So what's the general consensus on the FN Five-seveN?

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

I won't go into any of those things Kachok...

I will reiterate for the 100'th time that nobody hear is claiming superiority for the 5.7, only that it is effective.

I will also say that low recoil on full auto fire = even lower recoil in semi auto fire = faster follow up shots than any other center fire pistol.

Also, the same ability to penetrate armor allows the 5.7 to penetrate hard barriers better than most center fire pistols.

If you have not done so, go back to page 5 and look at the 5.7 shootings. There are LOTS of them, and the damage is hideous.

In many of our opinions, those are all things which are of great benefit to civilians.

 

[Kachok]

Oh I was not saying that is was not effective. I was correcting a few people that were claiming that it was more powerful then the 9mm and .40cal which is just plain silly. Though I would not count on penatration through barriers, anyone who has any hands on experence with the 5.56x45 or other high speed "tumbeling" rounds knows that they yaw and fragment within inches of striking even soft barriers, understanding penatration in the real world is much more in depth then you would think.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

The 5.7 pistol is only capable of generating 400 foot pounds at the upper limit of its standard SAAMI pressures. That is as powerful, but certainly not more, than most commercial 9mm / 40 / 45 loads.

The penetration issue is totally bullet dependent. A bronze solid is not a V-max, and neither will behave like a bullet pulled from M193 NATO ball. The 5.7 pistol can effectively use all of them for different applications.

 

[Ben86]

I am not so sure that instances of unsuspecting victims being killed by 5.7 are great examples of stopping power. Lethality, sure. But those weren't exactly determined adversaries in those pictures.

I think nato would adopt armor piercing 9mm ammo before they would adopt a whole new platform and caliber just to gain armor piercing ability with a tool that is hardly used in combat. The handgun is more of a back up gun in warfare.

 

[Kachok]

The 5.7 pistol is only capable of generating 400 foot pounds at the upper limit of its standard SAAMI pressures. That is as powerful, but certainly not more, than most commercial 9mm / 40 / 45 loads.

The penetration issue is totally bullet dependent. A bronze solid is not a V-max, and neither will behave like a bullet pulled from M193 NATO ball. The 5.7 pistol can effectively use all of them for different applications.

Standard 5.7 ammo makes 255 ft/lbs, max loads aproach 400 ft/lbs
Standard 9mm makes about 340ft/lbs, max loads aproach 500 ft/lbs
Standard .40 S&W makes aprox 400 ft/lbs max load is just over 600 ft lbs
Even if mass/momentum and cross section had nothing to do with it the 5.7 would still be well below the 9mm and .40 cal.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

The ss197 most people think of as "standard" is actually loaded much lighter than all other types of 5.7 ammo. It is a intentionally dumbed down.

You seem like a smart enough guy, so I'm sure you already know that. Basing your comparison off of that is a bit disingenuous, as is bringing up bullet cross section, since that is also dependent on the type of bullet being used (and different in the SS197 Vs. standard 9mm / 40 loads).

Trying to compare it to other cartridges makes it nearly impossible to make valid comparisons, because the 5.7 cartridge is so radically different than conventional pistol rounds.

The round should be judged instead by what it does in test media, and applicable real life shootings. The platform should be judged based on its handling characteristics and mechanical capabilities. When you do that, you find a capable cartridge and a capable platform - that doesn't make it "ultimate", nor does that diminish the abilities of any other cartridge/platform. It is what it is.

I am not so sure that instances of unsuspecting victims being killed by 5.7 are great examples of stopping power. Lethality, sure. But those weren't exactly determined adversaries in those pictures.

Ignoring the myth of stopping power... You are assuming that all those people were both innocent and unnamed. I'm sure some of them were, but to say that none of them were neither, or that all of them were either, is not only unsound logic but flies in the face of how we know criminal gangs operate.

