Some thoughts on the .41mag

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I have been suggesting to a smaller ammo amnufacturer,

A .41 Remington Magnum load consisting of a 155-grain Gold Dot hollow point, cruising out of a 4" vented test barrel (revolver simulation) @ 1300 fps. This load would mimic a realtively spicy 10mm Automatic load. This would yield about 1250 fps from a 2" barreled revolver and 1350 fps from a 6" barreled revolver.

With these ballistics you would obtain fight-stopping performance with increased controllability. Since the .41 Remington Magnum is seeing a certain vogue in snub-nosed revolvers, this load would see a great deal of use in those that carry the "mid-bore maggie."

The manufacturer is considering production when the other projects upon which he is working is completed.

Scott
 
I would like to see a .41 Mag with a 190 grain JHP. Velocity should be in the neighborhood of 950 FPS from a 4" barrel.

Sectional density comes pretty close to a 230 grain .45, or a 180 grain .40. Should offer plenty of penetration, with a minumum of muzzle blast and recoil.

It might be possible to produce this as a .41 Special, or, even as a .41 Russian.

Then we need a 658 S&W to shoot it in.

Or, just resume production on the 58. I love mine, and would buy another one in a heartbeat.

The 696 might be large enough to take such a load also. That would rock!
 
Doesn't Speer still make a 180 gr hollow point? What's wrong with that? (or was it 170?)

munk
 
The problem?

Overpenetration and "conic" expansion. The manufacturer and I were seeking a "violent' expansion. These slugs could be driven at higher velocities to be used on varmints through .41 Remington Magnum-chambered rifles and long-barreled revolvers. These are two different loadings for the same slug for two entirely different purposes.

Is that sufficient elucidation?

Scott
 
Not really.
The Speer explodes violently and it is recomended that the round not be used for big game. Speer stops listing loads for it past a certain velocity- not pressure.
At the modest velocities you suggest it would be easy to shoot. expand admirably, still penetrate without over penetration.

munk
 
Would a 155 grain bullet have enough bearing surface to give adequate support for decent accuracy? The .41mag, being a large framed magnum handgun shouldn't be saddled with the spitting distance accuracy we see so much of today. If it was in a full wadcutter design I believe it would work, but as a hollow pointed design with the attending oglive there's not much left for a bearing surface.
 
I don't recall seeing a 155gr Speer Gold Dot in .410".

Have I missed something?

Even if they did make it... I can use a 158gr in a /357 magnum and have a better b/c. The slightly longer length to diameter ratio in a specific weight is why I prefer the .41 to the .44.


Based on 25 years of using and loading for the .41 mag, a 170-180gr bullet is my idea of a superior light bullet/high velocity loading.


By the way, if anyone is looking for a nice 4" .41 magnum barrel, I have an early bright blued one from a Model 58 available.
 
grendelbane, they make such a beast.
Well, not exactly.
It's shooting .40 S&W out of a smith 610!
The 610 of current manufacture is a really nice revolver, and the 10mm/.40 combo is really hard to beat.
Moonclips, baby.
Or if you reload, you can load 10mm down a little and still wind up with an accurate, well mannered sweet shooter.
 
Dear Majic:

The difference between a .40 and .41 caliber is quite slight. Just think, a lightweight .41 Remington Magnum with the punch of a hot 10mm Automatic, less recoil than the hotter "magnum" rounds and lighning-fast expansion. This is the ticket that those of the ".41 Special" persuasion are seeking, with 'modern' ballistics.

Scott ;)
 
Gunfan,
Most .41 Special seekers I have talked with don't want a light, hot round. The 175gr Silvertip has been covering that base for a very long while. What is wanted is a light to medium weight bullet traveling no more than 900fps. That will put it in the same catergory as the .38sp and the .44sp. It could then serve as a target or plinker round.
I am no fan of the fly weight handguns firing hot rounds that seems to be the latest fad on the market today. Give me a solid, accurate handgun firing a cartridge which would be fun shooting without enduring pain in the process.
Everything is not about "combat". Hunting and combat have already been addressed with the magnum version. I would like a pleasant shooting target/plinker version to be developed. That would be worthy of the name "Special".
 
Most of us practise with a 210, 215 semi wadcutter at 800 to 1000 fps which just about is the old police round.

I don't want a 155 gr splatter.

