Social Security checks could go south of border

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rock jock

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Sergio Bustos
Gannett News Service
Dec. 10, 2003 12:01 AM

WASHINGTON - U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing an agreement that would allow millions of Mexicans to return home and still collect U.S. Social Security benefits.

The controversial proposal that could transfer hundreds of millions of dollars in Social Security payments south of the border has riled some Republican lawmakers. They worry that it could reward scores of undocumented Mexican immigrants with a U.S. pension, draining the country's Social Security trust fund at a time when its future solvency is in doubt.

"Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration," said GOP Rep. Ron Paul of Texas. "How many more would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life?"

Supporters of the proposal argue that Mexican immigrants, documented and undocumented, pay millions, if not billions, of dollars in payroll taxes and have the right to claim Social Security benefits.

"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," said Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty."

Final approval of any U.S.-Mexican "totalization" agreement is up to the Republican-controlled Congress. The Bush administration supports such an accord as a way to improve U.S.-Mexican relations.

And Mexico is prepared to administer an agreement, Social Security Commissioner Jo Anne Barnhart told lawmakers at a congressional hearing earlier this year. U.S. officials said they are satisfied that the two countries could exchange information easily on potential Social Security recipients. Details of how to put the agreement into effect still need to be worked out.

Under a totalization agreement between two countries, workers could accumulate enough credits to qualify for Social Security benefits in either country.


20 other accords

The federal government began pursuing such agreements in 1977 to help make Americans sent abroad by their employers eligible for Social Security benefits. Today, the United States has pacts with 20 countries, mostly in Europe. Congress has never rejected an agreement.

In 2001, the federal government paid out $173 million in Social Security benefits to about 89,000 foreigners living abroad, a fraction of the $408 billion distributed the same year to 45 million U.S. residents.

But a U.S.-Mexican agreement would dwarf the accords with other countries, critics of the proposal say. They point out that the combined number of recipients from those 20 countries is tiny compared with the potentially vast number of Mexican citizens who could become eligible for Social Security.

"None of those countries have public policies that encourage illegal immigration to the United States," said Republican Rep. John Hostettler of Indiana, chairman of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security and Claims.

Social Security Administration officials estimate that about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. They predict that by 2050, 300,000 Mexicans would collect $650 million in benefits a year.

But a recent General Accounting Office report said those numbers failed to account for the presence of many potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants and their families.

Census figures show that the United States is home to 9 million Mexican citizens. More than half, about 5 million, reportedly are in the United States illegally, according to federal estimates.

Barnhart assured lawmakers that undocumented immigrants do not get Social Security benefits.

"That's a myth," she said. "As is the case with our existing agreements, a totalization agreement with Mexico would not alter current law on this issue."


Proof of eligibility

That's true, but a provision in the Social Security Act allows undocumented immigrants to get Social Security benefits if the United States and another country have a totalization agreement. Those immigrants would have to prove they had paid into the U.S. system.

Former undocumented immigrants also could become eligible if they later become legal residents. A recent investigation by the Office of Inspector General at the Social Security Administration found two such cases.

In one, a Mexican man who used his father's Social Security number for nine years in the 1970s claimed after becoming a legal resident in 1989 that he was owed benefits. He began collecting benefits in 1999.

And a Mexican woman who worked illegally under an invalid Social Security number for six years in the 1990s later petitioned for credit. She began receiving disability benefits in 1999.

"(The agency) does not consider the work-authorization status of the individual when they earned the wages," the inspector general's report said. "It only considers whether the individual can prove he or she paid Federal Insurance Contribution Act (FICA) taxes as part of this work."

To qualify for Social Security benefits, Mexicans must prove they worked in the United States at least 18 months. Payments are made on a prorated basis, depending on years worked in the United States. Those who work at least 10 years automatically would qualify for full benefits. Those who also worked in Mexico for a specific period of time could collect benefits in their home country, too.

U.S. companies and their American employees working in Mexico also would benefit under the agreement. By not having to pay Social Security taxes to the Mexican government, Social Security Administration officials estimate American workers and their employers would save $134 million each year.

David John, a Social Security expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation said he's disappointed the proposed agreement with Mexico has been twisted into an emotional debate over U.S. immigration policy.

"Sadly, this whole thing has been hijacked by people on both sides of an issue that must be resolved in a totally different arena," he said. "It shouldn't be part of the discussion in putting together a boring technical agreement between two countries."
Our social services policy is getting to point of absurdity. Let's just support the whole world.
 
'David John, a Social Security expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation said he's disappointed the proposed agreement with Mexico has been twisted into an emotional debate over U.S. immigration policy."

Me too.

