Something went wrong during staining my stock... help!
- Thread starter dak0ta
- Start date
- Status
mickeydim468
Member
Hey Dakota,
I would just do a light sanding over the darker spots and call it good. Than apply your choice of top coat. I recently did a stock job with Claro Walnut. I sanded it with grits in excess of 600, then 1000, and then my final sand was with 2000 grit paper. When I Tru Oiled it, guess what? the end grain still sucked up more of the oil than the rest of the stock did. I was working with harder wood and sanded to extreme and still I have a darker hand grip and fore-end than the rest of the rifle.
In my personal opinion, It looks better this way. It gives it a sort of patina or aged used look to it.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. I like the way the grain looks, so keep going. It will be a nice piece when you are finished.
Mikey!
I would just do a light sanding over the darker spots and call it good. Than apply your choice of top coat. I recently did a stock job with Claro Walnut. I sanded it with grits in excess of 600, then 1000, and then my final sand was with 2000 grit paper. When I Tru Oiled it, guess what? the end grain still sucked up more of the oil than the rest of the stock did. I was working with harder wood and sanded to extreme and still I have a darker hand grip and fore-end than the rest of the rifle.
In my personal opinion, It looks better this way. It gives it a sort of patina or aged used look to it.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. I like the way the grain looks, so keep going. It will be a nice piece when you are finished.
Mikey!
yeah, it's some kinda tricky, tricky stuff!
Foam brush, 1, maybe 2 passes, then leave it alone. I did a whole house's worth of molding and beams with that stuff. The only thing that made it worth learning was being a single step finish and not prone to much wear, it saved the client lots of manhours. But what a pain it was to get the hang of!
Mickey - just my $0.02, but you're wasting your time sanding wood past 320. If you go to 320 then 4/0 steel wool, you shouldn't see any scratches left and that's all you need under the finish. If there are still scratches, they're left over from a coarser grit. Just trying to save you some time and effort, take it as you will.
UpTheIrons
Member
UPTheIrons you sure do want to get that wood as bare and to natural as possible. The more uniformed the wood the more uniformed it will look. The stain will be able to penetrate properly and with out having the dirt and grease there to discolor the final look.
Just my .02
-Chris
Thanks for the help! I'll strip it as bare as possible. Who knows - I may wind up posting my own 'experiment' later.
Kentucky_Rifleman
Member
jdowney said:
+1. It's better to finish with the steel wool and check closely for any stray scuffs left by the courser paper than to sand everything down to 5000 grit. You'll keep a touch more wood this way, and you'll find more of your errors before the finish is applied.
Also, with Tung oil, when you do discover a scratch under the first coat/s of finish, just sand the scratches smooth and keep applying the TO, it will even out beautifully in another few coats.
KR
+1. It's better to finish with the steel wool and check closely for any stray scuffs left by the courser paper than to sand everything down to 5000 grit. You'll keep a touch more wood this way, and you'll find more of your errors before the finish is applied.
Also, with Tung oil, when you do discover a scratch under the first coat/s of finish, just sand the scratches smooth and keep applying the TO, it will even out beautifully in another few coats.
KR
Birch is a funny wood to stain. The areas around the stock that are dark are where the pores suck up the stain more than the rest. IIRC, Minwax has a product that if you put it on first it will keep the stain from doing that and give a more consistent finish.
I refinished my birch CMP stock and had some of the same stuff around the grip and the tip of the fore end.
I refinished my birch CMP stock and had some of the same stuff around the grip and the tip of the fore end.
mickeydim468
Member
Well it worked out beautifully for me. Once you get past 320 you wipe on alcohol and it opens the pores, then hit it with the 600 grit to close them back up and to fill with even smaller particles of wood. I did this all the way to 2000 grit and the finish on the rifle now has a depth that can only be appreciated in person, as no camera can convey the 3d effect that this process gave the wood!
What my point was is that I was rebutting an earlier post that suggested the OP maybe didn't get those darker areas clean or sanded enough, and that when I took it to the Nth degree on my stock, which is a better grade hardwood, and I had the same results, that maybe the OP didn't do anything wrong. . Maybe I didn't convey my message as concisely as I should have and now you understand why I did what I did and why I posted here in the first place.
Mikey!
OP
OP
dak0ta
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,428
Retry!
