So, I want a .308 MBR on the cheap...

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Dorrin79

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Been wanting a proper MBR for a while now - I like my SKS, but it isn't a real Battle Rifle.

So I'm poking around AIM Surplus and I see this -

CETME

wood stocked CETME built on stainless receiver for $359.95.

Are CETME's pretty good? I know they're basically a H&K G3, but with Spanish furniture.

Will this be suitable for my MBR want, or should I save up for a couple months and get a FAL or a M1A?

Thanks!
 
I say save up the extra money and get exactly what you want.

The extra few months saving will be worth it.

I know by hard experience. Don't ever get something merely because it's a little cheaper.

Figure out what you want and then do what you need to get the money for that thing.

Of course, you may need to be realistic about what you want.

Make a list of the features and capabilities you want and then find what fits that list.

hillbilly
 
Mondo -

To me, the SKS is more of a bastard-assault rifle/MBR-combination; it doesn't shoot full-power rounds, has a fixed magazine, and is kinda big and heavy. I like it, but it leaves something to be desired in terms of long-range (>150 yards) accuracy and power.

Hillbilly -

Not sure what I want, if you know what I mean! I'm not set on any given MBR type; so I was wondering if the (relatively) inexpensive CETME is a good choice, ceteris paribus
 
Okay. Gotcha.

CETME---I think they are fun plinkers, but have some down sides. Only a relative few out there with a relative few corresponding parts and magazines available. I have never shot one, but have read and heard spotty reliability reports. But they are cheap.

Nothing like parts and mags and modifications available for FALs. Even with the ban, you can find 20 round FAL mags for like $5 to $7 each.

I admit it, I'm a FALaholic, as I own one and really like my FAL. I put my FAL together from a parts kit and Imbel receiver for right at $600. Had to get a gunsmith to attach the barrel to the reciever, but I did every other part myself and I am by no means an engineer type.

There are AK-47 pattern .308s out there like the VEPR, but they currently suffer from a lack of normal capacity mags thanks to the stupid Assault Weapons Ban. But that ban should die in September and maybe normal capacity mags will be available. Also, the AK design is a proven one with a long track record of reliablity with lots of parts and mods available.

The M-14 or M1A family is out there, but usually at least a grand for a domestic made and even $700 for Polytech or a Norinco. And currently mags are very high, but should come down with the death of the Assault Weapons Ban. Lots of parts and mods available for these, too.

There is always the route of getting an M1 Garand in .308 or getting a beater in .30-06 and just swapping out the barrel for one in .308 and voila, instant .308 battle rifle, but fed with only 8 round clips.

Then, there is the whole HK G-3 type family of .308 battle rifles....parts and mags and mods available, but they tend to run rather high in price thanks to the stupid AW Ban and import ban.

I say, before you buy, make some range buddies and fire a couple of different types of .308 MBRs. Find out what feels good to you.

hillbilly
 
Hillbilly -

thanks for the extended response!

I've fired a FAL, and I really liked it. Your points about mag availability, acessorizing, parts, etc. are good ones.

So, if I wanted to start down the FAL road, were would I start?

AIM has these
R1A1 Sporter FAL built on metric receivers, synthetic furniture, 'new barrel' for $529.

Are those a good starting point?
 
Century Arms FALs are a crapshoot.

Some people have gotten Century Arms FALs (which is what AIM is selling) that work out just fine.

Others have gotten Century Arms FALs which are out of spec, broken, or just plain won't work well.

hillbilly
 
A crap shoot is being polite. Century's QC is iffy at best. You never really know if the rifle built by them will work or not.
The CMP is the best bang for your buck. $350 US and up.
The SKS was a stop gap semi-auto rifle made to be issued to illiterate troopies with minimal training required. It's certainly a battle rifle. Just not a main battle rifle. Just like the M-1 Carbine.
 
mail order

any gun you buy thru the mail which is not brand new is a crap shoot...find a good reputable place with good customer service...then if u have problems send it back...my cetme is great....had a worn firing pin but functions great and is a blast to shoot...mags are plentiful and real cheap...parts are everywhere for them and a lot of hk91 parts interchange...as for a FAL i would like one myself but the cheaper version i ordered from SOG was a nightmare...but they took it back and refunded my money.....guess maybe i need to trade one of my ar's for a good fal
 
I have a long history of buying toys for expensive hobbies, I scuba dive, I shoot, I used to be an avid photographer, I used to date a lot, etc. Every single time I bought something 'on the cheap', I ended up spending more money in the long run than if I'd simply saved and got higher quality to begin with.

