South Korean gun legislation?

[grimjaw]

I had a discussion tonight with a man of South Korean descent. He lives in Mississippi, although I am unsure if he's a US Citizen. Forgive the lack of grammar/spelling; this was done over internet relay chat (and started because he pasted a link to Oleg's work). He made these three assertions:

1. guns are unnecessary to civilians
2. guns make deaths more likely in violent situations
3. gun ban isn't impossible

anyhow, back to the point. getting rid of guns in most parts of america will take a few years. maybe even a decade or two. but the reward will be tremendous and i can guarantee you that it IS possible to ban guns. how will citizens protect themselves from criminals then? heh most citizens do just fine even now.

ban production of guns not intended for the military and the law enforcement. more importantly, control ammunition strictly. i don't know if buying back is a good idea but banning and giving fines to people who refuse to return their guns would work in a similar way. that's what they did in south korea.

not that the south korean constitution is the role model for the rest of the world or anything ;p but as far as gun control is concerned, it works over there.

i think there will be soldiers and policemen who will occassionally fail to report the chemical imbalance in their brains before going on killing sprees. but the total number of kills they can have will be much, MUCH lower than the number of current gun deaths in america, if south korea is any indication.

when a south korean college student with bad neurochemical imbalance is allowed to easily purchase guns there's a better chance of a lot of people getting killed than when guns weren't so easy to buy

<HIM> think about chances. if guns were so illegal that you had to get it from some filthy dangerous place instead of a legally owned legitimate business in a safe area, don't you think there's less chance of him getting that gun?
<ME> don't ask me, I'm sane

At the end of the discussion he said:

i've had some points but your resistance has been so numerous in quantity that i will have to continue this argument some other time.

Anyway, since neither of us knew the exact situation, I was wondering if any THR folks had lived in South Korea in the last ten years or so and/or knew something about how firearms are legislated there. The gentleman I was talking to said that hunting with rifles is allowed, but that firearms ownership for most is not.

jm

 

[Jacka L Ope]

<ME> don't ask me, I'm sane

Hehe. I bet that point went over well.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Whatever, there's plenty of violent crime in South Korea. Rapes and sexual assaults against women are VERY high. Most women don't report it out of shame. They don't want to shame themselves or families. One of my Korean friends talks about how she used to be groped on the subway every morning to school in Seoul. I said, "you know, in many US states, you can use lethal force if you are being sexually assaulted." She kind of shrugged it off. As far as I'm concerned, that fellow you talked to should keep his mouth shut or just move back to South Korea if he thinks it's so great there.

 

[esheato]

I'm in South Korea.

I work with a bunch of bilingual Americans. The young women say the comments are the worst on the subways. The older Korean gentlemen assume the Americans don't speak their language and talk about all kinds of foul stuff.

As far as the gun laws, I have no idea. I don't have any Korean friends...

Ed

 

[Sunray]

After a rather extensive Yahoo net search, the only thing I could find about South Korean gun legislation is that firearms ownership is banned. None of the sites I looked at were exactly reliable sources though. Lots of gums flapping about the Virginia Tech murders. Nothing whatsoever on any South Korean government sites. However, one or two travel sites suggest a visitor can take one hunting rifle that must be registered with the SK police and to expect trouble getting it in.
There are apparently Russian criminals busy smuggling firearms and ammo into SK. It's supposedly easy to buy an illegal gun in the 'red light' districts of Busan(Pusan) as long as you have money. Figures.

 

[jonsidneyb]

Anyoung Hasihmnikka

 

[jonsidneyb]

hmmm

I can't go back and edit my spelling error so I will try again here.

Anyoung Hashimnikka

 

[grimjaw]

Rapes and sexual assaults against women are VERY high.

Prince Yamato, he freely admitted that South Korea had a very high sex crime rate. He also said that the violence rate is very high but that since people have no guns they can't do much damage (his phrasing, not mine).

I also told him about Woo Bum-kon, a police officer from South Korea, architect of the largest mass murder in modern times. He hadn't heard of the incident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

Still looking for legislation.

jm

 

[natjan]

That Korean guy was frankly talking nonsense, in the first instance you simply cannot compare S Korea with the US, or any other far eastern country with any western country. The two have very different populations, S Korea has a very low crime rate, getting robbed is very rare, no one is worried to walk the streets of Seol at night, you cannot say the same about NY. If that guy wants to compare like for like he would only have to look at the situation in the UK where since 1997 handguns have been banned, has this reduced the crime rate involving firearms? ( i'm sure most reading this know the answer ) All this legislation did was to arm the criminal element ( who else would buy someting that was illeagal ) It also seems thst the same is happening in South Africa, where the once oppressed people who now run the country are getting there own back buy introducing unfair gun laws, again it seems that this has left the bandits a free hand to do as they please.
I would also like to add that out of the 10 Korean people i have met, i can honestly say 9 of them ( IMHO ) were absolute loony tunes, e.g, i had a woman who was renting a property said she was being abused as the landlord had the temerity to send her letters when she did not pay the rent. I replied it was normal for landlords to ask for their rent, her reply, "well that's why i dont like people", i found it funny at the time, but recent events have made me think.

