak is government owned and operated. Not sure, but I think it falls into the same category as "federal buildings/property". My uncle has worked for Amtrak for over 30 years, and my grandfather worked for them from before WWII until the late '90s (w/a leave of absence for the war of course). His father was a railroader also.
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Just because it's a government owned corporation doesn't mean that it falls directly into that "federal buildings/property" "gun free zone" category by default. BLM land is government owned and isn't gun free at all. There has to be some law or regulation that makes it a crime. So far, there is a lot of debate here about what certain laws and regulations actually say. But I will mention that the general law forbidding carrying of a weapon onto a federal facility is 18 USC 930.

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

...

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
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Isn't that bold section a huge opening for someone with a CCW?
 
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Wasn't there some vote in congress just last week to force Amtrack to allow passengers to carry weapons in their luggage?
 
B. It is still specifically related to commerce. You can't just ignore the bolded portion. Taken in context of the entire section it's clear what is being addressed.
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This one will hang you.

Since the ruling and eventual rewrite of the "Gun Free School Zone" act, ANY firearm is by default considered to be related to interstate commerce from the governments point of view. You might win eventually but it's gonna take a trip to the Supreme Court.
 
The fact that the federal government can pretty much any law it wants that is not specifically excluded by the Constitution by invoking the commerce clause doesn't mean they can prosecute you for a nonexistant law. The question here is if there is any existant law that could be used to prosecute someone for CCWing on Amtrak. Is there? So far we have one regulation that says maybe, if the ATF and a U.S. Attorney were willing to try to enforce that ATF regulation over a mostly local matter of CCW on a train. The statute that probably is the controlling statute (18 USC 930) seems to say no because of the "other lawful purposes" exemption, and that statute would only apply if Amtrak was considered a "federal facility".
 
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