Alright guys, so I stripped the stock, resanded, used some alcohol on the places with oil to dissolve it out, tack clothed it, put lots of MinWax wood pre-conditioner, let it soak for 15, wiped of the excess, tack clothed, and used some X-3D Gel mahogany stain! It blended much better than the Minwax special walnut. It's out in the garage drying right now. I think it turned out WAY better, still blotchy, but more blended. By the way, how long do I wait before I start the Tung oil? 1 week?
Pics:
Fore-end knob:
Underside:
Left rear stock:
Grip:
Right side full:
Alright guys, so I stripped the stock, resanded, used some alcohol on the places with oil to dissolve it out, tack clothed it, put lots of MinWax wood pre-conditioner, let it soak for 15, wiped of the excess, tack clothed, and used some X-3D Gel mahogany stain! It blended much better than the Minwax special walnut. It's out in the garage drying right now. I think it turned out WAY better, still blotchy, but more blended. By the way, how long do I wait before I start the Tung oil? 1 week?
Pics:
Fore-end knob:
Underside:
Left rear stock:
Grip:
Right side full:
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
looks good very nice. I would read the mfg instructions on drying time. i usually just let it set for a few days (Which is longer than the mfg time, typically). I've learned that working on it to quickly is a good way to have to start over.
mickeydim468
Member
Looking great!
I haven't used TO before so maybe someone else will chime in on that part, I just wanted to comment that your work is looking good!
Mikey!
I haven't used TO before so maybe someone else will chime in on that part, I just wanted to comment that your work is looking good!
Mikey!
Kentucky_Rifleman
Member
That gel stain sure does look slick to me. You got a nice, even coat out of it. As for drying time, I'd wait until the wood no longer feels at all tacky before starting.
With Tung Oil, the first coat will take the longest to dry. Just rag it on sparingly, but enough to get a good even coat. Those same spots that soaked up the stain will suck up the TO as well and look flat compared to the light sheen the TO will leave on the rest of the stock. Don't worry; subsequent coats of the TO will even these areas out.
I typically let coat 1 dry a full 24 hours before re-applying. It helps if you have a warm/hot dry area to leave the stock (I set mine close to a space heater in winter or in the attic in summer).
When the first coat is completely dry (no longer tacky) apply the second coat. All subsequent coats will dry much more quickly than the first. Rag each coat on and steel wool lightly with 0000 just before applying the next coat. TO finishes take more time than urethanes or laquers, but they're worth it IMHO. They're typically a sturdy, workhorse finish, well-suited to rifle and shotguns where the wood gets a lot of handling.
To build a deeper shine, just keep adding coats. I've seen stocks that looked like they were dipped in liquid glass, because they had been given 30+ coats of TO. That's not really my taste, but I can appreciate the perfection required for that finish. 12-15 light coats will leave a light semi-gloss sheen to the stock that I find appealing. Half that many coats will seal the wood pretty thoroughly and leave a matte finish.
Please post more pics as you go!
Happy finishing,
KR
With Tung Oil, the first coat will take the longest to dry. Just rag it on sparingly, but enough to get a good even coat. Those same spots that soaked up the stain will suck up the TO as well and look flat compared to the light sheen the TO will leave on the rest of the stock. Don't worry; subsequent coats of the TO will even these areas out.
I typically let coat 1 dry a full 24 hours before re-applying. It helps if you have a warm/hot dry area to leave the stock (I set mine close to a space heater in winter or in the attic in summer).
When the first coat is completely dry (no longer tacky) apply the second coat. All subsequent coats will dry much more quickly than the first. Rag each coat on and steel wool lightly with 0000 just before applying the next coat. TO finishes take more time than urethanes or laquers, but they're worth it IMHO. They're typically a sturdy, workhorse finish, well-suited to rifle and shotguns where the wood gets a lot of handling.
To build a deeper shine, just keep adding coats. I've seen stocks that looked like they were dipped in liquid glass, because they had been given 30+ coats of TO. That's not really my taste, but I can appreciate the perfection required for that finish. 12-15 light coats will leave a light semi-gloss sheen to the stock that I find appealing. Half that many coats will seal the wood pretty thoroughly and leave a matte finish.
Please post more pics as you go!
Happy finishing,
KR
Kentucky_Rifleman
Member
Mickeydim468, I wasn't trying to pick apart your post at all. I have no doubt that your process gave you a beautiful stock (I'd love to see the photos when you have time). Now I understand what you were saying about the super-fine sanding still not closing the grain.
