offthepaper
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,446
Yes they're having some real problems with their cops in that county recently.
South Carolina LEO in VA
- Thread starter davhina
- Start date
- Status
Yes they're having some real problems with their cops in that county recently.
1) Pay for Off-duty Carry & 2) Probably a National Problem
One of my graduate students' is married to a state trooper here in Michigan. She said that the department pays him extra wages, to carry while off-duty, and further added that it is not an insignificant amount of money! I question, and very seriously question, do departments have a slidng scale for off-duty carry pay? Carry with no interventions = $500.00/month? Add $100.00/per incident deterred? Something other than stupidity and ego must be driving this common sense to fly out the window. How many other departments pay their officers to carry off-duty?
Regardless, we have had this problem in Michigan. The case I have in mind, the off-duty cop was behind the person, then pulled in-front-of (cutting off the person) and slamming on the brakes causing an accident. Off-duty cop then bransdished a pistol, and arrested the woman. After 19 months, charges were dropped? Huh???
Doc2005
One of my graduate students' is married to a state trooper here in Michigan. She said that the department pays him extra wages, to carry while off-duty, and further added that it is not an insignificant amount of money! I question, and very seriously question, do departments have a slidng scale for off-duty carry pay? Carry with no interventions = $500.00/month? Add $100.00/per incident deterred? Something other than stupidity and ego must be driving this common sense to fly out the window. How many other departments pay their officers to carry off-duty?
Regardless, we have had this problem in Michigan. The case I have in mind, the off-duty cop was behind the person, then pulled in-front-of (cutting off the person) and slamming on the brakes causing an accident. Off-duty cop then bransdished a pistol, and arrested the woman. After 19 months, charges were dropped? Huh???
Doc2005
Beagle-zebub
Member
Huh. Do you remember that video from a few months back of the lady getting pulled over by an apparently on-duty South Carolina cop (it seemed to be video footage from his own cruiser), who was swearing and had his gun lined up on her?
I second the opinion that it is improper to question the behavior of someone who is being held at gunpoint--even the smartest people are capable of acting irrationally in such a situation. I know I've posted this before, but as Oliver Wendell Holmes II once said, "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an upturned knife." People get training upon entering the military so that they act automatically in such situations; typical people (such as this 18 year-old girl), on the other hand, just have to wing it. Give her a break.
I second the opinion that it is improper to question the behavior of someone who is being held at gunpoint--even the smartest people are capable of acting irrationally in such a situation. I know I've posted this before, but as Oliver Wendell Holmes II once said, "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an upturned knife." People get training upon entering the military so that they act automatically in such situations; typical people (such as this 18 year-old girl), on the other hand, just have to wing it. Give her a break.
Last edited:
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
if that is what happened, that is one stupid cop. may be a case of rookie-itis, there are alot of new cops that sometimes have a chip on their shoulder. doesnt appear that a gun needed to be exhibited during this entire incident.
unfortunately this is one bad apple that makes alot of other cops look bad. i dont think this is necessarily representative of the entire LE community, so we have to remember that.
unfortunately this is one bad apple that makes alot of other cops look bad. i dont think this is necessarily representative of the entire LE community, so we have to remember that.
Titan6
member
i dont think this is necessarily representative of the entire LE community, so we have to remember that.
Can't be. There would be cop related shootings everywhere every couple of minutes otherwise. We expect cops to be inhuman but they make the same stupid mistakes as everyone else, the impacts are just greater.
He was a rookie out on his own and made a bunch of mistakes he will be punished for and move on.
Can't be. There would be cop related shootings everywhere every couple of minutes otherwise. We expect cops to be inhuman but they make the same stupid mistakes as everyone else, the impacts are just greater.
He was a rookie out on his own and made a bunch of mistakes he will be punished for and move on.
Don't care about her reaction. I answered the question and stand by my answer. If the problem ever happens to the Questioner or you try and remember the tactic, it may save your life.
As to staying there while he walked up with a gun that was STUPID!! The tactic for that is back over him and then RUN AWAY in the car.
pacodelahoya
Member
Well, I'm not so sure he is a rookie, he is 41 years old and in training with Greenville Pd. He could very easily be a transref from another jurisdiction and simply be on his probational period. I have emailed the reporter for more details. I'll post if and when I get them.
Rookie- itis, is that a legal term? Don't matter, doesn't cut it with a 41 year old man.
Rookie- itis, is that a legal term? Don't matter, doesn't cut it with a 41 year old man.
pacodelahoya
Member
Update
So, not a rookie.
So, not a rookie.
pacodelahoya
Member
I wonder if anything is brewing with this case????
Boy howdy, and 8 year veteran of the DC force huh????
Boy howdy, and 8 year veteran of the DC force huh????
RNB65
Member
30 cal slob
Member
You know what, people drive WAY TOO FAST along that stretch of I-81.
