So Tell Me About Structural Loading....Gun Related....REALLY I SWEAR.

[cslinger]

Ok so I want to get a firesafe for the guns, but I don't want it downstairs, I want it upstairs.

Now what I am thinking is I would prefer to have a two small 8-14 gun safes. These usually run about 450lbs or so. Add another say 150 pounds of guns and we have around 600lbs for a 14 gun safe.

Now this 600 pounds is going to be spread out over say a 2.5 to 3 foot x 2.5 to 3 foot area. I am guessing here so bear with me.

How can I determine if this is too much weight concentrated in a small area for the second floor of my house. Figure if two safes are involved they will be in completely seperate areas.

Would a sheet of relatively thick plywood laid under the the safe distribute the weight any better?

I have your standard Truman Show, white bread, new construction, suburbia retreat, complete with fence and dog.

I am trying to put this into terms that I can undertand. It is not uncommon to have say a 350lb person sit on a relatively heavy piece of furniture with no ill effects at all. So I am wondering just how much stress the second story floor of an average house can take.

I am going to contact the builder to see what they say but figured I would see what kind of info I can gather from our diverse membership. I am sure at least one of you has thought about this and maybe even done it.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Steve Smith]

I'll take a swing

Not a Mech Engineer, but I think I have a pretty good head on my shoulders.

If the plywood is the same size as the safes, you'll have the same pressure, but you probably already knew that. Even if it is larger, the plywood will compress and you'll be back to square one again. A long and wide steel plate would work better, but you probably don't want that.

Practical exerience:
I had a modular home for several years and installed a safe in it. Those things aren't exactly the log homes of yesteryear. I found a load bearing wall in the room I wanted the safe and put it in the corner of the load bearing wall and on outside wall. My safe weighed over 750 empty...add MANY match guns and it was over 850 easily. I was SURE I'd have floor and wall damage. When I moved (was kicked out by x wife?) out, I took the safe and braced myself when I went to look at the wall and floor. I was amazed...NO damage.

I suggest you find the best spot possible, and maybe do a spot check the first few months to see if you have any early damage.


I'm sure Chicken Little will be along any moment to tell you that in a fire, the safe will surely come crashing down and fall on your big toe, preventing you from escaping the inferno. Tell Mr. Little to get a life.

 

[Navy joe]

You need to find the building code for your area and see what minimum floor load rating is required. Like you just guessing I want to say that residential floors have to be 30psi minimum. That means the floor should safely carry 30 lbs per sq inch. So, find the footprint of the safe in inches squared and divide the weight of the safe by that area to find what psi load it exerts. That assumes a flat bottom. If you put it on feet or carpet savers or whatever the load will be carried by that area alone.

I'd have to say you are safe , otherwise you could not fill a second floor bathtub and take a bath without falling through. Or let two fat people sleep together upstairs etc. 600lbs really isn't that much weight for a structure to carry. The bigger isue is getting it upstairs without becoming your chiropractor's new best friend. I say hire a professional for that.

 

[cslinger]

The bigger isue is getting it upstairs without becoming your chiropractor's new best friend. I say hire a professional for that.


Which leads me to my next question. Free beer and 100 rounds of ammo to the first 5 THR members who volunteer to lug these beasts up to the second story of my house.

I will, of course, have to supervise and will be unable to actually help in the manual labor portion of the operation but I will be taxed mentally durning my commmand and control operations.

Just kidding.

Thanks for the info. I had planned on contacting the builder to get the floor loading info and I still will I just wanted to make sure my logic wasn't completely flawed.

Chris

 

[jsalcedo]

I know some apartments won't let you put a waterbed on the second floor due to structural considerations but a gunsafe would weigh considerably less. You may want to consider
placing some 2x4's underneath it that are a a few feet longer
than the safe width wise that may distribute the weight better.

 

[willyjixx]

yeah but a water bed spreads its mass over a greater area. the gun safe concentrates it on a single area.

also what happens if you ever gotta move dude!

 

[No4Mk1*]

Floors may be rated to 30 psi max pressure, but I don't think that means you can load an entire room at 30 psi. If you could then by doing the math, a 14' by 14' room could support 423 Tons in your upstairs bedroom. They must also limit total weight.

A friend of mine was fighting a fire last week when a sink fell thru the floor and hit him on the head.

 

[Steve Smith]

A friend of mine was fighting a fire last week when a sink fell thru the floor and hit him on the head.

As an ex-firefighter, I'd say he was in there too late.

 

[forquidder]

Weight distribution

If the safe sits flat on the floor, I would have no problem just putting it there and loading it up. If you do the math, 600 pounds distributed over a 2.5'x3' area comes to 1.8 pounds per square inch, not very much. If the safe is on legs, put a square of 3/4" plywood under it. I'm a carpenter and builder and the weight you are talking about is nothing to worry about in the average house.

 

[Bowlcut]

Well seeing my weight and the weight of around a normal large chair....most floors will hold it just fine Chris. If you want a test...Ill come over and stand in the corner and hold your guns we will see if anything sags other than my pants

Ill be more than happy to help ya lug it up stairs if ya want. Can bring over the works nice sturdy 2 wheel dolly and we have a few heavy duty furniture 4 wheel flat dollys. Say me and you are man enough to get it upstairs. I helped dad move a 10+ foot long set of cabnets down to another house, that was around 400lbs Id say and dang awkward. Ive carried washers up stairs before...So Ive got experience. Usualy all I ask is a good meal and a hardy thanks.

