Transient/crackhead walks in my apartment and starts watching TV in my roomates room

[joey93turbo]

2nd incident in two weeks. I can't believe anyone would live around here without proper protection. You can read my thread about the other incident if you search.

So tonight I'm sitting up in my room with my girlfriend watching TV. My roomate comes in my room all choked up, gets ready to say something, looks at the door, shuts it, and says "There's a dude in our living room man, he's cracked out on something". I tell my girlfriend to go in my bathroom and lock the door, along with the other girls who were downstairs who ran up the stairs behind my roomate. He said the guy just pushed past the girls and into the apartment as they were getting ready to leave. I grab the P226 and chamber a round, holding it at ready behind my back, and told my girlfriend to call 911. Knowing there was still a girl downstairs by herself, I told my roomate to open my bedroom door. The man is standing outside my door in the upstairs hall between my roomate's room and mine and begins to enter my room. I yelled "get out of my house! leave! I'm on the phone with the police!". He turns around and goes into my buddies room, sits down on his bed and starts watching the TV that was on. My roomate yelled this time "get out of the house now!". He gets up and walks past us to go down the stairs. I'm keeping my distance knowing how devestating a knife can be at close range. He walks down stairs and grabs a fifth of liquor off our cabinet, his shoes from the landing (read below), and walks out the door. My roomate goes after him, grabs the bottle, runs inside, and locks the door. Knowing my neighbor is a 25 year old female who was moving out tonight and knowing that she probably had her door open, I peeked out the door to make sure he didn't bother her at all, which he didn't.

I give 911 an excellent description of the man and in less than four minutes they're at my apartment with the man in the back of their car. They told me he's a local and he has mental problems and said they're going to take him somewhere else and release him.

Now about the shoes. We JUST had our carpets cleaned this morning and he actually TOOK HIS SHOES OFF before walking on the carpet. Imagine that

 

[ZenMasterJG]

yikes!!
you know, shotguns are pretty cheap, and that beautiful chuk-CHUK sound of a nice 12 gauge is DARN convincing. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, but my cheap-as-heck Savage a few feet away in the closet still makes me feel better, cuz as your post shows, you never know...

 

[LBTRS]

"holding it at ready behind my back" I missed the behind the back "ready" position when they taught it in my defensive handgun class. I'll have to attend another class to learn the "behind the back ready".

Just kiddin' ya Joey, glad everything turned out ok. BTW I've been waiting for some more of your "RH" stories so let's hear another.

 

[joey93turbo]

Tonight is DEFINATELY an eventful night in the ghetto. I just got off the phone with 911 for the second time.

I hear tires screeching then three gunshots. Once I see the lights outside and get off the phone with 911 I see it happened not 100 yards from my place.

 

[joey93turbo]

Lol what's an "RH" story?

The reason I held it behind my back is because I didn't want him to see the gun and escalate the situation. If he was put on the defensive and armed, he could've panicked. He seemed to be pretty peaceful.

 

[Matthew748]

I'm glad everything turned out OK. Something similar happened to my brother last week. At 2 AM he was awoke by some drunkard pounding on the glass patio door to his first floor apartment. He called the police, but was worried that they guy was going to break in before they could get there, so he went around the building and bushwacked him from behind.

 

[El Tejon]

1. Lock your doors;

2. Look into a better neighborhood.

 

[TallPine]

For EllockyourdoorsTejon:

He said the guy just pushed past the girls and into the apartment as they were getting ready to leave.

Locks only work when the door is closed.

 

[joey93turbo]

In this case everything ended somewhat ok, nobody was hurt and nothing was taken, but I keep wrestling with myself wondering if I did the right thing because it could have gone so much worse.

Had the guy been armed or violent in my upstairs hall, something I'd have no way of knowing until after the fact, I'm thinking:

Maybe I should've commanded him down to the ground and held him at gunpoint for the police, for our safety?

What if he was violent and we just let him go so he could victimize someone less prepared than myself?

What if I would've commanded him down on the ground and he didn't comply, but didn't SEEM to pose a threat? what if he just didn't care cause he was so high/drunk? at what point do you shoot someone?