I drove through there not to long ago and I was happy to do SEVENTY FIVE in the right hand lane and STILL some people were tailgating me. IN THE RIGHT HAND FREAKING LANE!
That same day I witnessed a HORRIBLE FATAL THREE TRUCK ACCIDENT across the state line in Butner, NC.
What is it with the VA and NC plates?!!! (I know, I know the LEO was from SC). NASCAR country?
People drive like lunatics down there and I've seen the worst of driving in NYC and Boston.
I drove through there not to long ago and I was happy to do SEVENTY FIVE in the right hand lane and STILL some people were tailgating me. IN THE RIGHT HAND FREAKING LANE!
That same day I witnessed a HORRIBLE FATAL THREE TRUCK ACCIDENT across the state line in Butner, NC.
What is it with the VA and NC plates?!!! (I know, I know the LEO was from SC). NASCAR country?
People drive like lunatics down there and I've seen the worst of driving in NYC and Boston.
Drive around Metro Detroit. They'll road-rage you for pulling out in front of them, even if you do so a full 1/2 mile down the road in rfont of them, in a 25 MPH zone. Some people just have emotional problems. It's a shame. In all seriousness, I feel for the LEOs family.
30 cal slob
Member
Doc, I was BORN IN and GREW UP in Detroit. Believe me, MI drivers are not as bad as loopy NYC/Boston drivers. VA and NC drivers have more discipline but drive WAAAAY TOO FAST.
Titan6
member
Not a rookie. Sure was wrong about that.
But a former DC LEO. This makes a lot of sense if you have ever had any dealings with them. A couple of decades ago I took a second job working nights moving office furniture out of an old building in DC. Every night at about 3AM we would roll out of town up M Street in the moving van to the Key Bridge. Every night there would be a paddy wagon parked outside of whichever bar was having a rough night. In the back of the wagon we could look down from the van and we would see in the back window the police beating the crap out of whatever drunks they had arrested that night. It was every single night of the week. Some nights they would use their sticks some nights just beating people with their gloved fists. You could not see it from the street because the window was so high. Most of the time you could see the guy was cuffed to the bar in the wagon. This is the nice part of town, I wondered what was going on in the rough part of town...
What flys in the District does not fly in the rest of the country. The police are pretty sure in the District that most compliant citizens are disarmed. It so makes sense in context, he walks up to the window, shows his big bad gun, civilian cowers in fear. He gets his satisfaction. He probably didn't even think he had done anything wrong until the SP showed up and drew down on him. This guy deserves jail no doubt. But might it not be the fault of the department that he grew up to be a big policeman in? Certainly this was learned behavior...
But a former DC LEO. This makes a lot of sense if you have ever had any dealings with them. A couple of decades ago I took a second job working nights moving office furniture out of an old building in DC. Every night at about 3AM we would roll out of town up M Street in the moving van to the Key Bridge. Every night there would be a paddy wagon parked outside of whichever bar was having a rough night. In the back of the wagon we could look down from the van and we would see in the back window the police beating the crap out of whatever drunks they had arrested that night. It was every single night of the week. Some nights they would use their sticks some nights just beating people with their gloved fists. You could not see it from the street because the window was so high. Most of the time you could see the guy was cuffed to the bar in the wagon. This is the nice part of town, I wondered what was going on in the rough part of town...
What flys in the District does not fly in the rest of the country. The police are pretty sure in the District that most compliant citizens are disarmed. It so makes sense in context, he walks up to the window, shows his big bad gun, civilian cowers in fear. He gets his satisfaction. He probably didn't even think he had done anything wrong until the SP showed up and drew down on him. This guy deserves jail no doubt. But might it not be the fault of the department that he grew up to be a big policeman in? Certainly this was learned behavior...
Libertylover
Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2006
- Messages
- 172
120 days!?!?! You can bet your butt that if this was a civilian road raging, the guy would have been convicted of several felony counts (which, if the story is accurate, seems justified) and the anti-gunners would be in an uproar!!!
Crap like this just gets us serfs into an even worse mood when we have to deal with these JBT's. You people wonder why you get no respect? You need to EARN respect!
Crap like this just gets us serfs into an even worse mood when we have to deal with these JBT's. You people wonder why you get no respect? You need to EARN respect!
Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
It seems ironic to me that South Carolina refuses to recognize concealed weapons permits from any state that does not have at least the same training requirement for its permit holders.
Perhaps South Carolina has higher standards for its CWP holders than it does for its police officers?
Perhaps South Carolina has higher standards for its CWP holders than it does for its police officers?
SouthpawShootr
Member
Seems to me they could have thrown the book at him for that juicy little comment as well.
Come on, 2 misdemeanors?
Doesn't VA have a road rage statute as well?
Seems to me the prosecutor was a little wet behind the ears on this one. Or maybe sleeping.
