Something Scared the Deer Away

alsaqr

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South Western, OK
For a couple months deer have not frequented the game plots and feeder at our property north of Elmore City. Yesterday i called the rancher neighbor about another matter.

The rancher raises hundreds of sheep. Recently the mans relative watched a mountain lion and two cubs cross the road between our properties. One of the sheep dogs has scratches on it's face.

That would scare the deer off.
 
For a couple months deer have not frequented the game plots and feeder at our property north of Elmore City. Yesterday i called the rancher neighbor about another matter.

The rancher raises hundreds of sheep. Recently the mans relative watched a mountain lion and two cubs cross the road between our properties. One of the sheep dogs has scratches on it's face.

That would scare the deer off.
Maybe, maybe not, deer live with constant pressure from predators so they may have just moved farther back to a different feeding area, the cat seems to favor an easier meal at the moment.
Added: I’ve seen a wolf 20 yards behind white tail trying to take one down and those deer just stayed ahead of him and come right back tomorrow to eat and a month later be nowhere in sight..
 
Out here in Western Washington we are over run with cougars. When a cougar moves in to an area deer get thined out pretty fast.
When you have a mom cougar with two or three kittens the deer disappear much fasters.
A guy about twenty miles from our place just shot a hundred &fifty pound cougar.
They average one deer a week per cat.



   
 

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Kill them all and give them to some one who wants to eat them.
Some one shot a 197 pound male cougar over by Spokane a year or two ago.
 
This one was shot in Washington in 2018. (Not my photo)

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A cat tha t big can take down a full grown elk in a heart beat.
I know three people who lose three 1,200 pound riding horses from cougar attacks.
A friend lost two sheep from cougars
Another friend lost several goats and his neighbor lost some goats as well.
They are not picky on what they kill for food.
A guy not for from our place lost two dogs to a cougar.
 
Certainly understandable. See similar reactions around here with wolves. While the deer appear to disappear when the wolves appear, for the most part, they just hide more, and stick to smaller family groups. Few weeks go by, I hear fewer wolf howls and more coyote yips at night and the deer suddenly reappear. Overall deer activity during daylight has dropped off dramatically here too at the food plots, but it seems to be an annual thing with the coming of warmer weather.
 
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That would scare the deer off.

While not scaring them off, we don’t see many when the acorns fall from the trees, they tend to stay in the woods until they are gone, then come back out to find other food, once they consume them.

They prefer them even to corn thrown from a feeder.
 
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I'd take any cougar out it I had the proper tags.
They kill on average a deer a week per cat. That's fifty deer a year for one cougar. WHEN there are three cats in the area that is a hundred and fifty deer a year gone.

Then add in the coyote kill.
A pair of Coyotes with pups kill on average twenty deer fawns a year. In Kansas they had a trail cam on a coyote den and that one pair of Coyotes killed 46 deer fawns to feed their pups.
So taking the predators out is a good thing for the deer population.
 
When I was young (a long time ago), the B&C record for the largest cougar was held by Teddy Roosevelt. It has been broken a few times since.

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He killed 14 of them on a hunting trip and donated them to a museum.
 
Big cat presence definitely could be a cause. It's surprising how often on outing's: on the trails or hunting people will come across big cat sign. Here in Arkansas a decade ago Fish and game were emphatic. "There are no cougar's" in Arkansas. The people started losing small animals and photo's blatantly showing them. Many tracks up around "Hawks Bill Krag" or around the hiking trails over at "Queen Willamena state Park". Heck even over to the flat plains south east of Paragould. Heck I've even been jumped a couple of times by cougars at the local bar, yikes scary stuff.
 
Here in Arkansas a decade ago Fish and game were emphatic. "There are no cougar's" in Arkansas.

Same thing here. The game commission kept insisting there were no panthers north of Ft. Myers. That is until they found a panther-killed deer along with tracks and hair inland from Daytona Beach ... 215 miles north of Ft. Myers.

It seems to me that the attitude of game dept. officials is that they are never wrong.
 
Big cat presence definitely could be a cause. It's surprising how often on outing's: on the trails or hunting people will come across big cat sign. Here in Arkansas a decade ago Fish and game were emphatic. "There are no cougar's" in Arkansas. The people started losing small animals and photo's blatantly showing them. Many tracks up around "Hawks Bill Krag" or around the hiking trails over at "Queen Willamena state Park". Heck even over to the flat plains south east of Paragould. Heck I've even been jumped a couple of times by cougars at the local bar, yikes scary stuff.

The Missouri Dept. of Conservation is still trying to say that any cougars in the state are just traveling through from other states and that we do not have a native population here. There was at least one sighted in St Louis County not too long ago. And we have always had cougars here, they never completely left the state. I can remember seeing one all the time on a friend's farm in St Charles County (just west of St Louis) and my dad remembers always seeing them up around Hannibal, Mo when he was younger.
 