John
 
I'm going to start off topic and hope not to hijack the thread:

Social Security Administration officials estimate that about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. They predict that by 2050, 300,000 Mexicans would collect $650 million in benefits a year.

$650 million? That's a big number... I don't want my tax dollars going to fund this. Oh... wait.. that's about $2.75 per American citizen. For a working father with a famlily of 5 that's going to amount to less than $20 per year. For all the political fighting they'll do over that $20 a year I wonder what in the heck they're doing to get the other $18,000 a year I give them back into my pocket.

On topic:

I'm 23. I've been paying into social security since I was 14 and there's no guarantee that as an American citizen I'm going to see that money when I'm 65. I'll have paid in for 51 years and illegal immigrant expect the same rights as me when they work here for part of their lives? No way, no how.

Social security was done to try and give money to the elderly to jumpstart the economy under FDR. We turned into a giant "gimmie" welfare program. It served it's purpose long ago and should have been dropped in the 40's. It was an experiment in communism and served it's purpose. It did it's job and left us with this pitiful pile of crap we have now. Get rid of it. Why in the heck would we extend this "benefit" to non-citizens? Ship the money overseas so we never see it again? No thanks. One dumb idea stacked on another.

Even if you live here you don't have a "right" to my money. If you don't live here you certainly don't have a right to my money. Case closed.
 
"Social Security Administration officials estimate that about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. They predict that by 2050, 300,000 Mexicans would collect $650 million in benefits a year."

If you believe those numbers I've got some desert land in Sonora I'd like to sell ya.

That's one heck of a carrot they're waving there. I'd say apply a 20x multiplier effect, that old government afterburner, and you'll be a lot closer to the truth. Right now we have upwards of ten million illegals, maybe twice that, but the burrocrats are estimating only 300,000 Mexicans would be collecting in 2050?!!! No way, Jose.
 
The Bush administration supports such an accord …
Figures. The Republican leadership can support this bull, but I don't. The Republican leadership also seem to support exporting American jobs to China, India and Mexico. I don't support that either.

All under the pretense of "improving relations", eh? I think there are other more economic (for a few well connected GOP donors) reasons.
 
The Republican leadership also seem to support exporting American jobs to China, India and Mexico. I don't support that either.

I dont know of many Republicans politicians that are ceo's and hold office that are specificly firing or laying off people and setting up shops in china,india and mexico but I sure do like the foreign jobs the Republicans have made in Afganistan and Iraq.:D

I think it has more to do with state problems than federal though both probably have an equal share of responcibility.

now if we could just keep the local jobs local and the foreign illegals out.
 
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w4rma,

Republicans are supporting this to try to get in good with the latino vote.

How about this: Deep Six all coerced Social Security so that I would not be forced to support any fraud like this? You keep your money, I keep mine, and we can donate to whatever charities we like.

Problem solved.
 
"Social Security Administration officials estimate that about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. They predict that by 2050, 300,000 Mexicans would collect $650 million in benefits a year."

Rep. Dana Rohrbacher estimated, yesterday, that the real cost will be $34 billion for the first 10 years. Extrapolated to include the "draw" effect for the handout. :barf: :what: :uhoh: :banghead: :cuss: :fire:
 
hospitals in the lower rio grand valley are going bankrupt due to illlegals going to emergency rooms, the feds are now going to bail them out at a cost of 1b
plus, free medical care to illegals and we have a tough time paying for our
medical cost even with insurance.

With a growing number of foreign born, legal and illegal sending there money
to there home countries, jobs going to third world countries, where does
that lead us in 20 years.?:confused:
 
I'm 23. I've been paying into social security since I was 14 and there's no guarantee that as an American citizen I'm going to see that money when I'm 65.
For full retirement, if you're 23 now, you'll have to work beyond age 65, as the law was changed to start increasing retirement age. (Thank you, Ron Reagan. Or was it Bush 41? :rolleyes: ) And if you keep working and contributing, what you've put in so far at age 23 means NOTHING . . . only the last 20 or 25 years of your contributions will be used in computing your final benefits.

As for transferring $$$ to Mexico, including $$$ to illegal aliens who have to work here LESS time to qualify for benefits than an American will have to . . . all I can say is that I see more and more evidence every day that some people in government hate the USA and are actively trying to harm this country. :barf:
 
For those who still remember the USSR, figure North America as the latest variant. The United States of North America. It will be a loose federation with semi-autonomous regions. What we now call the USA would be smaller, subtracting out for Aztlan, except that we will bleed north into Western Canada. Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, and eastern Washington and Oregon will form the breakaway republic of American Eagle, faithful to the original U.S. Constitution. The rest?--you don't want to know...
 
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