 

[LawBot5000]

Asians, especially Korean and Japanese, suppress individuality from an early age. Obedience to the group trumps the needs of the individuals. These people never participated in the european enlightenment or any other philosphy that concerned the rights of individuals. Instead that whole continent has had centuries of stable, centralized authority and their cultures have adapted to this reality.

While geographical barriers made lasting tyranny or widespread conquest very costly in europe, lack of such barriers encouraged it in asia. How does your culture respond when government has been an utterly invincible force for a thousand years? When all scientific and cultural advancement takes a second place to the interests of the rulers? When no backlash of popular opinion has any effect because the government does not fear revolt? As a result, asians (as a group) tend to be champs at working hard and conforming to the group identity but they completely suck at creating new things or or taking individual action that might threaten the group.

And because they are still human beings, they have the same incidence of people that can't cope in society and the same resulting violence and death as here. Only thanks to cultural differences, people tend to kill themselves when they dont fit in, rather than killing others.

You couldnt pay me enough money to live in an asian society. I would be planting bombs and setting fires before the week was over. The mongolians are the closest thing to free people in that corner of the world and even they are pretty far off the mark. Oh right, and the australians. There's your cultural argument for you.

I'm personally worried that america would already be headed the same direction if it wasnt for our already being armed combined with our redneck culture and our relative willingness to resort to armed violence.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I've honestly been mulling over the crime rate in the US and from what I've gathered, 99% of the murder rate is usually drug-crime related. Of that 99%, another 95% is basically gang-on-gang, druggie-on-druggie violence. The other 5% is little Suzy getting shot in the crossfire on her bicycle at 1am because her parents are too high to keep her in the house. Think about it, with rare exception, most criminals in the US use guns to scare, not to shoot. Armed bank robberies? Usually a gun is waved around, a demand is made, criminals get a little money and then get caught. I think most crime in the US is usually limited because 1) we own guns 2) we have the death penalty. Which basically means, if we don't kill you for your crime now, we'll kill you later. Is $10K from a bank really worth it?

 

[Elza]

I’ve always wondered why, if where they came from was so great, do they move here in the first place??!!

(Sort of like Yankees moving to Texas and wanting to change things. )

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

(Sort of like Yankees moving to Texas and wanting to change things. )

It's called carpet-bagging, and it is done quite often. Governor of Michigan (socialist Canadian), Governor of Tennessee (I believe he's a New Yorker) and of course Hilary (a sort of reverse carpet bagging - from the south to the north) are just few examples.

 

[obxned]

Thugs will always have guns. Just look how well we keep illegal drugs and illegal people out of the country. Even if no guns existed, several thugs with no weapons or a single thug with a knife or club would have a hay day with a guaranteed unarmed population.

We can't afford enough police to prevent thugs from doing evil things. How many would be enough, 1 per 100? 1 per 10 citizens?

So, as it has been since day 1, your personal safety is something you must take care of personally.

No laws can change these facts. Thugs don't obey laws. If by choice or government edict you are a victim-in-waiting, just how long do you expect your good luck to last?

 

[samtechlan]

Don't forget that Hillary is NOT from the South. She's from Illinois and only moved south to be with Billy.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Don't forget that Hillary is NOT from the South. She's from Illinois and only moved south to be with Billy.

Didnt know that. Guess that explains why she is 18 steps to the left of Bill.

 

[natjan]

You couldnt pay me enough money to live in an asian society. I would be planting bombs and setting fires before the week was over.
You got it bang on the button, which is why you see so many youngsters from those countries moving into western ( english speaking ) countries, where they get some sort of freedom, only ( IMHO ) some of them cannot handle it & you get the inevitable results.

 

[jonsidneyb]

Lawbot,

I am half Korean and half Norwegian.

I think you paint that with too wide of a brush.

There are a lot of things about South Korea that I do not like and of course a ton of things I don't like about North Korea.

Asians cannot be dumped into one basket as they are very different. More important than where my ancestors came from I am a red white and blue flag waving American.

Yes South Korea has gun control just as large parts of Europe and I do think it is a huge mistake but some of what you said is way off the mark.

Japan and South Korea have almost nothing in common except for a fear of China and North Korea.

The fact is that I don't care that much about heritage. My favorite places on earth are Wyoming and Oklahoma. Not a place in Asia where my family has a home on Mt Nomson.

There is violence in South Korea, a lot of it, too much of it but that is not the point at this moment.