 

[erikm]

I am not a mechanical engineer, but I'll also take a swing.

I'm assuming that your house is an average american house, meaning wood frame (which wouldn't pass standards over here AFAIK). In the Netherlands most buildings have concrete slab floors and so don't have this problem.

You should start out by locating the floor beams in the room you're putting the safe in. You can then spread the expected load by laying sections of 2x4 across the beams. Crossing 4 beams and centering the safe on the 2x4s should spread the load enough. Now getting the safe up there is another story which largely depends on your stairs .

Consulting a structural engineer if you still have doubts isn't a bad idea.

Cheers
ErikM

 

[AZ Jeff]

Modern residential homes in the US are built to withstand a "live load" of 200 lbs/sq. ft. A "Live Load" is defined as stuff that can move, like furniture, appliances, people, etc.

Believe it or not, a gunsafe is considered part of the live load, although it's hardly going to move itself!

600 pounds spread over an area of abou 14 square feet as you describe is about 43 lbs/sq. ft. That's not even CLOSE to the live load limit.

As others have noted, there are other objects in your house that have similar or higher live loads than a gunsafe. This would include a refrigerator, a waterbed, some bookcases, etc.

 

[Billy Sparks]

After putting two gun safes in my house I wouldn't help even if you offered New York Strip. That is the only time I have seen my father cuss quite that much....

 

[cslinger]

I am a bit of a masochist at heart so what the heck pain is good it's God's little way of telling me I am still alive.

 

[benEzra]

While having all the guns upstairs is good as far as access goes, do keep in mind that if you have a fire and your safe falls through the floor(s), the impact may mess up the fire protection insulation, particularly if it's already very hot. Just something to think about.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I know some apartments won't let you put a waterbed on the second floor due to structural considerations...

That's what landlords want you to believe. The truth of the matter is that they're afraid of leaks, but aren't honest enough to say so.

 

[Baba Louie]

Design buildings for a living and doing a house right now...

Live load = 40 PSF (not psi)

Dead Load = 22 PSF

Total floor loading calculated at 62 PSF

Safety factors up that number a bit. Floors will deflect to a point.

If I was designing a Storage Room for Filing cabinets loaded to the max with paper and not much air, the basic live load goes up to 125 PSF.

Try to get your safe near a (floor) load bearing wall as opposed to out in the middle of the floor space. Kind of like an old upright piano.

There are ways mentioned to spread out the load by placing 4x4's perpindicular to the floor joists and spanning three or more and placing safe on 4x4's.

But if you've ever had a party in your place where the ladies were wearing high heels, their "point load" was up around 100 lbs (or more?) per sq. inch when they were walking about. If you have ever felt your floor bounce when someone is walking around, you may want to reconsider adding a large load in one specific spot.

Adios

 

[Cameron Lamont]

I hope this will not be too technical;

Install the safe in your desired location.
Put all your firearms in the safe in the usual manner.
Then simply climb onto the safe and jump up and down.

If you don't end up downstairs you should be ok.

Cameron

 

[larry_minn]

As said use a corner with a load bearing wall under it. I personally spent @ $12 for a floor jack. I put two 2x8 planks about 5' long across 3 floor joists. Then put floor jack in center with a 1' metal plate. Not that I needed it but I KNOW that safe will NOT go thru even if I tripple its weight.
I have toyed with making/having made a base for safe. WIth drawers for ammo storage and a little larger then safe to raise it up. Only problem is you can't anchor it to floor.....
BTW if in a fire don't let it drop on your toes.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I did a little research on this very subject before having the movers move the safe into the new house... up two flights of stairs. I swear, it was like watching the 10 Commandments with the slaves in Eqypt building the pyramids. But they got it up there.

And, I too, have the safe (about 600 lbs filled I think) against a major load bearing wall/support beam. Took a little work and consulting with the architect, but worth it.

 

[Ian]

Well, a 2.5 ft by 2.5 ft safe has a footprint of 6.25 square feet. 600 pounds evenly divided across that gives you a loading of 96 pounds per square foot, or 0.66 psi.

Being really generous, I could say that my feet have a total floor-contact are of 0.5 square feet. I weigh 160 pounds, so when I walk around I'm loading the floor with 320 pounds per square foot, or 5 psi.

So, I wouldn't worry about the safe. Then again, I'm not a civil engineer...

 

[PAshooter]

Originally posted by Baba Louie:

Live load = 40 PSF (not psi)

Dead Load = 22 PSF

Total floor loading calculated at 62 PSF

You sure 'bout those numbers? I couldn't stand on a floor rated to only carry a 62psf load (each of my feet is less than a square foot in area and I weigh more than 124lbs... I'm not saying how much more). Somehow I think you dropped a decimal point somewhere... or surely my house would have collapsed into a pile of rubble by now.

 

[280PLUS]

the safe is falling!! the safe is falling!!



mines in the basement

you knew SOMEONE was going to say it...

its on concrete, it shouldn't fall through.

i'm hoping anyways

i didnt put it down there due to weight concerns or even because it might fall through in a fire.

i put it there because fire burns UP and , should there ever be a serious fire at my house, it will not be exposed to the most extreme temperatures of the fire and posibly survive with all my stuff intact

thunked that one up all by myself, too!



as far as weight, it wouldnt fall through the floor but does have the potential for deforming it

forgot to mention, mine was only about 450 so i moved it in by myself...

had a bowl of wheaties that morning

the SO was in awe