Spanish Judge Issues Arrest Warrants for 3 US Soldiers

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Mongo the Mutterer

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051019/ap_on_re_eu/spain_us_journalist_death

MADRID, Spain - A judge has issued an international arrest warrant for three U.S. soldiers whose tank fired on a Baghdad hotel during the Iraq war, killing a Spanish journalist and a Ukrainian cameraman, a court official said Wednesday.

Judge Santiago Pedraz issued the warrant for Sgt. Shawn Gibson, Capt. Philip Wolford and Lt. Col. Philip de Camp, all from the U.S. 3rd Infantry, which is based in Fort Stewart, Ga.

Jose Couso, who worked for the Spanish television network Telecinco, died April 8, 2003, after a U.S. army tank crew fired a shell on Hotel Palestine in Baghdad where many journalists were staying to cover the war.

Reuters cameraman Taras Portsyuk, a Ukrainian, also was killed.

Pedraz had sent two requests to the United States — in April 2004 and June 2005 — to have statements taken from the suspects or to obtain permission for a Spanish delegation to quiz them. Both went unanswered.
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Well, isn't that interesting. Lemmee think... oh, yeah we did have a War with Spain before. Once again?

If we allow the international socialists to "indict" and issue "warrants" against US soldiers and citizens, we will be on a greased pole, ending in a big tub of stuff.
 
Well I could see their point if humans or even pets had been killed, but it was just some reporters. I'm surprised at the fuss......
 
Lemme guess, Spain is a signatory to the International Criminal Court? Some schmuck over at Nationstates kept telling us that enough nations had signed that document, that it didn't matter the US didn't - the combined weight of the UN would force us to kowtow to this kangaroo court of terrorists and socialists. Not. What a crock.
 
This will be standard operating proceedure in the future as the European Union tries to proclaim itself a superpower. If they do ever get ahold of a few of our servicemen don't expect the Republicans to do anything other than make noise. The Dems, Repubs, and Euro-socialists are all the same people. They are globalist elitists who think they know what is good for the common serfs.

When this happens (note, not "if") it would be up to individual citizens to defend sovereignty. Ross Perot hired mercenaries to bust out Americans held hostage in Iran. Our president did nothing.
 
Yes, there is an "international arrest warrant." It is handled thru the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Spain is a signatory of the accord. President William J. Clinton also was a signatory of the treaty. He was more than happy to sell out US soldiers. The treaty was never ratified by the US Senate and President Bush revoked Clinton's signature.

That said, 10 years from now when one of those guys goes to the Bahamas or Canada on vacation, local police can still arrest them on that warrant and send them to Spain for trial.
 
A simple response to that from the US should be

a) An official inquiry into if a warrant is justified

b) If the answer to "a" is no, an official request to have the warrant repealed politely worded through the state department.

c) If the answer to "b" is nol, a US warrant issued for the signatory judge...hold US servicemembers hostage to the US and we hold you hostage to your country.

I'd be a lot more concerned about that sort of thing from Belgium in the future than from Spain. I think we'll be seeing a lot more of it.
 
I think this means these soldiers have lost their right to own firearms in the US. Anyone who has a felony conviction from any court in the world loses his US firearms rights. But there was a case on that recently... maybe it has changed?
 
Not to get in the way of a good rant here, but what exactly is the difference between what the Spanish judge has done and the way the U.S. has acted in the past?

Does anyone remember our sending troops into a sovereign nation in order to extract someone charged with violating U.S. law? I'll give you a hint--this wasn't a lowly soldier, but a general who headed up his contry's government. Manuel Noriega still sits in a U.S. prison for violating U.S. law while in his own country.

Now, I'm not saying that I think the Spanish judge should have jurisdiction over U.S. soldiers, but we ought to be consistent. Either countries have jurisdiction over the citizens of other nations, or they don't. The U.S. opened up this can of worms when it was convenient for it, but now there is outrage when the shoe is on the other foot. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

(And now, having used up my monthly allotment of figures of speech, I return you to your normal programming. . . .) :evil:
 
This is bull. If these guys ever wanted to see Europe or the rest of the world, that option has just been taken from them.