He could've EASILY had a knife and he had multiple opportunities to stab someone (not me I kept my distance), especially when my roomate went outside after him to get his fifth.

What would you have done? How would the police have handled it if I did hold him at gunpoint until they got there?

I'm really beatin myself up over this...

 

[Jeff White]

Joey,
Ya done good . Holding the EDP at gunpoint probably wouldn't have been the best option. What would you have done if he failed to comply? There are those here who would argue that you could have made a citizens arrest and been given the same protections on the use of force as a peace officer has, but in the end would it have been worth it if you'd have had to use force to make him comply?

Nothing wrong with keeping your weapon out of sight but ready either. I've walked up on cars with my weapon hidden behing my thigh but ready for use during traffic stops if things seemed hinky. Monadok used to teach a stealth deployment option for their PR24 baton. I don't know if they still do, have used an ASP for years and haven't needed to certify on the PR24 in a long time.


Jeff

 

[TearsOfRage]

Just out of curiosity... how can you tell if someone is a crackhead just by looking?

 

[joey93turbo]

When you've lived where I live it's not hard to spot a crack user. The glossed over, bloodshot to the point of almost black eyes. The chapped cut lips. The way they move and shake. There are many indicators that I've learned from growing up here.

 

[odysseus]

He said the guy just pushed past the girls and into the apartment as they were getting ready to leave.

Having lived in some touchy areas in the past myself, I say you need to focus on how NOT to have that happen. All of you need to learn situational awareness better, since if what you said happened is true - something else is later going to happen to you, and possibly worse.

Preventing a breach like that should be a big focus for all of you. That just plain should not happen, period. The only way someone is going in should only be by force - and then you have another problem.

 

[thorn726]

man i keep seeing this thread title, read the story a few times, and others like it i guess this happened before-

keep thinking of the sat night live cartoon with ellen degenres' girlfriend as detective.
the whole thing sounds so much like a speed freak tale from here as well.

super mega high people are crazy.

 

[c_yeager]

Just out of curiosity... how can you tell if someone is a crackhead just by looking?

Burned lips combined with generally poor hygene is a pretty dead giveaway. They usually come with shakes and stutters and cant form a sentance as well.

 

[Jeff White]

Thread reopened with political content removed. If you wish to discuss the ramifications on society of the mainstreaming of the mentally ill inot society and how that relates to RKBA please feel free to start a thread in Legal and Political. We don't discuss politics here in Strategies and Tactics.

Jeff

 

[thorn726]

ahh, i was kinda wondering what happened.

wanted to add super high crackheads have really dilated glazed eyes.
really odd sight, once you see it they start sticking out.

 

[GRB]

joey93turbo,

All the what ifs can really make your hed spin. I can answer one of them though and answer it pretty easily:

What if I would've commanded him down on the ground and he didn't comply, but didn't SEEM to pose a threat? what if he just didn't care cause he was so high/drunk? at what point do you shoot someone?

You usually can shoot someone when they reasonably have led you to believe that they are about to either kill you or another innocent or that they are about to inflict you or anothe rinnocent with serious bodily harm. The test is reasonableness in most states, in that any reasonable person would have been able to draw pretty much the same conclusion.

You did all right. Too bad the police would only pick him up for a release somewhere else. He will probably be back. The thing that someone else mentioned about solving the problem by looking to the root cause of how he got into your place is a good idea. I mean - keep the doors closed and locked. It has to help somewhat. Get together with all the residents and have a bs seession about what happened and what EVERYONE in the house can do to help prevent repeats.

As for this:

Now about the shoes. We JUST had our carpets cleaned this morning and he actually TOOK HIS SHOES OFF before walking on the carpet. Imagine that

Nothing to shabby about that, at least the guy had some sort of manners. Now make sure to delouse the carpet.

 

[foghornl]

Mr. Crank-head would find himself face to face with Mr. 1911 when trying that trick at MY front door.

I don't have a link to it, but I heard recently that there was a "home invasion" gang doing a stunt like this...first one, appearing to be rather harmless, but confused/disoriented, would get the attention of resident, then the others would come crashing in right behind Mr Crank-head. You guess what happens next.

