Someone at Remington 100 years ago just saved me

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SgtGenDanbo

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So I was at the range tonight and made a day 1 rookie mistake. I was shooting my all original 1918 dated 1917 Enfield (.30-06) and accidentally fired an 8mm Mauser round through it. Fortunately I think I have Remington's fine craftsmanship during that period to thank for saving me from being an idiot, and neither myself or anyone else was injured.
Obviously it was more difficult to chamber than a .30 round, but figuring the gun was just dirty or the round was just catching on the chamber as sometimes happens I went ahead and pulled the trigger. Whoops. Out came a big cloud of smoke and the round was stuck in the chamber. When removed I noticed the primer had been completely blown out of the casing, the bolt face appears to be uncracked but now has a perfect "8mm Mauser" stamped in reverse and the color of brass. The bottom of the chamber has a nice gouge in it, and the barrel looks okay but it's hard to say.
I'm not going to touch it until I get it checked out by a gunsmith, but has anyone had this happen before? Is the rifle safe to shoot? Will accuracy be affected? Or should I just replace the barrel and bolt face altogether? This is the first time I've ever had this happen and to be honest I'm still kinda shook up about it. It breaks my heart to see this happen to a 95 year old rifle, but mainly I'm just glad that I learned this lesson without getting hurt and I will certainly never make this mistake again! A gun can always be fixed, but getting a new face might get expensive. Any help or information on what to do in this situation would be greatly appreciated, and to all who read this learn from my mistake! Check your rounds!
 
Middle-aged guys who I knew nothing about at the range tried to do this in one of my rifles. The range is a private club.
They intended to use either 8mm in the Enfield #4 rifle, or .303 ammo in my Yugo Mauser. All they had done was reach for the ammo, wanting to put it into the wrong gun.

My impression is that a large segment of very experienced rifle shooters have never even touched any classic milsurp rifles.
The main problem might have been that I had two very similar kinds of ammo only a foot apart.:eek:
 
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Your 1917 has just sustained a 90,000 lb range ignition event.

Your headspace may now well be on the large end but then again the 1917s were noted for long headspace in the production phases.

Ideally if you could get the rifle to a non destructive test facility and have it mag particle inspected from the receiver to the muzzle would be a good idea as your round was 20,000 lbs over a proof load.

Barrels have been known to crack.

Should a subsequent round be introduced into a cracked barrel you will likely sustain a catastrophic barrel failure in the 3:00- 9:00o'clock orientation. If your hand is under the forearm during such a failure your thumb or four fingers will likely be severed.

This happened when P. O. Ackley was a instructor at Trinidad in the early 1950s. PO had told the students under no circumstances would a gov't barrel be rechambered for a magnum as the metallurgy was not sufficient in gov't barrels to sustain higher pressure ranges safely.

One of his students wanted to save a buck and rechambered a 1917 for 300 Magnum, the barrel failed and he lost four fingers on left hand.

This is all known as the guy that trained me was in the class with the young man that rechambered the rifle. The guy's name that lost the fingers was Marquart and the witnesses name was Roscoe Picard who left Trinidad and went to Springfield Armory for a career in the ordnance field. Roscoe was very good and provided me with a ordnance education I could have never received anywhere else.

In Hatcher's Notebook he covers marginal gov't barrel steel from the early 1900s.

My best recommendation is at a very minimum get the barrel replaced with modern steel and do not fire it again.

As well I have seen a 1903A3 replacement barrel that was cracked on proof firing, coated with cosmolene and sent out to depot installation.


That fascinated me and the gunsmith that found it knew about a number of 03A3 barrels cracking and his procedure was to chuck new barrels in lathe and polish the phosphate off the barrel before mounting one. He gave me one and a hairline crack is clearly visible down the barrel to the front of the chamber. I still have that barrel somewhere and should I find it I will photograph the hairline crack and post it.

Bottom line don't fire it again, replace the barrel and make sure the gunsmith cuts barrel in half at front of chamber so it won't be put on another rifle.