If I were president, I would be on World Wide TV today saying that any citizen of the US held under an international warrent would be considered a prisoner of war and that country would be subject to immediate military action to rescue the detainee. Then the process of removing said country's government would commence. Either by assasination, force or all out war.

In the end, this just reinforces my feelings that traveling to Europe is just a waste of time.
 
assuming there were 4 people crew, who is missing from the suit? the driver perhaps?

or the loader? in any case, 2 people are automatically deemed innocent since they never had access to the fire button.
 
That said, 10 years from now when one of those guys goes to the Bahamas or Canada on vacation, local police can still arrest them on that warrant and send them to Spain for trial.
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That's what I was wondering. And I believe that is the effective result -- these guys can't ever take a vacation outside of the United States, without being in danger of being arrested upon arrival at any foreign airport.

I also agree with Seminole. The U.S. does want it both ways. We routinely abduct suspects in other countries, sometimes then transporting them to third countries for "interrogation" by agencies other than our own because, of course, the U.S. would never torture a suspect. But if some other country wants one of us, we act all righteous and say they have no authority.

I wonder if the witness protection program can be made available to these guys. Give them new names and paper trails, and let them live like normal people.
 
we ought to be consistent. Either countries have jurisdiction over the citizens of other nations, or they don't. The U.S. opened up this can of worms when it was convenient for it, but now there is outrage when the shoe is on the other foot. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
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About all that I wish to see in politics, be it local, national or international, is consistency.

Let's put the boot on the other foot - three Spanish soldiers are wanted by the US in connection with deaths of US reporters in country X. The Spanish retort by saying that they have held an investigation and there are to be no charges. Good enough?

I remember the fuss on here when the US signed a new extradition treaty with the UK, which only mirrored the treaty that had been in place from UK to US for some time, and the US Govt had asked for.

Consistency.
 
Well, crimes of murder and mayhem are one thing. Sure, issue warrants.

But in a war zone? Where you're on your own? It's not as if the guys said, "Oh, there's a Newsie! Get'im!"

Under the circumstance, it's the UCMJ that applies.

"In the old days" of occupation duty in Korea, sometimes one of our guys on guard duty would shoot and kill some slicky-boy who'd cut through the fence to come into the camp and steal.

Courtmartial. Found guilty of Manslaughter. Fined one dollar. No double jeopardy, that way.

:), Art
 
There was a huge discussion on another forum including individuals who were on the ground when it happened.

The M1A MBTapparently has sensors which detect things like lasers and such. The tank's sensors were going off. The gunner saw a man standing on a hotel floor holding a black object over his right shoulder and was pointing it at them. They believed that device to be an anti tank missle, and so they fired.


Thats the story I was told.
 
one-shot-one, it was more complicated than that. Including a wreck in the desert during a sandstorm. There are plenty of accounts about the mission out ther.e
 
I don't see how Spanish justice should have any jurisdiction over an incident in Iraq during wartime. I wouldn't assume the US had jurisdiction like that either.

Let's put the boot on the other foot - three Spanish soldiers are wanted by the US in connection with deaths of US reporters in country X. The Spanish retort by saying that they have held an investigation and there are to be no charges. Good enough?
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I don't think our courts would or should have jurisdiction over those soldiers. I certainly wouldn't want one of our judges doing this. That is a diplomatic issue. There are many diplomatic pressures and such that we put forth. If it is that serious, we can always take military action. However, I don't think our laws apply to Spain any more than I think their laws apply to me. The whole international court idea is crap.
 
This Judge...

So he issues an arrest warrant for three U.S. soldiers who were doing their jobs in a warzone where civvies shouldn't be? Is the Spanish government like ours in the way that they issue warnings saying "You shouldn't go here, it's hazardous to your health" or something similar? They were there of their own accord. They new it was a dangerous place. And of all places to stay, why a Baghdad hotel? You would think that it being a warzone and all they wouldn't sit in the middle of it......They'd had been better off with their own troops (don't know if this was before Spain pulled out or not). So when they get killed, it's our soldiers fault that they decided to remain ignorant and not leave? WOW.....what can I say? I'm starting to think this judge is mentally handicapped or taking some really strong drugs......:banghead: :fire: :cuss:
 
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