It also makes no sense to assume that a criminal wounded by a round would be determined to fight back after being shot, but that a random sampling of 'regular' people would just throw in the towel under the same circumstances.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

OK I have never had to shoot and kill anyone, so I cannot say from experence that the 9mm kills faster then the 5.7mm, but I have been a hunter for 23 years, and if you compare bullets of identical KE but with vastly different caliber/mass there is never any comparison. A 223 has more KE then your factory 44 mag loads, I have seen the effects of both on game and there is simply no comparison. While the 223 makes a poor/marginal deer bullet, the 44 mag has taken large dangerous game in Africa (including cape buffalo) and the world record polar bear was taken with the 44. You can talk all you want about energy dump and "hydrostatic shock" but results like that speak for themselves.
To anwser another post the 9mm is in fact capable of more energy then the 5.7 like my choice the 115 Carbon which makes 466 ft/lbs I understand there are some even hotter then that. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=113438
I am no rookie when it comes to the study of terminal ballistics. There is no magic bullet, energy, mass/momentum and caliber determine wounding potential, bullet construction brings it all together, and I would happily debate anyone on that.

I hesitate to get into a discussion with you because you have obviously either not read the previous pages in this thread or are purposely avoiding (like most people do that have an agenda against the 5.7) specific data posted that answer nearly all of your questions.

But why not...

A 223 has more KE then your factory 44 mag loads, I have seen the effects of both on game and there is simply no comparison. While the 223 makes a poor/marginal deer bullet, the 44 mag has taken large dangerous game in Africa (including cape buffalo) and the world record polar bear was taken with the 44.

Okay, you have "stories" about the 5.56x45mm being a marginal deer bullet and I have pictures of the 5.7x28mm's weakest bullet (the SS197) taking deer down with lung shots ("liquefying" a large channel through the lung tissue in the process).

Pictures win.

You can talk all you want about energy dump and "hydrostatic shock" but results like that speak for themselves.

Okay I will. The 9mm is a notoriously poor tissue disrupter and over-penetrator. When dealing with conventional bullets like the 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP, you need to make the biggest hole possible because you aren't going to tumble. If you are lucky you could curve a bit with the HST or Talon. With those rounds I would personally go with the biggest which is the .45 HST/Talon. The 9mm kind of gets left out in the cold.

Now, the 5.7x28mm S4M round with 2,600fps and 405 ft-lbs of energy, hits the target and tumbles, dumping all of its energy in the vital areas of what would be a human's "kill zone". Instead of trying to describe the effectiveness of the S4M, I'll let Brassfetchers do the talking..

I bolded it so you don't miss it this time.

Summary

As tested, both 5.7x28mm cartridges offer lethality that is on par with or slightly greater than a .45ACP 230gr jacketed hollowpoint. This is accomplished through an intelligent usage of the pitch/yaw cycle inherent to any spin-stabilized projectile – the nose of the 5.7mm bullets travel through the first 2” of ballistic gelatin in a nose-forward orientation, which minimizes drag. As such, the very impressive amount of kinetic energy lost by most expanding bullets in the first few inches of penetration have little or no effect on the human target and actually decreases the effectiveness of expanding ammunition in incapacitating a target.

Conversely, the FN SS-195 and the Elite Ammunition S4M offer performance quite similar to the tested .45ACP, with considerably lower recoil and ammunition weight, coupled with a significantly higher weapon magazine capacity.

We feel that the Elite Ammunition S4M can be seen as a “+P” version of the very effective 27gr 5.7mm FMJ (SS195) and we have no qualms about recommending this cartridge as a feasible replacement to the more conventional .45ACP handgun, for use against human attackers

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

what is tangiable and provable is that there is no messure of performance in which the 5.7 is superior to the 9mm or .40 S&W

Incorrect.

the 5.7 round is faster thus flatter shooting and more accurate over distance.

The 5.7 is lighter thus allowing more rounds to be carried.

the 5.7 has more capacity thus allowing the shooter more shots at stopping the threat.

The 5.7 S4M has created 4+ inch wound channels in tests.

The 5.7 was designed NOT to over-penetrate reducing potential collateral damage.

The 5.7 with the appropriately loaded round yields more energy than virtually every major factory 9mm round. In fact, the S4M yields more energy than the top law enforcement round Federal HST +P which is listed at 396 ft-lbs.

I see absolutly no reason the 5.7 would yeild anywhere near the soft tissue damage of more conventional handgun calibers

If you want to be taken seriously, you can't lob softballs like this one at us...

