So much for sleeping tonight.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Id like to Hear in more Detail the time When the Police Rolled up Also.
Did you Still have the Pistol trained on the Perps, at what point did you lower the Gun, How did you "make safe" ?
 
I don't recall seeing in your post if the cops let you keep your pistol that night, or took it with them.
 
Sorry guys, been a little busy today.

Ok, so, to clear up some elements of what happened:

The glass and door were possibly thick enough to at least severely restrict the penetration of a .25, but not abnormally strong.

The woman didn't whisper, but she didn't speak near as loud as she was through the door.

The police rolled up in two cars simultaneously. The first came in closer to the first building across a through-way, then promptly cut diagonal, while the second pulled parallel to my building, but a little further behind the first:

Building 1
______________
..........\ <-car 1
--- <-car 2
______________
...** perps * me
Building 2

The guys jumped out of the first car remarkably fast; to be honest, I don't know why people resist police or attempt to fire on them. A split second hesitation, and they've got the upper hand. They really got into a tactically superior position VERY quickly, using their cars for cover. Add to that their blinding spotlights, and any suspect is at a disadvantage from the get-go.

The driver of car one immediately focused on me, weapon drawn upon seeing mine, while his partner kept his eye on the no-goods while providing cover. I am quite certain that my center mass was directly in his sights, there's little doubt of that. They made no advancement on me UNTIL I had already dropped my weapon. They issued repeated verbal commands to lower my weapon, etc, which I followed to the letter. I later saw at least one of the responding officers with a shotgun of some type, but I'm not sure if he was with the first two cars to respond. Car 2 focused on our unlucky friends.

When they told me to back down and drop the gun, I took my left hand off the gun, put it up in the air and kept the gun pointed at the methies. Slowly with my right hand, I flicked on the safety before I lowered it and dropped it from waste level sideways and parallel to the ground (last thing I wanted was a muzzle of dirt; I still am not sure why or how I thought clearly enough to do this). Once it landed, they ordered me to the ground -- I put my hands on my head, took two steps to the side from my gun and got on my knees. Officer 1 (driver) advanced toward me at that time, while officer 2 kept me covered. Officer 1 cuffed me while I was on my knees, took me to his cruiser and frisked me pretty thoroughly (like he probably could have guessed my tailored measurements thoroughly). No matter, just a spare mag on me, but crap ID is in the room. Didn't matter, they took my hotel key card and got my wallet from my room. Probably went somewhat on alert when they saw my Mosin Nagant background on my laptop.

By the time I was being cuffed, another car pulled up, and a 4th when I was being loaded into the cruiser for holding. The supervisor (Sargent) showed up probably no more than 5-10 minutes later, but it seemed like an hour.

They started to take my gun, and had it, the ammo, and 2 magazines in 3 separate evidence bags, but the supervisor told them to give it back to me -- they didn't need it (no shots fired), and he was sure I didn't want to be 3 months without it while it was processed and used as evidence in court that really wasn't relevant to the perps. I wasn't being charged with anything, so there was another reason not to hang on to it. He did suggest I wait until they were gone before I reload the mags and load the gun, though. He joked that I would probably have it tucked in my boxers... nightstand condition one wasn't too far off (I usually leave the slide back, mag in the gun at night. Now it will stay loaded and on safe at all times, most likely).
 
You did pretty good. Probably would have been a better idea to stay indoors- there's a lot to be said for cover & concealment as well as staying out of view of your neighbors whose stories may or may not do you any good.

For the 911 call I'd go with a script that hits address/location, situation, your description & hang up. A lot of things that happen in the heat of the moment could be recorded & used against you in court. Likewise, staying on the line & talking could do the same thing & will slow your OODA loop processing for the important stuff like the meth heads wanting to crush your head.

While everything turned out well enough for you I'd also advise not talking the police without a lawyer & analyzing what you did that was good & what could be improved. Maybe next time it'll be 3 or more of them trying to jump you (going outside extra bad). Learn from what you did right & wrong & hopefully you won't have to apply those lessons.
 
Buddy Rabbit: They carry a Smith & Wesson .40 -- I didn't catch what model Smith, though.

Apparently the KY State Police carry a 10mm...:eek:

Edit: also, I don't think they all thought it was inadequate, just that one guy (he was a bit younger than the others, probably late 20's). But then again, I'm in my 20's, and I recognize that a good 1911 is hard to beat, and shot placement is key. A bottomless 9mm is useless unless you can hit something.
 
Probably went somewhat on alert when they saw my Mosin Nagant background on my laptop.

Too bad you didn't have one of those handy to protect yourself. Nothing says "leave me alone" like the fireball from an M44 :p
 
I dont think they held him in booking, they kept him in crusier for a short time.

I believe that this incident with the followup post regarding how it ended specifically after the LEO's rolled up should be read by everyone. It's about as perfect a ending one can expect to have.

A battle won is one without a shot fired. Best victory of all.
 
No I did not "go downtown." I was just held in the cruiser as the scene was secured and evidence gathered.

I think one thing that has helped me is the fact that my best friend is a LEO, and we hang out and talk guns a LOT. He's showed me some training videos on his computer, best and worst case scenarios, and we've talked about the "ideal" arrest for a police officer -- i.e. what the best, most compliant person would do to keep from getting shot unintentionally.
 