The point is some of the stuff you are saying is a complete crock.

What stable governments in Asia??? Where did you pull that out of??? The only borders that remained stable was the main island of Japan but that is not entirely true as the island was divided.

Some people will talk about how ancient China is. The dirt there is not any older than the dirt in Europe. When borders, governments, nationalism, and other factors change you do end up with a different place and the culture also changes. Depending on how you look at it what we call
China today was 7 different counties with different idea and culture. The Chinese didn't rule their own country for the longest time as they were controlled by the Manchu and much of Chinese culture was outlawed, Genghis and Kublai also ruled China and they were Mongolians. There were some things that did act to suppress individuality of people in parts of Asia in a drastic way. Some of the practices of the Ming Dynasty did have a long lasting impact on the thinking of much of China that made it susceptible to a communist take over. Manchuria and China merging into one country occurred as a result in WW2 and Xin ceased to exist. Invincible force for thousands of years my ass. Thousands of years of stable governments across Asia is a farce. Mongolians the most free of the bunch??? Are you talking about the nomads in Mongolia or the people in places like Ulaanbaatar. Asia if a very different place as you travel from place to place with little commonality. Communism did make China an ugly 800 pound gorilla I will grant you.

Inventions....bull, much was invented in Asia as well as Europe.

Asia had both times and places of individual thinking as well as group think as did Europe. Neither was stable but what stability they both did have was at the expense of poor people that history forgot. What stability that Europe had during its development during and moving out of the dark ages was the fact the Bulgaria existed. If not for Bulgaria Europe would have slowed down its progress by centuries and might possibly have become a eastern controlled entity.

I will tell you what is the most different.... The USA is the most different. The connection between the USA and Europe is mainly one of ancestory. The USA is the largest bastion of individual thinking. Europe and Asia both had individual thinkers and individual suppressors. Ask Galileo how free thinking was accepted in Europe. In both Asia and Europe most of the people were subjects. The USA was the great experiment in wide spread semi-limited freedom and you as an American has every right to be very proud of it.

In many ways I think Europe was superior but not in all areas.

It is true that there were some elements and commonality between the Revolution in the United States and the French Revolution but it was also different as well.

It is my opinion that from an individualistic standpoint the USA is the largest bastion of that even though it may be eroding.

It is ok to have opinions and thought but when opinions fly in the face of facts that is really not fair.

I have not intersest in living in Asia again nor do I have an interst in living in Europe. The USA is the only place I want to live. What bugs me is that one can make Asia look like some kind of homogenous place when it is in no way true just as Europe is not a homogenous group.

One of the things I like about the USA is the openminded thinking and freedom but I just saw some pretty closed up thinking just now.

 

[jonsidneyb]

I usually never think of my ancestory. I reject the European half of me and I reject the Asian half of me from a cultural standpoint but like to study the history of both. I reject both because I think like an American.

Lets be a place of truth with all the warts that go along with it. That is what I have thought that the HighRoad tried to be. This is a good forum and blanket statements do not become this place.

 

[grimjaw]

I certainly didn't intend for this thread to drift so far that it reached the Clintons. I asked if anyone had facts on what current legislation of firearms is like South Korea. Thanks for the comments so far, but please limit the focus of the thread.

jm

 

[jonsidneyb]

Sorry about the outburst. I found the comments in this thread to be accurate of the situation with the exception of one post.

This will be a poor analogy but here goes.

If you have a Ted Bundy out there people will accuse him of being horrid which is true, he was. The people will sometime add on stuff that is not ture just to add it on such as he stole car to or something like that.

Asia has alot of problems as do many other places. It is fair to point out the problems there and everywhere else but it is not fair to say stuff that is not quite true.

 

[jonsidneyb]

grimjaw>

You already have it accurately. Firearms are prohibited in South Korea even though soldiers are conscripted for 2 years. A hunting rifle can be had but it is not allowed to be kept at home.

 

[zero_chances]

I have one friend from South Korea, he said guns must be stored at the police office. IIRC he was referring to civilian owned guns. But remember, said friend is in highschool, so he may have not fully understood the law.

 

[LawBot5000]

I think that you are getting riled up because you are too close to the trees to see the forest.

Chinese, koreans and japanese are all heavily into groupthink and youre deluding yourself if you claim otherwise. I've known first, 1.5, 2nd and third generation koreans and IMO Koreans are quite possibly the most conformist and xenophobic people on the entire planet. The mixed race koreans I've known tended to leave a lot of this behind, in all fairness to you. But most koreans are not of mixed ancestry, in case anyone was wondering.

 

[jonsidneyb]

Thats why they have had rioting in the streets. Not recently but in the 50s as well. In the 60s horse mounted ROC's and ROC's escorted my father and myself to get to the Korea House *a goverment building* because of the open street violence.