This was taken from a police journal:

Briefly, Elite Ammunition also makes personal protection cartridges in this caliber called S4, which we felt deserved testing in an abbreviated fashion while we had all the personnel and equipment present. These rounds also would penetrate one Level three Vest, and unlike the Devastator, the S4 was found to deform and tumble, shredding its way along. Exit holes were significantly larger than the Devastator. In large part, beside the tumbling action, this was due to velocity. No this isn’t a typo, but the S4 left the handgun each time close to 2600 fps. To put it into perspective, whatever handgun you now carry on duty, the S4 flies TWICE as fast and goes through Class III vests. It was the general opinion of three physicians-two military surgeons with oversea deployment and a trauma surgeon who operated on roughly a thousand gunshot wounds, that nobody could survive an S4 torso hit unless it took place right in the operating room- and even then it would be at best a toss up.

the FBI ballistics lab acceptable penatration for human targets is 14" almost all defence ammo for 9mms 40s and 45s are designed to distribute their energy within that zone.

Quoted from Brassfetcher report:

As such, the very impressive amount of kinetic energy lost by most expanding bullets in the first few inches of penetration have little or no effect on the human target and actually decreases the effectiveness of expanding ammunition in incapacitating a target.

The ONLY advantages of the 5.7 is it's ability to defeat soft body armor (LE Version) and it's minimal recoil which makes accuracy on full auto easier, neither of which is of any real benifit to civilain shooters with semi auto firearms.

Dude, did you read any of this thread? You are very misinformed about the FiveseveN pistol.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

Oh I was not saying that is was not effective. I was correcting a few people that were claiming that it was more powerful then the 9mm and .40cal which is just plain silly. Though I would not count on penatration through barriers, anyone who has any hands on experence with the 5.56x45 or other high speed "tumbeling" rounds knows that they yaw and fragment within inches of striking even soft barriers, understanding penatration in the real world is much more in depth then you would think.

The 5.7x28mm was designed to replace the 9mm Luger. I am more than confident carrying my FiveseveN. I'm well informed on its capabilities.. lol

Though I would not count on penatration through barriers, anyone who has any hands on experence with the 5.56x45 or other high speed "tumbeling" rounds knows that they yaw and fragment within inches of striking even soft barriers, understanding penatration in the real world is much more in depth then you would think.

You obviously haven't watched any videos of Elite Ammunition rounds being fired into level III vests and penetrating them like butter have you? The confidence you portray in the above statement makes you look very silly to those of us that have seen what the FiveseveN can do with our own eyes. Very very silly...

I assume you are just trolling at this point...

What "real world" do you live in? Wait.. I know, it's a fantasy world where the FiveseveN sucks..

 

[PabloJ]

The problem is Yugo or Romanian TT can be had for <$300 and high quality 'Kool-Aid' gun like H&K long slide expert .45 for $900 plus shipping. Despite its aging design the TT with hotter ammo is equal shot for shot to the PPSH impressive performance indeed. That spells bad news for FN 5.7. No hard feeling but when it comes to pistols I will take H&K over FN anytime.

 

[Kachok]

First of all I DID in fact read the previous posts. I also reserched the 5.7 long before this thread ever opened, I also looked up the ballistic gel tests for the 5.7, the results were nothing impressive, a shallow med-width wound canal.
OK G|0cKbYtE you want to talk terminal ballistics explain to me where the 5.7's free lunch comes from? And why this magic effect does not show up on ballistics gel tests? If you are diluted enough to compare record setting loads of the 5.7 to whatever low power 9mm factory load you can find you are a bias source of information and not credible, factory 9mm ammo goes all the way up to 500 ft/lbs http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=641328 . The 9mm round that I use makes 466 ft/lbs which has alot more juice then your LEO (Law Enforcement Only) S4M. Oh and my girlfriend's XDm 9mm holds 19+1 in the factory magazine so there goes your vastly superior capasity, and before you bring up the 30rd extended mags I can get those too. I am well aware that the original and LE version of the 5.7X29 ammo will pass clean through soft body armor, but I am also under the impression that the new ammo comeing out for it has lightly constructed enough to fail aginst soft body armor. If the 5.7 was such a perfect manstopper with some magic killing effect why do so many departmants still issue those old worthless .40 S&W?
The 9mm bad reputation comes from the 115gr silvertips that used to be standard issue, the silvertip had a major weakness, it was lightly constructed and came apart early and only penatrated about 9" funny now we have another bullet designed to come apart in the first few inches and it is the new magic manstopper........I think not.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The 9mm is a notoriously poor tissue disrupter and over-penetrator.