About 15 years ago a local breeder's stud horse was torn up by a mountain lion. Horse owner called the wildlife people and was threatened with dire consequences should he kill the animal. That case and others caused the legislature to become involved in the mountain lion thing.

About 2006 i was tracking a wounded hog down a gully on that property. Looked up on the bank about 20 yards away: There sat a big cat switching it's tail and licking it's face. i killed that mountain lion. That is the only mountain lion i ever saw up close, i've since seen one at a distance on Fort Sill.

i absolutely will not harm the female mountain lion or her cubs presently frequenting that area. i do hunt coyotes there as do several others. If the lion showed up in response to the caller, i would fire the rifle to possibly scare the animal and her cubs off.
 
The Missouri Dept. of Conservation is still trying to say that any cougars in the state are just traveling through from other states and that we do not have a native population here.

Same as Wisconsin. Several years ago, one attacked a steer in a field next to my DILs family farm. The attack was witnessed by a Turkey hunter and the hunter shot at the cougar with his turkey loads. He drew blood, but did not kill the animal. DNA from the blood trail confirmed it was a cougar. Wounds on the steer confirmed it indeed had been attacked and this is what saved the hunter from a hefty fine and loss of gun and hunting privileges. Later that week, my DIL's father called the DNR to confirm tracks found in their garden. The agent confirmed they were indeed cougar tracks, but when asked about killing the animal, the reply was, "you better have some wounds on whatever it is attacking to prove there was an actual attack.". several months later, DNA confirmed that the same cat, a young male, had been hit by a car and killed in Connecticut. There are trailcam pictures of cougars a mile or so as a crow flies, from where we live on the outskirts of town. Down at my son's land, about 25 miles south of where we live, There are many pictures of cougars on the neighbors trail cameras. I witnessed one crossing the road on my way home from there. When I contacted the DNR, I was told I must have mistook a bobcat for a cougar. I see Bobcats all the time, there is no mistaking a bobcat, out in the open, crossing the road broadside, directly in front of you, in broad daylight, for a cougar. There is no mistaking the 3' drooping tail of a cougar. Yet, I understand the reluctance of the DNR to proclaim there is a population, when so many of the residents of our state, are completely naive about them. After the attack on the steer mentioned before, local Rednecks would leave the local bar, packed in a pickup, with loaded guns and drive the local roads. Their reasoning being, they were protecting the lives of livestock and humans alike. Parents kept their children home from school, because they feared they would be attacked on the way to/from the bus or even on the playground during recess. Every time a dog strayed from home, it became a cougar casualty on Facebook. Then, when the lost dog was found, it became a "miracle" that it survived.o_O

That said, I have no problem with cougars in the area, just as I have no issue with wolves. Within reason. When their numbers get too high, and/or when they lose their fear of humans, they need to be controlled by hunting. Like with wolves, cougars only show up when and where food is plentiful. Modern deer hunting has increased deer populations around here to the point that car/deer collisions are a common occurrence, even during daylight hours and year round. It used to be the only time you worried about hitting a deer was during the rut. Unless I cannot help it. I refuse to ride my motorcycle at dawn, dusk or during nighttime because of the high probability of hitting a deer. Can't plant anything down at the cabin, whether it be an ornamental cherry/crabapple tree, or flowers, without some sort of protection from the deer. Even daffodils, which are supposed to be deer proof, are eaten to the ground the minute they emerge. This even tho the area is surrounded by Ag fields and we have acres of food planted for year round grazing, just for the deer. The lawn around the building is covered with deer scat to the point you can hardy walk without stepping on it. We are given all the free antlerless tags we want, yet no one shoots more than one, if that, on their property. So yes, there is food there for predators. If there are predators, we are responsible for much of the blame. As I said before, those nights I go out and cannot hear the 'yotes yipping, I know the wolves have moved in. Like the deer, they leave Dodge or make themselves scarce when the wolves move in. Give it a few weeks and once again you will hear them yip and you know the wolves have moved out.
 
We don’t get them in New York anymore, but once did. My great, great, grandfather.

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We do good deer hunting back there in New York.
We gave a bunch of venison to the Norwich Police Department.
We We dropped the meat off I was talking to a Sargent about how plentiful the deer are back there in that area and other wildlife.
He said when he was working the 3.30 to midnight shift on his way home he had a cougar cross the road. And he said people were calling in cougar sightings. .
We hunt two farms in Greene New York and both of the land owners have seen a cougar multiple times.
The state DEC denies there are cougars in New York .
Just like they denied there was wolves there. A guy shot a wolf up in the Adirondacks. Now in the big game manual they describe the difference between wolves and coyotes.

I don't believe half the stuff any state agency has to say.
 
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