Some .45 auto questions

[dbshabo]

I apologize cause I know these questions have been asked here numerous times.
I have come to the point where I want to get a .45 auto pistol. I now have a Beretta 9mm that I like and shoot well. However in light of the fact that if I ever need to use a handgun in a defensive situation in what will most likely be at a relatively short range I would like to have as much knock down pop as possible. I've read the arguments that a 9mm is just as effective as a .45. I just don't happen to believe it.

I would like some suggestions on a .45 that I could use as a CCW. I live in Fla so that is a challenge since we don't wear many layers of clothes for the majority of the year. I however don't want to sacrifice accuracy for concealment. I'd rather have an accurate piece that showed than an inaccurate one that didn't. Truth be told I will not carry this gun very much at all, unless something changes to warrant it that is. So concealability is not the most important thing for me.

I read the post today about the #1 best .45 of all time. As a result of that post I looked into the Sig P220. I like the looks of the gun. Does this gun have a polymer frame? I compared it to the CZ 97B and the Sig is 12.2oz lighter. The other dimensions are pretty close. I know the CZ is steel and built like a tank. Is the Sig all steel? Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

Shabo

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

first off, do you have a CCW?


if so, then you can get away with a slightly less concealable gun, since the penalty for someone finding it is not severe.



secondly, you need to have the gun on you all of the time.


thirdly, the main factor in how well a gun conceals is its thickness. this is especially important when you use an inside the wasteband holster.


forthly, a good holster and belt makes guns conceal better. Daniel flory carries a full size 1911 all of the time, and he credits his holster and belt with being able to do that. I know a few guys in florida that also carry full size .45s, so it is possible there.


if you're looking for a shootable .45, you be well advised to look at a 1911, like springfield's milspec (a basic 1911 that doesn't have a bunch of stuff hung off of it).

The Sig 220 is an aluminum framed single stack .45 that's double action with a decocker. it's also on my short list of .45s. In fact, those two guns are my short list of .45s.

whatever you get, make sure you get a good belt and holster for it.

 

[CWL]

Doesn't sound like you are asking for advice as much as product specifications. Sig P220s come in standard aluminum alloy and also stainless steel frames (P220ST). Both aren't bad for FL carry.

This is a big gun for carry, but if you already have a Beretta (92fs?), you should be used to big guns.

Something more concealable might be a single-stack Commander-sized M1911 pistol or even a Glock in .45ACP. These will still allow you carry comfort with reasonable bullet capacity.

I personally prefer a M1911. Everybody has an opinion about which is best, but if you stick to basics and the better brands, just about every one you'll ever meet should work if you practice with and care for it.

 

[krept]

IIRC the P220 has an aluminum frame and the P220ST is stainless (and heavier)

regarding the 9mm and the .45, personal preference. I think you'd be best served renting a P220 and comparing how well you do with it vs. your Beretta.

In the grand scheme of things I'd say your tactics are most important, followed by speed of presentation and ability to hit fast (this is where the platform comes in), then the choice bullet construction and finally caliber of that bullet. i.e. going backwards, a hollowpoint 9mm will do more damage in general than .45 ball... but a hit is better than a miss, but hitting first is even better and first and foremost don't be in a gunfight and if you have no choice, find the hardest cover and the most advantageous position possible.

i personally prefer a .45 BUT i do not have faith in it's ability to stop a bad guy right away. that is why, especially in closed quarter situations like you speak of i plan on multiple shots until the threat no longer exists.

interestin tidbit... recent minor 'incident' at my pad and decided it would be good to have a firearm 'just in case.' I had a choice between a 10+1 shot USP .45 and 8+1 P7M8. Chose the P7 without hesitation. Why? It fits me better and I shoot it better. Caliber choice didn't matter, the ability to make holes was good enough.

just my opinon

cheers

 

[VG]

The SIG P220 has an alloy frame and is around 28 ounces. The P220ST is all [stainless] steel and more like 39-40 ounces, or about what an M1911 weighs. Both are superb pistols. I have a P220 and it is extremely accurate, easy to strip, and reliable. Try any pistol you are considering with a loaded magazine, however: .45 ACP rounds are big and heavy.

I used my P220 at the three day Sigarms Academy Concealed Carry Pistol course. Excellent course, and I liked the P220 even more after firing about 600 rounds under all kinds of circumstances. I've replaced the grips with Hogues as I have big hands and the fit is a little better.