Okay, Thats not true, a good 9mm HP will disrupt as much tissue as a .45 ACP. Compare the videos here to the FiveseveN: http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1950.htm For the most part it does the same as FiveseveN in terms of penetration and disrupts plently of tissue.

 

[Zesty]

Has anyone here seen the episode of Larry Vicker's show where he had the FN Herstal representative on? The entire 30-minutes was devoted to the 5.7x28mm round. Showed the FiveSeven pistol, P90, and talked about their advantages and disadvantages.

The actual representative from FNH made it abundantly clear that the round is NOT designed for anything other than a DEFENSIVE role.....like back-line personnel such as medics and communications technicians.....people whose firearm handling skills were not quite up to the same level as the average infantryman. He mad no bones that the only real role it had was in the P90, as a "get off me gun". I guess lesser skilled soldiers tended to get better hits and use it better than an M4, plus it is more compact and maneuverable....they also aren't as worried about the lack of effectiveness as a front-line soldier. Point is, it was NEVER designed as a front-line "assaulting" weapon.

And before I get flamed, please understand that I have paid the price of admission. I own an IOM model and actually think it's a cool pistol. I just think it's funny how all these fanboys claim it is equal or better than 9mm, when the actual representative of the company that makes the weapon and developed the round claims otherwise....ironic.

I don't think it's a bad gun, it fills a role nicely, but that role is limited, and is NOT a defensively-effective one. Please don't take my word for it, I'm sure you can find the video clip somewhere on the web. When in doubt, I like to bypass all this forum jive and go to the source. The truth will set you free.

 

[481]

Has anyone here seen the episode of Larry Vicker's show where he had the FN Herstal representative on? The entire 30-minutes was devoted to the 5.7x28mm round. Showed the FiveSeven pistol, P90, and talked about their advantages and disadvantages.

The actual representative from FNH made it abundantly clear that the round is NOT designed for anything other than a DEFENSIVE role.....like back-line personnel such as medics and communications technicians.....people whose firearm handling skills were not quite up to the same level as the average infantryman. He mad no bones that the only real role it had was in the P90, as a "get off me gun". I guess lesser skilled soldiers tended to get better hits and use it better than an M4, plus it is more compact and maneuverable....they also aren't as worried about the lack of effectiveness as a front-line soldier. Point is, it was NEVER designed as a front-line "assaulting" weapon.

And before I get flamed, please understand that I have paid the price of admission. I own an IOM model and actually think it's a cool pistol. I just think it's funny how all these fanboys claim it is equal or better than 9mm, when the actual representative of the company that makes the weapon and developed the round claims otherwise....ironic.

I don't think it's a bad gun, it fills a role nicely, but that role is limited, and is NOT a defensively-effective one. Please don't take my word for it, I'm sure you can find the video clip somewhere on the web. When in doubt, I like to bypass all this forum jive and go to the source. The truth will set you free.

I agree with you. After having shot both paper and varmints with the 5.7 cartridge, it is a "fun" gun/caliber combination, just not one that is suitable for the purpose of SD.

After this little "tidbit"

As tested, both 5.7x28mm cartridges offer lethality that is on par with or slightly greater than a .45ACP 230gr jacketed hollowpoint.

was offered up, it became apparent that there is a clear "emotional over-investment" in the 5.7's terminal performance and capabilities by some and that logic was "out the window" much as it always is with the "caliber wars".

For a more reasoned and factual perspective on the cartridge's terminal capabilities, this link

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

offers a realistic appraisal of the 5.7's actual terminal capacity by an established authority in the field of terminal ballistics.

Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

No "magic bullet" can make up for the 5.7's diminuitive potential.

 

[DmL5]

The actual representative from FNH made it abundantly clear that the round is NOT designed for anything other than a DEFENSIVE role.....like back-line personnel such as medics and communications technicians.....people whose firearm handling skills were not quite up to the same level as the average infantryman.

Wrong.

Actually, the round was designed to replace the 9x19mm in NATO service. It would have already done that by now, if not for Germany/HK and the 4.6x30mm stalling the process. That is established fact. We went through this on page five.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061016...-defence.com/2006/Utilities/article.php?id=40

FN has been marketing the P90 and Five-seveN to counter-terrorist/special forces groups for decades now, and that role is where they have achieved the bulk of their sales (both weapons are in use in 40+ countries).