My concern is that (if, hypothetically) as the BGs were fleeing, (having NOT obeyed your orders) would you be satisfied that your fire would not be deflected by the thick double-pane glass as you attempted to gun them down?
You generally shouldn't shoot people if they are fleeing.
 
I second not shooting fleeing people. But if they try to fire a parting shot over the shoulder or something... boom that's it.
 
Flea--Where in KY was this? I used to live there and travel to the state frequently. Also KY State Police carrying 10mm is not something I was aware of they should all be carrying .45s now since they had recalled all the 10mm S&W's for being excessively craptastic. I do know most of the local cops where I was carried Glocks in .40 S&W as I recall 23s but I can't be 100% sure on that detail.
 
I think Maryland recently up-gunned to either .40 or 10 mm, not sure which. There is alot of upgunning in caliber going on these days.
 
Our LEOs around here carry 40 S&W. State Police carry 357 Sigs. Every department has it's own view on make of gun, but calibers are fairly uniformed from county to county.
 
You generally shouldn't shoot people if they are fleeing.

Yeah -- you start popping rounds at fleeing bad guys as a private citizen, and the police response is likely to be rather less supportive than in this scenario.

Great account, by the way -- very well written and explained, and sounds like you handled the actual situation quite well.
 
Thank you for posting your expirience.

Overall I think you did very well, with just a few minor things you may want to consider for the next time.

1) Stay in the room and DO NOT open the door until L.E. arrive

2) Keep the phone line open

Inside your hotel room you have a more legally defensible position, as well as tactically. The open phone line, and it's recording can be used in your favor in the event of a trial. Yes, it can be used against you, but it can also be used for you.

I hope there isn't a "next time" for you, or me, but since it's already happened once it could very easily happen again. Take care and stay safe.

BikerRN
 
Interesting read (I'm not qualified enough to even say good job).
I would ask - if there is a peephole and you can see who it is, and they aren't your people, is there any reason to respond at all?

If you weren't targeted, presumably they were knocking on every door looking for someone to answer.
 
When I was reading this, I was thinking, "Stay in the room. You shouldn't go outside at all." But on the other hand if you waited for him to come inside, you would have had little choice but to shoot and probably kill him. That would have been a much worse outcome in a lot of ways.
If the guy sees a gun, and still insists on busting down the door, shame on him. That's pretty much ironclad proof that the victim was indeed the victim. Stupidity is its own reward... sometimes accompanied by a bullet to the head. Don't endanger yourself to protect people who mean you harm.

Other than going outside, I think the guy did fine.
 
Very good job. While i agree with most that it was probally a bad idea to go outside at all. The flip side is that "you" were the one that confronted the perps. If you had not, just think of the young lady in the room next to you, or the elderly couple in the room after that. Just another story to prove that armed citizens are neccessary.
Great Job.
 
Glad it turned out as well as it did.

For my armchair quarterbacking support:

1. I honestly can't decide if it would have been better to leave the phone on or not. Having a jury hear "Get on the ground or I'll shoot." might not be good if things went bad.

2. Open or not open the door? If he would have waited and let the guy with the crow bar bust in the door, he probably would have had to shoot them. In this scenario he didn't have to fire. It would be a tough call given the guy had the means to get in.



I'm going on a solid 2 week trip soon, thanks for reinforcing my decision to go through the pain to take my CCW with me.
 
Very well handled. I will read pages 2 & 3 more closely but I, too, don't recall reading that you actually opened the door. When did you?
 
conwict said:
...I, too, don't recall reading that you actually opened the door. When did you?

here ya go...

Flea said:
...Not knowing if he had a gun in there, I aggressively moved toward the door and he very quickly moved his hands up above his head and started getting down on the sidewalk. I pulled the door open while keeping the gun trained on him and he got on all fours...
 
Despite my misgivings, Im leaning towards shouting at the BG while hanging up on 911..

Consider a typical hotel room. You got what? 12 feet of room and a bathroom maybe? The phone probably was either between two beds or over by the tv not more than 8 feet from the dang door.

My next question becomes this...

Hotel phone trees with all the rooms, how did 911 know which room to send officers to? Does the front desk know when a room punches 911 (Or gives a &^%$ ?)

Forgive me for stupid questions but this article has make me think of things Ive never thought about before.
 
Hungry Seagull:

It probably was a mobile phone.
I don't think I've used a landline in a hotel except to contact the front desk in 5 years.

EDIT:
At this point, I've got the cell in one hand with 911 dialed, but haven't hit send. I've read about this type of setup before, and I say to myself "****, this is really going to go down tonight." I glance back through the peephole where I can see her standing, obviously nervous or high, as her hands are shaking. I decided that whether it was coke or adrenaline didn't really matter. (Condition Orange at this point.) Through the peephole on the left side of the door (the door is in the corner of the room, with a large window to the right), I caught a glimpse of something move. Yep, fears confirmed. (Condition Red)
She again knocks. I pull back from the door in case they're packing. Hand clenched on my 1911 now at my side, I hit send on my cell phone.

Also - to paraphrase a great quote from THR - Sounds like you called 1911, it has a faster response time!
 
Last edited:
Right, Thank you for the reminder. I called 911 from Cells alot of times. Those things are good to have. 911 would find my position in the world and "Be right there" without requiring me to explain where Im at.

Sorry for dragging the old style phones into the mess. I have not been in a hotel in a long time and have forgotten much about those expensive things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top