SIG also makes a P245, essentially a smaller P220. They are less expensive than the P220, typically. If you have big hands the grip may be too short or too small. But it is also accurate, reliable, and durable.

You can find ex-police and other used but beat-up P220's for as low as $400, since they've been on the market since the 70's. A fantastic value at that price. Poor cosmetics really lower resale, but carry guns get beat up so who cares? There are many holsters available for them, but High Noon makes a number for this pistol, they have relatively fast delivery, and a great return policy if you don't like it.

This is a great forum, probably the best all-around firearms forum on the net, but www.sigforum.com is allso very good if you are interested in SIGs. Good luck.

P.S. I carry a S&W Chief's Special 9 or a 3913, both in 9mm. Even a P220 is too long and too heavy to carry all the time. I'd guess in FL this is even more of an issue. This is one of the reasons why the S&W Scandium pistols are so popular.

 

[Smoke]

I'm a 1911 fan.

Sub Compact 1911s are nice. I prefer a fullsize frame with a shorter barrel.
Kimbers Pro Carry, Springfield Champion, Colt Combat Commander, etc.

They carry well. Have a history of reliability. To me its the perfect platform.
You can have one gun with the same controls, sights, trigger, in variety of sizes.

 

[10-Ring]

If you have a 92fs & like it, I'd recommend looking at the Beretta 8045 too.

The SIG 220 has the reputation of being a fine weapon & there are many fans on THR that can attest to their quality. What I'd recommend is shoot your prospects before you buy & buy the one that works best for you.

My 2 cents, give the USP & USPc 45 a try before you buy too

 

[uglymofo]

Not trying to start anything here, but I thought the HK USP 45c too wide for CCW. At least, I couldn't hide it. Felt like I had signs pointing to it when I wore it; aside from that, it was a magnificent gun--reliable, never failed, accurate, and light recoil for a short-barrelled 45.

If you're not against SA only, I'd suggest a Wilson KZ45c. It's ideal for the southern humidity(polymer and aluminum alloyed frame w/ various finishes available for the slide, including SS), lightweight for CCW, remarkably managable recoil, 10 rounds (9 in the mag), and a good quality gun. Some will object that the mags are proprietary and expensive, but an extra $20 per mag is no big deal weighed against my life (3's all you really need for carry; 6 or more is ideal for rotation). You can find them used in the $750-800 range and Wilson's lifetime guarantee follows the gun.

 

[Ala Dan]

For CCW Applications-

I perfer the standard, 27 oz. 45 caliber SIG-SAUER P220A.
Reason? Its stone-cold RELIABILITY.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Cortland]

Be sure to take a look at S&W's Chiefs Special .45; it's one of the smaller TDA .45s you'll find. I use it as my primary concealed carry gun and have been very pleased with it both in carry and at the range. It's a little thick in the grip area, but still highly concealable.

 

[DMK]

I would like some suggestions on a .45 that I could use as a CCW. I live in Fla so that is a challenge since we don't wear many layers of clothes for the majority of the year. I however don't want to sacrifice accuracy for concealment.

I also like carrying a full size 1911 IWB. With a good holster that gets the grip tucked in tight against your side, the full size 1911 is thin enough to carry with even just an oversized t-shirt and loose denim shorts.

That said though, I'm looking into finding either a Colt CCO(Concealed Carry Officers), a Kimber Compact or a Springfield Compact as another option to choose from when I wish to be extra discreet. These three guns use a short Officer's ACP sized grip, but still keep the reasonable length Commander sized slide with a 4" barrel. The Colt CCO is not made anymore(unfortunately, not many were made at all), but the Springfield and Kimber Compacts are still in production.

IMO, single stack is the only way to go with IWB concealed carry. YMMV.

 

[VG]

There are a number of small M1911 pattern pistols on the market. Their prices seem to be a lot higher than the price of the SIG P245 or S&W CS45.

 

[BWC]

I know what you mean about having something small for carry in a hot humid climate.

The SIG P245 is a great pistol for CCW. It is small enough that you can carry in warm places, without hassle. And of course it shoots good too !

Now if HK would go and put into production those P7 variants in .45.....that would be a great one for carry !