I want a MBR too (right now I have an excellent collection of poodle shooters). I'm saving my pennies for an M1A from West Texas Ordnance. I plan on buying once, and being able to hand it down to my grand kids.
 
You can make a CETME into a fine MBR, if you are willing to fix Century's build problems, or are willing to return the rifle to them until they get it right.

I have a CETME that I am thoroughly satisfied with. But I had to tinker with it to get it there.

There are certainly more FAL add-on parts, etc. than there are for CETME. But the CETME parts are out there. There are enough of them.

I shopped CETME vs. FAL and chose CETME on merits. Less recoil, better ergonomics (that get's argued a lot--I like my CETME's feel and balane and wood better.)

Do a search, there are many threads on this subjet.
 
I have a CETME and I absolutely love it. It's a ton of fun to shoot, and it's been udderly reliable, narry a hicup. Mags are cheap as dirt also, I think they only really make 20 rounders, but you can't have it all. Mine was abotu $350, came with two twenty rounders. Heavy gun, but much fun. It shoots exactly where I am, so as long as I do my part, it'l do it's. Next on my list might be an FAL, who knows. I'm not overly partial to one gun or another. I love'm all!
 
"It's basically a H&K G3 with Spanish furniture"

Actually, I do believe (correct me if i'm wrong) the CETME came along before the G3. The G3 was based on it's design correct? I think it's still a Spanish gun with American furniture and an American reciever etc. Again, correct me if i'm wrong.
 
The CETME is a Spanish rifle designed by Germans after World War Two (they escaped down there) then re-imported and tweaked into the G3 for the German Army and manufactured with some modifications by H&K, which is why they look so similar.


I owned an CETME for a week (waiting to trade it for a 9mm S&W) and put 150 rounds through it. Solid rifle and it'd do well, but I prefer the FAL above all other .308 battle rifles, except MAYBE the AR10 or M1A (though the FAL feels more natural and shoots better for me generally, the AR10 has slightly better ergonomics and the M1a has the best sight picture).
 
How about a Saiga in .308? If you want a durable rifle, a Kalashnikov is hard to beat, and they are purportedly pretty accurate. I think they are less than $300 new.
 
If you're interested in FALs check out http://www.ohiorapidfire.com/, I bought mine from them for around $560 and it is built very well. Unfortuantely the barrel seems to be slightly over timed causing my groups to be about 3 MOA to the right of center with my rear site cranked all the way over to the left. It has a one year warranty on it so I plan to send it back to them in about a week. Other then that it's a great rifle. At http://www.danssportinggoods.com/ you can get 15 20rnd mags for 50 bucks along with some pretty good deals on Australian surplus .308. Parts are also widely available and inexpensive.
 
Saiga!

I agree with Roscoe. You should look into a .308 Saiga. The only negative is a lack of full-capacity magazines.

greg
 
WASR 10 hicap - usually about $300, AK style, will take hicap mags. Saiga a good deal in any caliber. SKS a good basic rifle.
I'd be happy with any of these - my HDR is a Mosin Nagant M38 right now, which beats harsh language!:D
I had a CETME - worst POS I ever had. GIt had a ground bolt, worn out rollers, and an out of spec reciever. Gah.
 
Lots of good info!

I don't really want a Saiga/WASR/etc in .308 - I thought that the SAR had too much recoil (not in terms of pain, but in terms of controllability) in 7.62x39.

Those Ohio Rapid Fire FALs look nice. Anybody have any experience with the carbine model.

Sounds like the CETMEs are too much of a gamble... too bad.
 
SAR-1 recoil is quite controllable with proper technique (like an FAL or AR-15). Compared to shooting a full-auto AK on the Group Therapy setting (as I've heard it called somewhere once...) it has no controllability issues (and AKs on auto are controllable too if you know what you're doing and keep bursts short).
 
I can get good imported M-14 mags in 20 or 30 round capacity for $20-$35 each.

Originals are somewhat higher.

I don't understand the obsession with so-called "full power" cartridges. At 400 meters, a 5.56 retains 260-680 ft lbs of energy depending on load. This is comparable to .45-10mm-.357 and is more than enough for most targets and events.

I save my .308 for long range or heavy cover. Which means it stays in the closet here in my urban home.

Both are "Full power" for their respective engagement criteria.

By all means have a .308. Just have an idea where and how you'll use it. More is not necessarily better just 'cuz. More is better for specific purposes.

Personally, I detest the FAL and the G-3. The M1A is well worth the money.

I've seen domestic G-3 builds for about $500.
 
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