so i had a few minutes today before i had to leave so i decided to do a quick test loads. i started below min with 3 gr red dot and worked up to 4 gr then to 5 gr, using 180gr FT lead cast bullets from 15 yards, with my Bersa firsstorm mini .40 cal and from the looks of it (with my shaky hands) my gun likes 3gr.... it seams like 4gr and 5gr loads tumbled one round each....