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have to put in a plug for the Kimber Ultra CDP. I love mine and it replaced a HK USP45C which was, as was stated, a great gun, but still too darn big for my comfort. The Kimber is lighter, also. Another suggestion is to look at the Springfield Micro, which is the same size as the Ultra CDP. It was also not available at the time I got my Kimber, or I would have looked at it myself.

 

[John Forsyth]

by dbshabo,
I would like some suggestions on a .45 that I could use as a CCW.

You just described the Colt Commander with an alloy frame. Currently in production as the XSE LW Commander. Light weight, slim for carry, accurate, 9 rd capacity (8 rd mag + 1 in the pipe), and reliable. It's what I carry.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I've read the arguments that a 9mm is just as effective as a .45. I just don't happen to believe it."

Better get yourself a .50 DE then, and pray that someone comes out with a .60!

 

[ARperson]

The 1911 gets my vote too. Slim for easily concealability. And there are way too many varieties out there for you not to find one that fits for weight requirements too. Also, there are smaller frames and full-size frames with shorter barrels (4" and 3") to help in concealing.

IMO, you can't go wrong with a 1911. Personally, I like the Kimbers.

 

[RepublicanMan]

If you're going to go the 1911 route, be prepared to either spend the money for a quality piece (Kimber etc...) or to have a "good" one tuned. I had a Springfield Arms compact which I would classify as "good" but definitely not "high end" like Kimber and it absolutely refused to feed most hollow points. My options were to pay to have it tuned, sell it or suffer with it like it was.....I now own a Sig 220 and a Beretta M9 so I'll let you guess which I chose. The only 1911 I've ever found to be totally reliable out of the box is my series 80 Combat Commander in .38 super......doubt I'll ever bother buying another.

 

[Soap]

I would go with the 1911 full size. It is flat and easy to conceal, even under a t-shirt. I'd avoid the chopped "ultra-carry" or the Officer's model due to reliabilty issues. Commander size is okay, but IMHO useless in making it more concealable.

The Sigs are excellent choices as well. The only thing I don't like is the DA/SA trigger.

 

[marvl]

I would go with a full-size single-stack .45. Certainly no smaller than a Commander sized pistol. The smaller you go with a 1911 the more difficult it is to make it run reliably, and I personally don't trust those teensy-weensy ultras and other "pocket" sized 1911s.

If you put really slim grips on one, like those on the Les Baer TRS, the 1911 is one of the slimmest guns around. But get a good one. It's silly to carry a gun that is unreliable or one that you can't hit anything with.

 

[dbshabo]

Thanks for all the replies y'all. Good info, I appreciate it. I'm gonna look at the Sig 220 and some 1911's.

Mr. Flory mentioned he didn't like the DA/SA trigger on the Sig. What's that all about? Heavy pull? Sloppy action? Too many operations to get a shot off? I don't understand what he meant.

Shabo

 

[BigG]

I've read the arguments that a 9mm is just as effective as a .45. I just don't happen to believe it.

Me, neither.

 

[mini14jac]

After trying several .45s, (actually buying then trading them,) I settled on the S&W 457.
Alloy, 7+1, 29oz., DA first shot, then SA.
I was surprised at how accurate and shootable the gun is.
The gun is so much fun to shoot, I hate to take it to the range.
My other guns get ignored, and since I don't reload, the ammo cost is putting me in the poorhouse.
(In case you don't know what the poorhouse is, it's where my Mom always said the family would end up, because I broke stuff, ruined my clothes, etc.)

It's not quite as thin as a 1911, but it's close.
I think it is an "Officer-size" gun.

 

[Soap]

dbshabo- My first serious handgun was a Sig 228, then after that, a CZ PCR. These both have DA/SA triggers. For shooting, I operate on the KISS principle so I like a trigger that is the same shot-after-shot. The DA triggers on Sigs aren't great, but they are serviceable. If you can shoot the DA/SA very well, that's great. But for me, I prefer a gun with a consistent trigger like the 1911, BHP, Glock, P7, etc.

 

[JerryN]

Personally, I think Kimber makes some of the best and best looking .45s around. However, if you are used to the Beretta 92FS and shoot it well, you ought to handle the Beretta 8045 Cougar (as someone else pointed out). The sight picture is *almost* the same and you are already used to the controls. I carry one CCW every day and have no doubt it will function as required if needed.

You won't need to relearn anything and you'll be able to reliably make them big holes you want.