South Carolina Part Time Resident

[bearcreek]

Remember, we’re talking about New York.

Good point. Man, that'd suck.

I am going to explore this. And you are correct a good FFL. When I first bought the property I found a good LGS went in made friends, all retired LEOS, was even offered a job. I will sell you anything you want, no worries. Did not need anything at the time, so I did not take him up on it. Fast forward two years, different counter person, different answer. I had in hand my deed, tax and utility bills for that very reason.

Obvious question perhaps, but have you checked with more FFL's?

 

[wcwhitey]

Easy, burglary, then have to report. Remember it’s not something that I will be there for all the time. Already a shotgun there, that’s easy simple police report.

 

[wcwhitey]

Two to be exact, Covid has limited travel and while there quite a few places were by appointment only. Strange new world.

 

[bearcreek]

Two to be exact, Covid has limited travel and while there quite a few places were by appointment only. Strange new world.

Might be worth a few phone calls. Lots of gun stores in SC.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Removed by poster

 

[dogtown tom]

.......

If the FFL knows what they are doing the can use the persons Tax bill, Lease etc to show maintaing a residence. (if the rent a condo or interval ownership etc,) they also will need a picture ID An out of State license can be shown with those other items but that is whn many FFLs go inot shock and give up!....

Horsehockey.
First, if the "FFL knows what they are doing" they won't follow your advice above. A simple reading of the instructions on the Foorm 4473 explain what is required if the government issued photo ID does not show buyers current residence address.

Second, what's required? Certainly not a lease. Specifically....the buyers must provide government issued documentation showing his name and current residence address in that state. Leases, bank statements, cell phone, credit card or cable TV bills are not government issued documents. A utility bill may be used if from a government entity, but if from a private utility provider....heck no. Amazingly, I have to explain multiple times every month that Spectrum, Chase and Dr Bob the vet on the corner are not government entities.

Yes, a tax bill works, as does motor vehicle registration, hunting or fishing licenses, voter registration card and hundreds of others. Don't have one? Then write a letter to a local government asking some mundane question and requesting a written response.

 

[dogtown tom]

My recommendation;
As a conservation enforcement officer I frequently dealt with this regarding multiple state residents.
Since you own property, it Greatly simplifies things.
1. Take your deed, ........

No, don't take a deed.
A deed is not a government issued document, its a document registered with a government.
It does not meet the ATF requirement in federal law.

 

[hk940]

Is there any law that you have seen, as to how NYS could ever enforce the rule ( the permitting authority does not "wish" me to house my handguns in another state (they used the term "wish" is it law?) about not storing one of the pistols on your permit in NYS?.
How long have you had the permit and how many pistols are on it? Has the state ever come to your house to check?
How would they know you took one to SC, unless they came to your house (they better have a warrant) and wanted see them.
If it ever comes to that it would be a good thing to have one in SC!

 

[bearcreek]

Is there any law that you have seen, as to how NYS could ever enforce the rule ( the permitting authority does not "wish" me to house my handguns in another state (they used the term "wish" is it law?) about not storing one of the pistols on your permit in NYS?.

There's no law, but there doesn't have to be a valid law for a person to get in trouble with the "authorities". See post 25.

 

[heyjoe]

There's no law, but there doesn't have to be a valid law for a person to get in trouble with the "authorities". See post 25.

They would revoke his permit. He wouldnt be arrested. There is no law involved only policy of that particular county or city where he got his permit. How would they find out he has a firearm stored in SC? they most likely wouldnt unless something went wrong.

 

[bearcreek]

They would revoke his permit.

Yes, probably/maybe.

He wouldnt be arrested.

Hopefully, but there's no way to know that for sure.

There is no law involved only policy of that particular county or city where he got his permit.

I know.

How would they find out he has a firearm stored in SC?

I don't know. They might not find out, or they might. That's a risk that a person has to assess for themselves.

they most likely wouldnt unless something went wrong.

and therein lies the rub.

 

[heyjoe]

Yes, probably/maybe. Hopefully, but there's no way to know that for sure.I know.I don't know. They might not find out, or they might. That's a risk that a person has to assess for themselves.and therein lies the rub.

I know, i live here, ive been carrying here for 27 years.I dont know whats going on in idaho but i know what is going on here

 

[hk940]

(1) you said the permitting authority does not “wish” you to house your handguns in another state, I’m no lawyer but wish, is a far cry from shall not. (2) if you are a retired PO why can’t you just carry the handgun with you under HR 218? the next time you drive to SC or check it into your baggage the next time you fly. Do you always fly and never drive?
A question I just thought about, is if you can carry nation wide under HR218, why do you even need a NYS permit?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...you said the permitting authority does not “wish” you to house your handguns in another state, I’m no lawyer but wish, is a far cry from shall not. ....

Phooey! This is New York. New York law (which has not been ruled by a court to be invalid) gives broad discretion to firearm permitting authority.

And I am a lawyer.

 

[hk940]

If you reread post #38, I said there is a difference between "wish" and "shall". Also why would he need a NYS permit at all if he can carry under HR218?

 

[Frank Ettin]

If you reread post #38, I said there is a difference between "wish" and "shall". Also why would he need a NYS permit at all if he can carry under HR218?

HR218 doesn’t necessarily obviate the need for a NY resident to have a permit to possess a handgun.

 

[denton]

An idea worth mentioning again....

As far as federal firearms laws are concerned, the word "residence" is not defined. You can have multiple residences. Any place where you commonly return and live can be a residence. If you routinely spend some time in SC, you're a resident there.

I'd consider getting an SC concealed carry permit, showing your SC address. Seems like it would solve a lot of problems. With that in hand, an SC gun store doesn't need to know any of the back story. Hey, BTW, that permit is also good here in Utah though it appears that we will be getting "constitutional carry".

 

[Frank Ettin]

....As far as federal firearms laws are concerned, the word "residence" is not defined. ...

That's not correct. "State of residence" is defined for the purposes of the GCA of 1968. See 27 CFR 478.11:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels to the United States on a three-week vacation to State X. A does not have a state of residence in State X because A does not have the intention of making a home in State X while on vacation. This is true regardless of the length of the vacation.

Example 4.

A, an alien, travels to the United States to work for three years in State X. A rents a home in State X, moves his personal possessions into the home, and his family resides with him in the home. A intends to reside in State X during the 3-year period of his employment. A is a resident of State X.​

 

[RickD427]

HR218 doesn’t necessarily obviate the need for a NY resident to have a permit to possess a handgun.

^^^THIS^^^

Please also consider the following:

The LEOSA (HR 218 from the 108th Congress - the "HR" numbers get reused every two years) provides that qualified law enforcement officers and qualified retired officers may carry a firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce (gotta love the qualifying language for the commerce clause). The federal law trumps contrary state law, but only to the extent of the federal law and that's with regard to the carrying of firearms.

The issue of possessing firearms may, or may not, be a different story.

The state of Hawaii has not been supportive of the LEOSA and has imposed state law restricting the possession of firearms by visiting LEOs while recognizing their right to carry firearms that are lawfully possessed. Several law enforcement representative groups have discussed the making of a legal challenge. I haven't followed the issue closely and don't know where it stands, but the main argument is that the right to possess is necessarily incorporated into the right to carry. But it's important to point out that it's only argument at this point. We don't know if it's a winning argument.