So what WAS this???

[Ephraim Kibbey]

What do you think this started out its life as before someone antiqued it and apparently tried selling it as an original:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=520144403

 

[col.lemat]

Not colt style stamps used for serial number. Back strap should not be cut for a stock.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Nice patina for a fake. Col LeMat is right about the bottom of the grip.

 

[bannockburn]

4v50 Gary

I agree; a very nice and even patina. I knew of a fellow who dabbled in "aging" original Colt revolvers so as to appear that they were possibly used in the Civil War. He believed this made them more desirable to collectors and would possibly fetch a higher price when sold. He had all sorts of chemical formulas and homegrown recipes for speeding up the aging process and giving the gun an authentic looking patina on the metal surfaces.

 

[Berkley]

Pietta 1851 Navy, original markings removed, replaced with spurious Colt markings and artificially aged finish.

 

[frontiergander]

says in the ad that its a fake.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have always wondered how people thought they could make a profit by the time they buy a firearm, either spend 15 or 20 hours or pay for the work, and then sell the gun for more than they have invested. I have completed several Pedersoli kits and the time spent filing the original markings off, refinishing the furniture, and stamping any new markings on would leave very little room for profit unless the fraudster is willing to work for peanuts.

 

[WestKentucky]

Some folks get their jollies by passing off their "artwork" as an original. They get a rush out of their work being so good that they fooled someone. Welcome to a screwed up world.

 

[StrawHat]

...Back strap should not be cut for a stock...

The factory used whatever was in the parts bin when they were fitting revolvers. THere are quite a few originals fitted this way.

Kevin

 

[swathdiver]

Someone used mustard and salsa it looks like to age that.

One can still see where they scratched out the Italian markings. They also had a letter stamp kit and went to town with it but it's not the same as the originals. Fools!

 

[yugorpk]

A lot of re-enactors like their gear to look original . Its the whole defarbing culture. No one is trying to pass that off as original.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

The SN looks like it was crudely done with an very large (compared to Colt) individual digit stamp set but the barrel address looks to be a more professional job. (Try finding a small underlined "L" in a stamp kit!!!) Did he buy two separate size fonts or did he start with an already addressed barrel (2nd gen, ASM or Uberti???)

Other than being at the wrong angle, the "Colts Patent" on the frame is also much better work than the SN.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The aging doesn't look well done.

Someone probably dipped it in vinegar or something. Looks too even.

 

[kBob]

from the listing text......

"The advantage you have over the last person who purchased this is you are aware that it is a fake."

What's the problem with this listing?

We have discussed how to defarb and apply "patina" on the BP/THR board several times.

-kBob

 

[frontiergander]

scan readers most likely LOL. It even has it in the title sooooo? whats the problem? its advertised as a fake.

 

[swathdiver]

If I understood the ad correctly, the first time it was sold, it was thought to be genuine. The second sale was legit with full disclosure. Did I miss something?

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

swathdiver - That is exactly my understanding as well. It apparently was in a previous auction and was not revealed as a fake. Perhaps the current seller was the victim and is honorably trying to recover as much of his investment as possible.

MY interest in posting MY question was simply "what WAS this" revolver before it was turned into a fake original Colt 1851 with early barrel address. Was it a Colt 2nd or 3rd Gen, an ASM, a Pietta, an Uberti, etc. and on what do you base your opinion???

Since there is a large skill difference in the barrel address and the serial number stampings, I am curious if the faker might have started with an already factory addressed barrel then added the frame inscription and serial numbers.

So far we have:
1. Berkley - Pietta 1851 Navy
2.

 

[Crawdad1]

With scratched out Italian markings then it ain't a Colt but it could be a lot of them, ASM, ASP, Palmetto, Uberti, Pietta.

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Looks to have the hated "Pietta Tail" to me!

I don't mind it, but others deplore it.

 

[Berkley]

Looks to have the hated "Pietta Tail" to me!

I don't mind it, but others deplore it.

Love it or hate it, it's unmistakeable and quite apparent.

 

[swathdiver]

I have seen original '51s with the so called pietta tail. They happen to fit my hand quite well, but so does a C-Series '51!

I don't think this is an ASP as their trigger and bolt screw holes are closer together. Pietta often equips their civilian sixguns with grip straps made for the shoulder stock as this gun has. Not sure if Uberti or ASM did this as well. The ones I've come across were done proper and Pietta does it both ways.

I'd say Pietta.

 

[expat_alaska]

Pietta Tail

BigHunt 1981:

Looks to have the hated "Pietta Tail" to me!

I don't mind it, but others deplore it.

Berkeley:

Love it or hate it, it's unmistakeable and quite apparent.

swathdiver:

I have seen original '51s with the so called pietta tail.

et al.

I have many pics of variations of 1851 Navy revolvers, original and replicas (especially Uberti's ), showing the so-called "tail". I think what most people miss is the exagerated curve of the trigger guard creating a longer bottom to the pistol on the Piettas. When Val Forgett first approached the Italian manufacturers to create a replica 1851 Navy, he came upon so much flack that the NRA would not place ads in the American Rifleman about his product because the collectors of original pistols did not want fakes on the market, and that is why the Pietta "tail" happened, as well as other Italian manufacturer's differences. Val Forgett's original pistol was made via a 1851 Navy Parts Pistol sent to an Italian factory. I have the original info on this but I have to look it up. Bear with me on this.

 

[StrawHat]

...Val Forgett's original pistol was made via a 1851 Navy Parts Pistol sent to an Italian factory. I have the original info on this but I have to look it up. Bear with me on this...

expat alaska,

Is this what you are looking to find?

http://rprca.tripod.com/GunThatStartedItAll.htm

Kevin