 

[TODD3465]

I agree with foghorn. Any freak like that comes in my house is gonna get an attitude adjustment.

 

[MikeIsaj]

how can you tell if someone is a crackhead just by looking?

It's a fun game to play while watching Cops. Guess what drugs the bad guy is on.

Drugs have some predictable effects on people. Attitude, alertness, physical condition, twitches, shakes, and appearance all can add up to give a pretty good idea of what a person has been using. Crack heads have a distinct look and bearing to them. Everyone has immitated a pothead at one time or another. Meth makes people aggressive and beligerant. Angel Dust does almost the same thing. Heroin is hard to tell but, they also exhibit unique characteristics over time. When I book people I use their reactions to fingerprinting to verify what they've told me about their drug use.

 

[pete f]

many years ago we had a similar situation when a druggie followed a college roomate into the apt, and then started to yell at us to get out of his house. I yell back at him and he turned to look at me and roomie hit him with the louisville slugger from behind the door. Lights out right now. Cops hauled him out by the heels, letting his jaw smack every stair tread on the way out.

In your situation, I would have presented the gun at first contact. I would not have felt bad if I was forced to shoot him. His actions of manhandling the women and grabbing the liquor ( a good weapon) would have cleared me to shoot.

 

[38SnubFan]

I'm suprised as well that they're just going to release him somewhere else. The BG/Mental Case really should be checked out at the local ER, and possibly transferred (involuntarily) to a mental health facility for further examination and treatment.

You did good, based on the end result: Nobody hurt, everyone lives to tell the tale.

If someone broke in my home and refused to leave after multiple requests to cease and desist, or surrender, and continues to move around my dwelling with disregard, I'm going to assume he means harm and I'm firing the shot.

PA does allow lethal force in regards to home intrusion. I know not all states/jurisdictions have the same rights, however.

Furthermore, like others have said, you had best figure out why he even got inside in the first place, and take care of that problem first (doors locked, etc.)

-38SnubFan

 

[Lupine]

Portland Tweaker Blues

Joey? Um, (gulp), where in Portland do you live? Not that it really seems to matter anymore. I live in a somewhat "upscale" neighborhood, and have had quite a few adventures with midnight prowlers.

Here in P-town, we have a huge problem with tweakers (meth heads). We also have a huge problem with overcapacity jails. Tweakers might spend a couple hours in jail--just long enough to get booked--and then they're back on the street again. Seriously. There is NO deterrence factor.

A good friend lives just east of 82nd Ave, in Felony Flats. One day, she called everybody she knew at about 8am. "Hey, the meth house across the street's getting busted. Come over! Bring lawnchairs!" I missed it, but a whole crowd went over to watch in bathrobes and slippers, Mimosas in hand, and even got the guys in HazMat suits to do a Devo dance for them.

For the next few days, I was present as my feisty little friend yelled at the tweakers who'd show up, looking for their fix. "They're busted, dumbass. Now get the F*CK off my street." Her husband had fun dressing up in various old Halloween costumes--Viking helmet, very real battle axe, Tarzan loincloth--to further scare them off. It helps to be a little crazy to clean up the crazies.

Seriously, the cops can and will only do so much. You've gotta use creativity and initiative to get rid of these losers. Our street has, for the most part, had a reputation for being pretty vigilant, but as I've written, even we have had more problems since this whole Meth thing has devolved.

Others in our fine city have set up surveillance cameras and posted neighborhood watchmen to take notes and keep records, submitting this data to the city. The squeakiest wheels get the grease first, and there's a long waiting list of neighborhoods trying to get rid of known and documented meth labs.

Have fun,

Lupine

 

[Cosmoline]

Sounds like stumptown has gone down hill since I was there in the 80's. Frankly what the monsters did to the so-called Pearl District was worse than anything a horde of tweakers could have done. The demise of all my beloved, funky old warehouses and cast iron buildings left me in near tears when I drove through their earlier this year. It looks like a bad version of NYC now. Hideous! I think Vera should be taken out and shot. Literally.