Vicente Fox - US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful'

[all things clay]

Actually, 60 minutes ran a story on this last Sunday. Immigration has Increased since a security wall was erected. The idea was to prevent masses (500 or more people at a time) rushing the legal entry ports all at once. Now they go through what was thought to be terrain too rough to chance it. Many are dying from lack of water as they try to cross through the desert and mountains. The fact is, immigrants are crucial to our economy whether we like it or not. The example on TV was meat packing plants in the Midwest. The govt cracked down and 3500 immigrants were fired from a series of plants. That in turn caused all the plants to shut down because there was too much work and not enough workers. By giving illegals under the table jobs, more Americans keep theirs, IMHO.

 

[Biker]

Actually, 60 minutes ran a story on this last Sunday. Immigration has Increased since a security wall was erected. The idea was to prevent masses (500 or more people at a time) rushing the legal entry ports all at once. Now they go through what was thought to be terrain too rough to chance it. Many are dying from lack of water as they try to cross through the desert and mountains. The fact is, immigrants are crucial to our economy whether we like it or not. The example on TV was meat packing plants in the Midwest. The govt cracked down and 3500 immigrants were fired from a series of plants. That in turn caused all the plants to shut down because there was too much work and not enough workers. By giving illegals under the table jobs, more Americans keep theirs, IMHO.

If the immigrants die in the desert, it's because they made a choice. It's not my problem, and illegal immigrants are *not* crucial to our economy, they pad the pockets of the Corps and Big Ag at the taxpayer's expense. Your post, overall, defies logic. How do Americans keep jobs by giving them away to immigrants?
Biker

 

[Tomcat1066]

I'm willing to bet that more than likely, the plants shut down so the companies that owned them didn't have to pay more money to get legal workers in there. Just my opinion.

Tom

 

[Camp David]

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced as "disgraceful and shameful" on Wednesday a proposal to build a high-tech wall on the U.S.-Mexico border to stop illegal immigrants...

Fine. We'll build a minefield instead! Muchas Gracias Senor stupido Fox!

 

[all things clay]

Right. Either that or the companies dont have enough to pay for legal labor.
Biker I don't think you understood my logic. Given, the 3500 immigrants do take jobs, but when they were fired, the rest of the American workers lost THEIR jobs too. Do you see my point? I live in the southwest, and I see how much migrant workers actually do. They do the jobs a lot of Americans see as too dirty or too far beneath them. I'm not saying we don't have an immigration problem because we do, but there IS some logic in what i say.
Look forward to your responses.

 

[wingman]

I find it "disgraceful and shameful" that a country must send it's people
across borders to find work, at the sametime I find it shameful we have
employers here who hire illegals for there own gain.

Since we no longer live in the 1800's and with a growing third world population we need a very large fence. Controlled, legal immigration
good for us and the world.

 

[The Freeholder]

Ever see the movie "Escape from New York"?

That's the wall I want to see along the southern border.

 

[fourays2]

Right. Either that or the companies dont have enough to pay for legal labor.
Biker I don't think you understood my logic. Given, the 3500 immigrants do take jobs, but when they were fired, the rest of the American workers lost THEIR jobs too. Do you see my point? I live in the southwest, and I see how much migrant workers actually do. They do the jobs a lot of Americans see as too dirty or too far beneath them. I'm not saying we don't have an immigration problem because we do, but there IS some logic in what i say.
Look forward to your responses.

I'm in the southwest too, illegals do the jobs that Americans/legal immigrants won't do for the low wages that greedy employers want to pay. Pay market wages and you get the workers you need.

 

[bg]

The only way it'd be disgraceful if it was built too short..

 

[all things clay]

True. Business owners need to stop thinking with their pocketbooks. A lot of people would rather pay a group of migrants next to nothing for the same quality job than pay a much higher rate for 100% legal workers though. I don't understand that personally, but many try to save a buck whenever possible.