You are not the first one to put a 8MM round in a 06 chamber. Now you know when you get a obstructive closing to back up and take a good looksee. The Lord was definitely looking after you that day. Don't temp fate my using it as it.
 
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"Ideally if you could get the rifle to a non destructive test facility and have it mag particle inspected from the receiver to the muzzle would be a good idea as your round was 20,000 lbs over a proof load. "


Is that like maganfluxing for cracks. I know of a similar mishap and the rifle was rebarreld. But sometime later the bolt face cracked. I was witness when this happened. Scared the crap out of the shooter. He wasn't hurt but did get a blast of gas from the ignition. It blew a corner off of the bolt face. He had the head space checked later which was a go. They seem to think the original 8mm round caused the crack and after how ever many rounds it finally came apart.
 
i reload for 8mm Mauser and 30-06 so the differences of the two loads are obvious to me. i still would not get those two rounds anywhere near each other at the range or in storage. do not load a rifle with your eyes closed. i even have 54r rounds that are too powerful for some guns but not for the other one's. stay organized it may be a pain in the butt it will always pay off in the long run. nice to know this thread will not be used by the gun grabbers to make a point. oh no my tin foil hat must be too tight help. everyone needs to be careful when firing boom sticks :scrutiny:
 
The 1917 has always been known for having a robust design.

Wasn't the P14 designed by the British...then just modified for the .30-06?
 
You are extremely lucky to have been shooting a M1917, and not a M1903. On the latter, you would have had your face blown off.

I agree with the statements of getting the barrel replaced altogether. Don't try and save it. Removing a 7.92mm bullet from a barrel designed for a 7.62mm bullet isn't likely even something that can be accomplished easily.

The only way I can think of is to chuck the barrel in a lathe and drill most of the bullet out, then heat the barrel red hot and melt the rest out. This would require heat treating and parkerizing the barrel all over again. Not cost effective whatsoever.

Get the bolt and chamber magnafluxed for cracks. Any competent machine shop can do this for you, as it is a common procedure when rebuilding cast iron engine blocks and cylinder heads.
 
Thanks for sharing and glad you are OK. Replace the barrel and bolt after you have the receiver magnafluxed.
 
why spend all that money on the rifle? sell what ever parts are good the stock ,sights etc. scrap bolt barrel receiver
 
One of my mooching buddies managed to shoot a box of my 30-06 through his 700BDL in 270 at the range one day. Didn't realize what he had done until I said "Where did my 06 ammo go?" His reply was "I thought the recoil seemed a little more stout." He had the rifle checked and the gunsmith said it was okay.
 
Get a new barrel. Retire the old one. It did its duty, held together when you needed it to, and deserves a well earned rest.
 
Hummer70,

Just curious where you got your pressure figures. I would like to read up on thoses tests. 90000psi seems very high for only 15 thousandths of swaging down. I am not a physicist so I am not saying you are wrong I would just enjoy reading the test.
 
Skyshot said:
"Ideally if you could get the rifle to a non destructive test facility and have it mag particle inspected from the receiver to the muzzle would be a good idea as your round was 20,000 lbs over a proof load. "


Is that like maganfluxing for cracks. I know of a similar mishap and the rifle was rebarreld. But sometime later the bolt face cracked. I was witness when this happened. Scared the crap out of the shooter. He wasn't hurt but did get a blast of gas from the ignition. It blew a corner off of the bolt face. He had the head space checked later which was a go. They seem to think the original 8mm round caused the crack and after how ever many rounds it finally came apart.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly what this is.

Cracks in metals, even internal cracks not visible on the exterior, cause distortions in magnetic fields, which can be visible when you apply a magnetically permiable powder to the area in question.

Liquid dye penetrants are excellent for surface crack detections, as well.

However, even if no cracks are present I agree with 4V50 Gary...honorably retire the barrel and get a new one. It did its job and protected you from a significant overpressure event...no sense in pressing the OP's luck.
 
