Source for 10.5 percussion caps
- Thread starter poihths
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arcticap
Member
I doubt that there are any caps currently made and labeled as #10.5's.
Folks usually either pinch their caps to fit, or dress the nipple so that the smaller size #10's will fit, or they replace their nipples with #11 nipples.
Every cone is made with a slightly different taper which can be tried out with #10 or #11 caps.
Even the European dealers only seem to offer two sizes in the metric equivalents of #10's (4 mm) and #11's (4.47 mm).
So trying to find caps labeled as #10.5's may be like chasing a ghost.
Folks usually either pinch their caps to fit, or dress the nipple so that the smaller size #10's will fit, or they replace their nipples with #11 nipples.
Every cone is made with a slightly different taper which can be tried out with #10 or #11 caps.
Even the European dealers only seem to offer two sizes in the metric equivalents of #10's (4 mm) and #11's (4.47 mm).
So trying to find caps labeled as #10.5's may be like chasing a ghost.
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I'm presently using CCI 11's on a Pietta 1858 44. They're really loose. Pinching them helps, and I'm kinda-sorta getting the hang of it after my first 22 shots, but I think smaller caps would be helpful. Several people recommended 10.5's, but nobody knows where to buy them. I think maybe some of those folks haven't bought caps in quite a while.
junkman_01
member
Use Remington #10 caps. They fit all my Pietta guns as they are supposed to. Pinching caps leads to chain fires.
These folks have them in stock.....http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
These folks have them in stock.....http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
zimmerstutzen
Member
Spend ten minutes and read this short near scholarly exposition concerning percussion caps. It explains a great deal, although, it doesn't address the 3,000 Italian made percussion caps I have in my shooting supplies.
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9093.0
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9093.0
zimmerstutzen
Member
Also, I have been shooting percussion muzzleloaders since 1975. I have never seen 10.5 caps for sale anywhere. I cannot say they did or did not ever exist.
My first Italian revolver, a brass frame Remmie 36 cal. ($25.00 new at Murphy Mart) Didn't shoot worth crap with 11's or 10's. But it shot fair with those red plastic caps from the toy store. It was an offbrand gun and who knows what the taper on the nipples was.
Modern repros are made to much better and more uniform standards than 40 years ago. What does your gun manual say to use?
My first Italian revolver, a brass frame Remmie 36 cal. ($25.00 new at Murphy Mart) Didn't shoot worth crap with 11's or 10's. But it shot fair with those red plastic caps from the toy store. It was an offbrand gun and who knows what the taper on the nipples was.
Modern repros are made to much better and more uniform standards than 40 years ago. What does your gun manual say to use?
junkman_01
member
It was after reading that dissertation by Mako that I standardized on Remington #10 caps for all my C&B revolvers. No problems since, no chain fires, and with a Colt type hammer notch filled with JB weld, no cap pull offs.
From an old Colt Industries pamphlet:
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes, although, as different-sized nipples are sometimes met in specimens of the same model, no hard and fast rule can be given. It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes, although, as different-sized nipples are sometimes met in specimens of the same model, no hard and fast rule can be given. It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."
junkman_01
member
As was previously mentioned, Old Sam had a problem with chain fires because he did not understand the mechanics of it as we do today. I would not put much stock in 'original' Colt instructions in this day and age!
arcticap
Member
poihths said:
Maybe they were talking about buying a pair of shoes.
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junkman_01
member
His original design had the rear of the cylinder enclosed by a shield. He found that it contained the flash of a cap and contributed to chain firing, so when he finally went into production in Paterson NJ, he eliminated the shield.
By 1860 it looks like he had it figured out:
Special Order 94
War Department, Adjutant General's Office
Washington, May 18th, 1860
The Board of Officers appointed by Special Order 94 to "examine and report upon certain improvements recently made in Colt's Revolving Fire Arms," having made the examination as directed, submit the following report:
"The arms were loaded and capped, and then loose powder was scattered around the percussion caps, and also around the balls, when they were so fired without producing any premature discharge, or communication of fire from one chamber to another."
Special Order 94
War Department, Adjutant General's Office
Washington, May 18th, 1860
The Board of Officers appointed by Special Order 94 to "examine and report upon certain improvements recently made in Colt's Revolving Fire Arms," having made the examination as directed, submit the following report:
"The arms were loaded and capped, and then loose powder was scattered around the percussion caps, and also around the balls, when they were so fired without producing any premature discharge, or communication of fire from one chamber to another."
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
I'm going to guess that whoever recommended going with the #10.5 caps was thinking of what some people call a #10.75 cap, which is in actuality the German company, Dynamit Noble's RWS No. 1075 cap. These have a slightly tighter fit than the # 11's. Dynamit Noble cap numbers don't follow the "Normal" #10, #11 convention. I have several tins of Dynamit Noble caps. Some No. 55's, No. 1075's, and No. 1075 PLUS's. All are in the range of a #10 or #11 cap.
If you want to try out the No. 1075's you can find them at Dixie...
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3722
Dixie calls them German #11 Percussion Caps, but the photo is clearly of a tin of No. 1075 PLUS's
If you want to try out the No. 1075's you can find them at Dixie...
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3722
Dixie calls them German #11 Percussion Caps, but the photo is clearly of a tin of No. 1075 PLUS's
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Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
To label the tin with a size from #9 through #13 (or sometimes beyond)
I probably should have said labeling convention. "Normal" meaning the discussion has been revolving around #10 and #11, and even #10.5 caps. CCI and Remington label their tins as either #10 caps or #11 caps. Dynamit Noblel tins are not marked as #10 caps or #11 caps, but are marked with the Dynamit Noblel part number e.g., No. 55, or No. 1075
bonza
Member
I've used a lot of the RWS #1075 caps over the years, but haven't seen any #55 caps for ages. They are slightly longer the #1075 & are designed for use on rifles, I think, as they are too long for revolver nipples.
I now use CCI #11 on all my percussion guns, other than muskets. I had over a thousand of the #1075+ (green label) caps but I was getting terrible accuracy out of my .32 bullet rifle with them, had always used the older 1075caps (red label) before, switched to CCI #11 caps & accuracy returned to normal. The #1075+ are a lot hotter, maybe ok for hunting & plinking, but not serious target work, at least in my guns.
I now use CCI #11 on all my percussion guns, other than muskets. I had over a thousand of the #1075+ (green label) caps but I was getting terrible accuracy out of my .32 bullet rifle with them, had always used the older 1075caps (red label) before, switched to CCI #11 caps & accuracy returned to normal. The #1075+ are a lot hotter, maybe ok for hunting & plinking, but not serious target work, at least in my guns.
I picked up a can of the #10 Remingtons and they seemt to fit the nipples on the Pietta 1858 just fine. I haven't yet actually fired the guns with them, but they stick tight when I thump the gun around or spin the cylinder vigorously.
So I think I've solved my problem.
Lots of good stuff about percussion caps in this thread!
Bob
So I think I've solved my problem.
Lots of good stuff about percussion caps in this thread!
Bob
zimmerstutzen
Member
The amazing thing, is that the difference in internal size is so small, but makes so much difference in function. (Guess size does matter)
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