Well, that tape had to have been made available to defense attorneys during the discovery process. That comment is just stupid. Politicians say that all the time when they get caught, so often that nobody believes it.
SouthpawShootr
Member
Found it:
VA Code § 46.2-868.1. Aggressive driving; penalties
A. A person is guilty of aggressive driving in Virginia if (i) the person violates one or more of the following:§ 46.2-802 (Drive on right side of highways),§ 46.2-804 (Failure to observe lanes marked for traffic),§ 46.2-816 (Following too closely),§ 46.2-821 (Vehicles before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right--of--way),§ 46.2-833.1 (Evasion of traffic control devices),§ 46.2-838 (Passing when overtaking a vehicle),§ 46.2-841 (When overtaking vehicle may pass on right),§ 46.2-842 (Driver to give way to overtaking vehicle),§ 46.2-842.1 (Driver to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highway),§ 46.2-843 (Limitations on overtaking and passing), any provision of Article 8 (§ 46.2-870 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 46.2 (Speed), or§ 46.2-888 (Stopping on highways); and (ii) that person is a hazard to another person or commits an offense in clause (i) with the intent to harass, intimidate, injure or obstruct another person.
B. Aggressive driving shall be punished as a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, aggressive driving with the intent to injure another person shall be punished as a Class 1 misdemeanor. In addition to the penalties described in this subsection, the court may require successful completion of an aggressive driving program.
VA Code § 46.2-868.1. Aggressive driving; penalties
A. A person is guilty of aggressive driving in Virginia if (i) the person violates one or more of the following:§ 46.2-802 (Drive on right side of highways),§ 46.2-804 (Failure to observe lanes marked for traffic),§ 46.2-816 (Following too closely),§ 46.2-821 (Vehicles before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right--of--way),§ 46.2-833.1 (Evasion of traffic control devices),§ 46.2-838 (Passing when overtaking a vehicle),§ 46.2-841 (When overtaking vehicle may pass on right),§ 46.2-842 (Driver to give way to overtaking vehicle),§ 46.2-842.1 (Driver to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highway),§ 46.2-843 (Limitations on overtaking and passing), any provision of Article 8 (§ 46.2-870 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 46.2 (Speed), or§ 46.2-888 (Stopping on highways); and (ii) that person is a hazard to another person or commits an offense in clause (i) with the intent to harass, intimidate, injure or obstruct another person.
B. Aggressive driving shall be punished as a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, aggressive driving with the intent to injure another person shall be punished as a Class 1 misdemeanor. In addition to the penalties described in this subsection, the court may require successful completion of an aggressive driving program.
The Undertoad
Member
Do you know what you're talking about? 120 days to serve for two misdemeanor convictions is a big deal in Virginia. I see people convicted of DUI's all day long getting a 30 day sentence with 28 days suspended...
RNB65
Member
I was shocked he got any jail time. I figured his lawyer would plea bargain it down to a fine and suspended sentence.
Titan6
member
Figure he probably started at FA and worked his way down from there. Four months in the big house for a LEO is a long time. I hope he runs into some of his former associates from the District.
SouthpawShootr
Member
While I certainly believe this guy merited more charges/jail time, I think it's pretty clear he's toast. He is probationary. I've seen officers dismissed during the probationary period for far less than something like this. He used a city issued weapon for this nonsense. That made the city liable if, for instance, he went over the edge and shot this woman. Further, I'll wager his carreer as a police officer is over. No department would hire such a volatile individual in a job with so much discretion. The b/g checks done during pre-employment will turn this incident up.
Beatnik
Member
No department would hire him now, except perhaps the DC police.
I have driven that stretch of 81 regularly. In my 1990 3/4 ton van. With 240000 miles. At 80 MPH. Safely.
People with newer cars don't have any excuse except not wanting to get hit with a ticket. If you're not comfortable with it, vote for people who will stop punishing railroads. That way the trucks disappear, and people too scared to operate a car might be able to get somewhere without driving. That leaves the rest of us to drive at reasonable speeds, like 75-90.
But don't tell me I'm being unsafe. I'm doing 15mph more than you. If you were standing still and I was driving at 15mph, you wouldn't think like this.
That said, I'm glad he's doing time, even if it's in jail-lite.
I have driven that stretch of 81 regularly. In my 1990 3/4 ton van. With 240000 miles. At 80 MPH. Safely.
People with newer cars don't have any excuse except not wanting to get hit with a ticket. If you're not comfortable with it, vote for people who will stop punishing railroads. That way the trucks disappear, and people too scared to operate a car might be able to get somewhere without driving. That leaves the rest of us to drive at reasonable speeds, like 75-90.
But don't tell me I'm being unsafe. I'm doing 15mph more than you. If you were standing still and I was driving at 15mph, you wouldn't think like this.
That said, I'm glad he's doing time, even if it's in jail-lite.
- Status