When Roy Weatherby was using existing actions (pre-Mark V), I believe he used the M1917 action among others. He wanted to design the Mark V to hold together without undue damage to the firearm (and no injury to the shooter) to 200,000 pounds. Take some time and read up on Roy Weatherby's tests. We have him to thank for much of modern firearms safety. I say this, because I believe that other firearms manufacturers paid attention to his tests. I do agree with getting the rifle checked by some professional. Seriously, read Roy's tests! They will shock you! Glad you're okay!

Couple of Fun Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherby_Mark_V

http://www.weatherby.dk/showthread.php?201-Test-of-the-MARK-V-action

Geno
 
I can't imagine the bullet not exiting the barrel. Granted it would have been a little longer, but had it not exited it would have blown the barrel or action.
 
firesky101 said:
Hummer70,

Just curious where you got your pressure figures. I would like to read up on thoses tests. 90000psi seems very high for only 15 thousandths of swaging down. I am not a physicist so I am not saying you are wrong I would just enjoy reading the test.
Click to expand...

Maybe my math is wrong, but to me a 7.92mm object trying to fit in a space designed for a 7.62mm object is a difference of 0.30mm. That comes out to about 0.012" when you convert it to English Standard (but why would you bother? They do make metric micrometers...).

Regardless of whether it is twelve thousands of an inch, or three tenths of a millimeter, that is a very large difference in size. In machining, anytime you start to get into tenths of a millimeter or hundredths of an inch, you are talking about a sizable number. Such differences in size get into the realm of objects that are press-fit (or interference fit) together, never to be taken apart. Putting a combustion event (igniting gunpowder) behind such parts can easily create pressures way beyond normal.
 
According to P.O. Ackley, it isn't swaging the bullet down it is the case neck force fit into the chamber neck so it can't expand to release the bullet that skyrockets pressure. Clark "bullet pinch."

The barrel is ok or the chamber has a gouge in it; which?
 
Am I wrong in thinking the projectile left the barrel? I can't imagine it not without blowing the barrel or worse.
 
Thank you all for the advice! I will certainly get the barrel and bolt face inspected and likely replace both. I know of a pretty decent gunsmith nearby, so I will be stopping by there this week. Yes, the bullet did exit the barrel, but the casing was stuck in the chamber. I apologize for the mix up when I typed the original post-I wrote that as soon as I got home and was still pretty shook up and stunned at the time. I've attached a few pictures for anyone who is interested to see of the chamber and the bolt face. I haven't been able to get a decent picture of the barrel yet, but as I mentioned visibly it looks fine and still has decent rifling. If it's not usable I suppose it would make a fine lamp someday for the man cave. Once again, thank you for all the advice and I'm going to be much much more careful from now on!
 

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Murphy4570 said:
Maybe my math is wrong, but to me a 7.92mm object trying to fit in a space designed for a 7.62mm object is a difference of 0.30mm. That comes out to about 0.012" when you convert it to English Standard (but why would you bother? They do make metric micrometers...).

Regardless of whether it is twelve thousands of an inch, or three tenths of a millimeter, that is a very large difference in size. In machining, anytime you start to get into tenths of a millimeter or hundredths of an inch, you are talking about a sizable number. Such differences in size get into the realm of objects that are press-fit (or interference fit) together, never to be taken apart. Putting a combustion event (igniting gunpowder) behind such parts can easily create pressures way beyond normal.
Click to expand...
8mm mauser = .323 projectile (unless it was really old then .318 I think???)
30'06 = .308 projectile

.015 difference. I get that it can drastically increase pressure, but there has been a 6.5 arisaka chambered for .30'06 without a new bore. Thats a .308 slipping down to a bore designed to fire .264. I'm not saying its a good idea but thats why I would like to read the study done if someone has done it.
 
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Then there was the guy that rechambered a Japanese 6.5 mm to 30-06 without reboring the barrel. Famous story and NRA used it for tests back when they were do more with guns than politics...
 
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