Design intent aside, there is no functional difference between an MP5 and a P90 with regards to "offensive" work. In the end, it really doesn't matter what the weapon was intended to be. It is what it is: a compact submachine gun with a large magazine capacity, low recoil, and penetrative capabilities.

I just think it's funny how all these fanboys claim it is equal or better than 9mm, when the actual representative of the company that makes the weapon and developed the round claims otherwise....ironic.

FN Herstal has always maintained that the 5.7x28mm has greater wounding potential than the 9x19mm. See, for example, FN's original P90 promotional video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyJEEISVTd4

(skip to 2:30)

For a more reasoned and factual perspective on the cartridge's terminal capabilities, this link

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

offers a well informed/researched, reasonable appraisal of the 5.7's actual terminal capacity by an established authority in the field of terminal ballistics.

Try to stay relevant.

The individual in question has not even tested any 5.7x28mm load introduced in the last 15-20 years. What he thinks about an ammo type not offered to civilians (SS190) or an ammo type discontinued 20 years ago (SS90) is utterly irrelevant. Everything written in the internet forum post you linked is completely unsubstantiated by the author.

Actually, the statement that the 5.7x28mm performs "at best" like a .22 LR or .22 WMR is provably wrong and idiotic; Brassfetcher has independently tested a number of EA's loads in calibrated ballistic gelatin. One example:

http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/5.7x28mm_Elite_Ammunition_ProtecTOR_II.wmv

EA's Pro II load, fired from the Five-seveN pistol, perforated a 16-inch block of calibrated ballistic gelatin, and the bullet is visibly expanded on exit. Even the .22 WMR from a rifle (http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page2548.htm) is not capable of doing that unless a non-expanding projectile is used.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The actual representative from FNH made it abundantly clear that the round is NOT designed for anything other than a DEFENSIVE role.....like back-line personnel such as medics and communications technicians.....people whose firearm handling skills were not quite up to the same level as the average infantryman. He mad no bones that the only real role it had was in the P90, as a "get off me gun". I guess lesser skilled soldiers tended to get better hits and use it better than an M4, plus it is more compact and maneuverable....they also aren't as worried about the lack of effectiveness as a front-line soldier. Point is, it was NEVER designed as a front-line "assaulting" weapon.

The P90 is a submachine gun, submachine guns are meant for self defense in war ONLY such as those that operate strictly in vehicles or those that carrying a full size rifle is too much. Handguns in war are the same thing, they are personal defense to get you back to the rifle you should have had in the first place and not for fighting wars. Whether the caliber is 5.7 x 28 or 10mm.

M4Carbine.net is an extremely biased website filled with snobs, I don't trust it for any info. After seeing them badmouth the PX4 as a POS and something that jams every magazine when its a proven gun through many tests and many satisfied owners.

Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

No "magic bullet" can make up for the 5.7's diminuitive potential.

Despite gel tests showing that it MUCH MORE wounding potential than .22LR from a rifle and equal wounding capabilities to 9mm JHP.

 

[Kachok]

The 5.7 has more wounding potential in military context, NATO is limited to FMJ ammo which means that to make a decent amount of soft tissue damage you need to make your bullets yaw. The relativly short and stuby 9mm projectiles do not yaw as well as spritzers. So in as far as the military goes I would have to agree that a fragmenting bullet would in fact cause more tissue damage through a human body seeing as the 9mm would expend the majority of it's energy on the far side of the target. However throw HP 9mm bullets into the mix for us civies and the whole picture changes. The superior energy, cross section, and momentum give the 9mm a noticable advantage, and the 40 S&W is a whole class above that.
Now here is the be all end all of this dabate, the published speed and energy for the 5.7 are messured with the P90 which I beleve has a 10.35" barrel, when the same rounds are fired in the 4.82" barrel of the pistol expect at leased a 20% loss in speed, now ballisticly you have an overhyped 22 mag. You are in the low 200s ft/lbs pushing a 40gr bullet, they are darn near identical. The 22 mag never earnd a reputation as a man stopper....not even close, so what magic makes the 5.7 vastly superior? IT IS HYPE, the pointed bullets in sub-gun length barrels zips through soft body armor.....so what, my 17HMR does that too, but you won't see me promoting it as a self defence weapon. Can it kill.......sure a 22LR can kill, but that does not make it superior to time tested proven rounds. Anyone care to explain to me why the 5.7's 40 gr bullet is superior to the 22 mag at near identical speeds? This should be funny

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I guess you keep forgetting to watch the videos on Brassfetcher. It shows 5.7 x 28 performing as good as 9mm JHP.