KR
mickeydim468
Member
No offense, I just wasn't clear enough in my first post. My .300 Win Mag Stock Project This is a link to 185 pictures of my rifle during the various stages, from the condition of the wood when I received the rough cut stock, all the way to the end where it is finished. Like I said, the camera does not do it justice, but it still looks pretty good to me on camera. I am not a professional photographer either, so take that into account when you look at these pics. I did the best I could with the available equipment I have.
If you want to look at my other stock building project, just click on my other albums and look at the .243 album. I am still not finished with that one, but it is getting there.
Mikey!
fireman 9731
Member
There are few things in the world that I would rather look at than a beautiful gun stock... Looks like you are certainly on the right track!
OP
OP
dak0ta
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,428
Can you guys offer your regimen for Tung Oil applications? I'm using the brand: Behr Scandinavian Pure Tung Oil from the Home Depot. Do I need to do anything to it before applying it?
I'm planning to wait for the stock to be completely dry (not sticky). I will use a tack cloth to get off any particles. Then I will apply a thin first coat of Tung Oil. Do I need to use 0000 steel wool on the stock before the 1st TO coat?
After the 1st TO coat dries, I will use 0000 steel wool on the stock, tack cloth, and then add a 2nd coat. Does the 2nd coat need to be thicker? Or the same? Should I slobber it onto the stock, wait a couple of minutes, and then wipe off the excess? Or should I just use enough till the stock absorbs it all?
Repeat until happy.
Now what do I do after I am satisfied with "X" number of TO coats? Do I just buff it with a rag? or steel wool? What then?
I'm planning to wait for the stock to be completely dry (not sticky). I will use a tack cloth to get off any particles. Then I will apply a thin first coat of Tung Oil. Do I need to use 0000 steel wool on the stock before the 1st TO coat?
After the 1st TO coat dries, I will use 0000 steel wool on the stock, tack cloth, and then add a 2nd coat. Does the 2nd coat need to be thicker? Or the same? Should I slobber it onto the stock, wait a couple of minutes, and then wipe off the excess? Or should I just use enough till the stock absorbs it all?
Repeat until happy.
Now what do I do after I am satisfied with "X" number of TO coats? Do I just buff it with a rag? or steel wool? What then?
Last edited:
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
Holy smokes man. That looks 1000 times better! It wasn't too bad at first in my opinion but you did a wonderful job getting a more uniform look around the grip area and the fore end of the stock! Cant wait to see the final finish on it!
Good Job!
-Chris
Good Job!
-Chris
Looks like you got much better results this time around dak0ta, keep the pics coming
Now that you have it stained, I'd go easy on the steel wool, if used at all. Gel stain is a surface treatment mostly, and its easy to buff through it. Even with penetrating stains you can buff through with 4/0 wool and elbow grease.
The trick with tung oil is to wipe it on with a small rag, then after you have it thoroughly coated, you can wipe off excess, either with a clean rag or the same one. On the first coat especially, the wood will soak up the oil as you wipe. Rub it in with a lint free rag and let it dry and you shouldn't need the steel wool and tack cloth in between coats. I'd give the gel stain a good day or two to dry, its usually just a linseed or soy oil base so if you coat with a solvent finish too soon it'll start to rub off the stain.
Two or three coats of tung should give you a nice satin finish, if you want more gloss, switch to a danish oil or wiping varnish after the first or second coat of tung.
Fun isn't it? Watch out or you'll start buying guns just to make stocks for them
Now that you have it stained, I'd go easy on the steel wool, if used at all. Gel stain is a surface treatment mostly, and its easy to buff through it. Even with penetrating stains you can buff through with 4/0 wool and elbow grease.
The trick with tung oil is to wipe it on with a small rag, then after you have it thoroughly coated, you can wipe off excess, either with a clean rag or the same one. On the first coat especially, the wood will soak up the oil as you wipe. Rub it in with a lint free rag and let it dry and you shouldn't need the steel wool and tack cloth in between coats. I'd give the gel stain a good day or two to dry, its usually just a linseed or soy oil base so if you coat with a solvent finish too soon it'll start to rub off the stain.
Two or three coats of tung should give you a nice satin finish, if you want more gloss, switch to a danish oil or wiping varnish after the first or second coat of tung.
Fun isn't it? Watch out or you'll start buying guns just to make stocks for them
Hey Mickey, if you're happy with your results that's all that really matters. Fantastic looking pics!
I used to work for a high end furniture builder, and still do a little on the side, so I still tend to get a time-is-money oriented outlook on things
You can also fill pores with this stuff called Behlen Pore-O-Pack (how long did they think to come up with that name?). You paint it on then squeegee it off with an old CC or bondo spat. Let it dry and buff off excess, then finish as usual. Its really fine silica in some kind of thin oil carrier I believe.