 

[Biker]

Right. Either that or the companies dont have enough to pay for legal labor.
Biker I don't think you understood my logic. Given, the 3500 immigrants do take jobs, but when they were fired, the rest of the American workers lost THEIR jobs too. Do you see my point? I live in the southwest, and I see how much migrant workers actually do. They do the jobs a lot of Americans see as too dirty or too far beneath them. I'm not saying we don't have an immigration problem because we do, but there IS some logic in what i say.
Look forward to your responses.

I'm curious. If 3500 illegals were busted, how many jobs were being done by Americans? Couldn't be that many...
I wonder how many Americans have lost their jobs because many border hospitals have shut down because the illegals won't/can't pay their bills?
In the towns in which these 3500 illegals were employed, I wonder what the cost was to the taxpayers in the form of welfare benefits paid to the families of illegals, medical care provided at taxpayer expense to the illegals at the expense of the taxpayer, and many other incidentals such as printing DL manuals in Spanish?
How about the auto owner who has to eat the repair cost to his vehicle because he/she was involved in an accident with an uninsured illegal?
All of this because the Pols, from Jorge Bush on down, want to pad the pockets of big business at our expense and pander to the illegals for the hispanic vote.
I too, look forward to your response.

Biker

 

[Car Knocker]

Preacherman,

The correct term is neither "immigrant" or "illegal immigrant". They should be properly referred to as "criminals". THAT is what such a fence is designed to keep out!

 

[all things clay]

The problem is Knocker the fence hasn't done any good. The numbers have increased not decreased, even after sinking 20 billion into more border patrol officers, security cameras, etc.

You are right biker. The extra cost to teh taxpayers is enormous. But if the immigrants can find ways around this wall (at a whopping 20 bill.), they are probably going to find ways around anything we build. I think a little more planning needs to go into it before we waste even more money. The hispanic vote is a big part of politics today. No way around that. I mean, hispanics outnumber caucasians in the state of Texas now. I don't see us going through Isolation again like in the Depression Era, closing the borders and allowing no immigration, legal or otherwise. But i'm not the one in charge, so it dont really matter what i think

 

[jsalcedo]

Have any of you well traveled folks out there seen any other countries that have to put up walls to keep immigrants out?

I thought walls are to used to keep people from escaping.

 

[all things clay]

Wow. salcedo hit the nail on the head. I was in Germany when the wall came down. What a good point, I can't believe I missed it.

 

[Biker]

Seems to me that there weren't millions of well armed citizens behind that wall.
Biker

 

[GoRon]

I will sign on to building a wall or fence when we eliminate the minimum wage.

 

[Zedicus]

"The disgraceful and shameful construction of walls, the increasing enforcement of security systems and increasing violation of human rights and labor rights will not protect the economy of the United States," he said.

Choke on it...

Funny how much like the liberals the Mexican .gov likes to cry "Fowl" when they arent getting there own way....

 

[Biker]

"liberals"? Tell me how the Repubs are different from the "liberals" in this matter. Hell, Jorge Bush is the best President that Mexico ever had. Incidentally, I had some 'fowl' for dinner tonight-fried chicken.
Biker

 

[all things clay]

GoRon is absolutely correct. We should eliminate the min. wage because it would increase employment.

 

[Zedicus]

"liberals"? Tell me how the Repubs are different from the "liberals" in this matter. Hell, Jorge Bush is the best President that Mexico ever had. Incidentally, I had some 'fowl' for dinner tonight-fried chicken.
Biker

was refering to Liberals FYI

 

[Biker]

My mistake. I figured that you were blaming the immigration problem on Libs alone.
Biker

 

[Camp David]

My mistake. I figured that you were blaming the immigration problem on Libs alone.
Biker

But... there is more empathy for the illegal aliens by the liberals! The rulings from the 9th Federal Circuit bear this out!

 

[Biker]

Seems to me that a Repub passed the first amnesty bill in 1986.
Biker

 

[Standing Wolf]

The fact is, immigrants are crucial to our economy whether we like it or not.

The leftist extremists are apparently having quite a bit of success in their efforts to confuse legal immigrants, one of America's greatest strengths, with illegal aliens, who are a cancer in our nation.