I'll post it again since you missed it: http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1950.htm

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

FiveseveN and factory rounds vs 22 Magnum RIFLE (24in barrel)

http://youtu.be/0npFXEHfeA0


FiveseveN and factory rounds vs 9mm

http://youtu.be/ERxZrzigoK4



The FiveseveN compares ballistically to a 22 magnum fired out of a rifle (24in barrel)..

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/23/myth-busting-22-magnum-vs-5-7x28mm/#comments

Be sure and read the comments...


Lots of tests with the FiveseveN in the following link:

http://www.eliteammunition.net/multi_media_page.html


Too emotionally invested in the FiveseveN eh?

Some need to read the following Brassfetcher report very carefully if they want to see the FiveseveN outperform the 230gr 45ACP...

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Elite%20Ammunition%20S4M%20Kinetic%20Energy%20Performance%20Summary%2016APR11.pdf



Now, I have posted enough facts in this thread alone to refute all the criticisms and misstatements about the FiveseveN thus far. But how much do you want to bet they will all be regurgitated again shortly after this post?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Just Copy paste, makes life easier

 

[Zerodefect]

The Brassfetcher review seems like a Shill review. They show respectable results but....

It looks like the .45 out performed the 5.7 by a wide margin in those gell blocks.

 

[Kachok]

Saw the videos, not impressed, using phone books as a test medium is not an accurate representation of soft tissue. I have compared ballistic gel tests which while not perfect are a hack of alot better test medium. The test with the 22 mag vs the 5.7 was plain silly, most HPs in 22 mag are designed for varmint hunting so hence you see a larger hole at first and a smaller hole as it travled deeper, no suprise there. Fire the same projectile out of each at the same speed and you will see identical results PEROID! There is nothing magic about the 5.7 nor any other projectile. Terminal ballistics are a function of bullet design and impact energy/speed/momentum, no youtube video will persuade me that they can somehow bend the laws of physics.
Now that I have done a bangumup job of thrashing the 5.7x28 let me now say a few good things about it. The compact and potent disign of the P90 packs alot of firepower in a small package, it is as handy as an UZI and adds the versitility of piercing Lv 3 body armor while still retaining adaquate terminal ballisitcs to incapacitate reasonably quick. Combine this with it's high rate of fire, magazine capasity, and VERY low recoil and it becomes a little monster on full auto fire. If I were to choose a compact versitile weapon system for close quarters fire fights the P90 would certainly rank near the top of my list. And that is why it is used by the secret service to protect the Presedent

 

[ErikO]

The only words I have for this fine firearm are "friggin Expensive!"

 

[481]

Try to stay relevant.

The individual in question has not even tested any 5.7x28mm load introduced in the last 15-20 years. What he thinks about an ammo type not offered to civilians (SS190) or an ammo type discontinued 20 years ago (SS90) is utterly irrelevant. Everything written in the internet forum post you linked is completely unsubstantiated by the author.

Actually, the statement that the 5.7x28mm performs "at best" like a .22 LR or .22 WMR is provably wrong and idiotic;...

I have.

You've proven nothing, lack the "gravitas" to refute the source(s) cited (there are several authoritative research papers in that link that describe the relevant concerns plaguing the 5.7 and its lackluster performance) and resorting to namecalling (calling Dr. Roberts' position "idiotic") suggests the presence of that "emotional over-investment" in someone's chosen caliber so typical in these discussions.

Once again, no "magic bullet" can turn the 5.7 into something (a reliable SD round) that it ain't.

 

[481]

Too emotionally invested in the FiveseveN eh?

Sure.

The phenomena is typically manifested in the form of someone making several consecutive posts bearing numerous anecdotal claims (news reports, for example) and advertisements and attempting to pass them off as having more weight than actual documented research.

Happens all the time in "debates" like this.