I used to work for a high end furniture builder, and still do a little on the side, so I still tend to get a time-is-money oriented outlook on things
You can also fill pores with this stuff called Behlen Pore-O-Pack (how long did they think to come up with that name?
). You paint it on then squeegee it off with an old CC or bondo spat. Let it dry and buff off excess, then finish as usual. Its really fine silica in some kind of thin oil carrier I believe.
fireman 9731
Member
Well, this is what I do with Tru-oil. Tru-oil is a blend of oils and hardeners that gives it a few different properties than pure tung oil. Either way the applications are about the same.
I start with a stained and dried stock. Lightly buff it with some 000 steel wool to knock down any rough spots then give it a few wipes with a tack cloth.
For the first coat of oil I really slather it on there. The first coat will really soak into the wood so I give it a heavy coat. After about an hour I apply another light coat to any of the spots that really soaked into the wood. Then I let it dry for at least a day.
After Its well dried I buff it with 0000 steel wool until its smooth. Then apply another decent coat of oil. This time it may just have to dry for about 12 hours, but either way, make sure its dry and hard before you buff it with 0000 steel wool again.
Keep doing this over and over with a lighter coat of oil each time. The buffing usually gets easier with each coat too. Depending on the look you want you might be done in 5 coats or 25 coats.
Your last coat should be very light and buffed well with 0000 steel wool.
Of course use a tack cloth between all your coats and make sure its dry before you buff it. I apply all of mine with my finger. You can really tell where the rough or dry spots are and it makes it much easier than applying with a rag or brush. And pure tung oil will probably take a little longer to dry than Tru-oil so keep that in mind.
Good luck and be patient!
I start with a stained and dried stock. Lightly buff it with some 000 steel wool to knock down any rough spots then give it a few wipes with a tack cloth.
For the first coat of oil I really slather it on there. The first coat will really soak into the wood so I give it a heavy coat. After about an hour I apply another light coat to any of the spots that really soaked into the wood. Then I let it dry for at least a day.
After Its well dried I buff it with 0000 steel wool until its smooth. Then apply another decent coat of oil. This time it may just have to dry for about 12 hours, but either way, make sure its dry and hard before you buff it with 0000 steel wool again.
Keep doing this over and over with a lighter coat of oil each time. The buffing usually gets easier with each coat too. Depending on the look you want you might be done in 5 coats or 25 coats.
Your last coat should be very light and buffed well with 0000 steel wool.
Of course use a tack cloth between all your coats and make sure its dry before you buff it. I apply all of mine with my finger. You can really tell where the rough or dry spots are and it makes it much easier than applying with a rag or brush. And pure tung oil will probably take a little longer to dry than Tru-oil so keep that in mind.
Good luck and be patient!
mickeydim468
Member
Thanks for the compliment on my pics. I only work part time, so time I have lots of. It was my first stock job and it worked out for me.
I, like the OP, love doing this stock finishing. Whether it is a new stock that I am making for a custom, or a refurb job, for an old restored look. I absolutely love this stuff!
The more of these I do, the more I want to do. I already have my 3rd stock on order for my M1917 Remington. It is similar in shape as my .243 job, but it has a different and shorter fore end. You see, my M1917 was sporterized before I got it. The barrel was cut down to 20", so I am making it a brush Carbine type rifle. By the way, I didn't go all the way to 2000 grit on my .243 job. I only went to 400 before I applied the top coat. I am going to be going to a lot higher on the top coat, because I want it to look like "Wood under glass"
Mikey!
Ratdog68
Member
I'd been given some cautions about using 0000 steel wool during the "finish" stage (rust)... so, I toddled down to my local wood working store and bought the equivelant to 0000 wool in a 3M Scotch Brite type material, quite happy with the results of it and no worries of rusty hairs that might show up under the finish. No experience with tongue oil... had good results with Tru-Oil though (hand rubbed).
Just for general info - genuine tung oil is vastly different than Tru-oil and similar film finishes. Tung oil will not build a film, that's why I suggest skipping the tack cloth with tung only. Just want to be clear on that. Buffing and tacking between coats of a film finish is a good idea. Many of the products sold in home centers and hardware stores all called "tung oil finish" or something similar. These are not necessarily pure tung oil and may behave more like tru-oil than pure tung oil. Gets awfully complicated when you throw in marketing names
- Status