What I want is a 235 to 250 gr component hunting bullet.



munk
 
I am on record as wanting a 190 grain JHP at 950 fps. This would be similar ballistics to the old lead police round, which I have not seen in years. I wish some one would swage some soft lead bullets so I could replicate those!

Currently, I am loading Remington 200 grain JHP over 8 grains of Unique. This makes for a mild, extremely accurate load. Expansion is not reliable, however. The jacket should be notched, or scalloped, and the cavity probably needs to be slightly larger. The 180 grain .40 bullets will expand at the velocities that I want, so it is just a matter of making a similar bullet a hundredth of an inch larger.

My model 58 shoots well with cast bullets, but I still want something just a tad bit better.
 
Wish Speer made a .410 Gold Dot.
I would love that as a defensive load.
Now I have Silvertips or XTPs.
 
Ask and ye shall receive

M58 said;
Wish Speer made a .410 Gold Dot.
Click to expand...
M58, they do!
attachment.php

They are claiming 1280 fps from a 4" vented barrel.

Read more about it here.
 
The Gold Dot should make a great hunting bullet. However, we already had some great hunting bullets for the .41. 1280 fps is more than I want. I want something a little calmer that will be more suitable for the .41's intended purpose.

A 190 grain JHP has the same sectional density as a 180 grain 10mm, or a 230 grain .45. This provides enough weight to ensure adequate penetration. Remington could just scale up their 180 grain .40 Golden Saber.

Yes, I have a 3" 610. Unfortunately, for some silly reason, 180 grain JHP's shoot lower when fired from .40 S&W cases than they do when fired from 10mm cases. The 610 on the right side, and a P229 on the left side gives me the best of both worlds.
 
:scrutiny: Hmmm. Looks like a good bullet. I'd like to see a 240 and 165gr offering. Hopefully, they'll bring the GDs out as components. I've hoarded a supply of their 180gr.JHP for my .41AE and .41Avenger. This would be a good bullet for my .41Specials at around 900-1000fps. Good fodder for the 657Mountain gun and 657 3 inch I've got in the safe. This is encouraging as far as the .41Magnum goes. Heh, maybe we can get a hydro-shock before long. :what:
 
155 HP @ 1300 fps is just a decent .40 S&W round. Even with stupid reduced mags, I can get the same performance from various manufacturers, with 11 rounds on tap, instead of 6, if that's what I wanted. Part of the point of wheelguns, especially large ones, is to get a round you can't get from an autopistol. Hell, Georgia Arms- who typically doesn't "push the envelope" on their loadings, to keep them well within safe pressures- offers a 155 grain 10mm @ 1375 fps.

180 grain JHP @ 1300 or so would be more to my liking...or 165 @ 1375...
 
Yes, Mr. Shirley!! But next to strength, among the virtues offered by a revolver is versatility. One can fire a slower velocity bullet if one wanted to. The accuracy and recoil managment might well make up for having only six shots. Six is still a good number in a world where confrontations are decided by one, or even two.

But I don't want a 155 gr, and agree with you a heavier slug at the same or less velocity is a very good thing, indeed.

For people outdoors, and people trapped in the big City- a powerful penetrating bullet sometimes is the best choice- for Bear or Car Doors.



munk
 
This is the imperative...

What is being proposed, in this case, is a "man stopper" that will not overpenetrate, yet will cause a maximum disruption of tissue and vital organs. This is NOT a round being used for hunting anything besides humans and varmints.

The people that live in an urban setting, and those carying the short-barreled Taurus revolvers the antipersonnel option that will best serve thir needs. This is a round specifically tailored for these purposes, nothing more.

Scott
 
Well I see there are several differnt camps on this subject. I still think that a medium weight bullet of light construction pushed at a moderate 900fps will do the same job of a light weight bullet driven at hyper velocities, and be more versatile for other uses. The recoil should be about the same and the ammo makers could kill 2 birds with one stone. Designing a load to perform just one job for the very limited revolvers of that class found in the world today wouldn't be very profitable and we most likely won't see it. On the other hand if they give us a load that can be used for self defence, but still makes the target/plinker usage viable then they could sell a lot more of them.
Although I have .41s ranging in barrel size from 7 1/2" down to 3", there are a lot more shooters out there with the longer barreled guns. Why just address the concerns of the lesser crowd when there is a way to serve the entire community with just one load? The old police load would be about perfect with the advance jacketed bullets of today.
 
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