Spanish Judge Issues Arrest Warrants for 3 US Soldiers

[Aguila Blanca]

And these US soldiers will never be able to travel outside the US again

Probably true

and they will never be able to own firearms in the US again.

Not true. An arrest warrant issued by another country is not a conviction by a court of competent jurisdiction. How do you figure they might be prohibited from owning firearms in the U.S.?

 

[Cosmoline]

I ran into this problem myself. NICS prohibits transfer of a firearm with any person who has an active warrant against them (like Tom Delay, for example). A warrant DOES NOT prohibit ownership, but because the BATF makes its own laws it has decided that an active warrant is enough to prevent purchase. Due to a scheduling screwup I had a bench warrant against me last year for a minor fine issue which I resolved the following week. It was only active for a few days, but the stupid thing has been popping up on the NICS check and causing delays.

That said, I very much doubt a SPANISH warrant would cause problems. OTOH if it gets filed with INTERPOL it might well end up pinging the database.

 

[PATH]

Well I've never been to Spain but I kinda like the music.
Say the ladies are insane there and they sure know how to use it.
They don't abuse it...........
Never gonna lose it.............
I can't refuse it.................

Now back to reality. This is a tempest in a teapot. Spain is a non entity. Empire is gone. Power is gone. Spine is gone. Country run by Socialist pansies.

Tell Spain and EU allies to go pound salt!

 

[Dannyboy]

There are some important points surrounding this issue. Apparently it's more fun to hurl insults and fantasize about war.

Then enlighten us, please.

Oh yeah, the three guys indicted are the tank commander, company commander, and the battalion commander. Just in case anyone thought that was the whole tank crew.

 

[Waitone]

I remember the incident. IIRC our guys were taking fire. Being logic and trained they looked for the highest point around seeking a forward observer. The chosen point was a multi-story hotel. Looking up at the top floors our guys saw a couple of figures in one of the rooms. One had a big think on his shoulder. The other was using binocs. Now in a war zone under those conditions a reasonable human would conclude they were under observation by a forward observer and they acted in a reasonable manner and killed 'em. In this case the stupidity of the Spaniards was indeed painful and deadly.

Maybe the ICC would do better to learn a couple of lessons here. You don't thump matches at the Torch, you don't spit on Superman, and you sure don't act like a forward observer in a freakin' war zone.

 

[cracked butt]

Given the fact that places like France and Switzerland have given us the finger in the past with extraditing criminals to the United States, I see no reason to do what a EU court wants. Does the name Marc Rich ring a bell with anyone? BTW Switzerland is one of the signees of the ICC.

Like someone else already said- if Spain or the ICC wants a couple of our soldiers, come and get them.

Edit: nevermind Marc Rich, after doing a search, I realized that he had been pardoned by Bill Clinton. Criminal super-sleazebag birds of a feather......

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

all i know, is that if Spain ever got their hands on the soldiers, I know alot of Army personnel who would do some black ops mission to get them back. Hell, Id buy a plane ticket to spain to bust them out.

And seriously, its not like anyone important got killed. It was media members, if you kill one 2 more just take their place

 

[coylh]

Dannyboy, it's a double standard for the US to consider Spain's warrant an injustice, while issuing warrants for foreign citizens itself.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171134,00.html

Swiss authorities arrested Adamov on a U.S. warrant May 2, while he was visiting his daughter in the Swiss capital, Bern.

 

[ted murphy]

Not exactly the same circumstance, he was stealing US funds using US based firms. Quite a bit different than something that went down in wartime and without malice or a guilty mind.

I know it's fun to beat up on the US for some, or to try to pick nits with what is done. It's expecially fun to do it when you don't like the president. But when a soldier does something in wartime, the military investigates it. Think it's a war crime? Go to the Hague. Otherwise, go pound sand.
Ted

 

[Cosmoline]

Dannyboy, it's a double standard for the US to consider Spain's warrant an injustice, while issuing warrants for foreign citizens itself.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171134,00.html

Your extremely selective quotation illustrates the weakness of your argument. If you look further in the article, you will see:

Switzerland's Justice Ministry ruled that Adamov must first face charges in U.S. courts, where he has been indicted on charges of conspiracy to transfer stolen money and securities, conspiracy to defraud the United States, money laundering and tax evasion.

Are these troops being charged with defrauding Spain or failing to pay Spanish taxes they owe? I think not.

 

[coylh]

Cosmoline, my argument is not that the underlying "crimes" are equivalent.

I'm saying that both Spain and the United States issue arrest warrants for foreign citizens. Do you disagree with this observation?

 

[Cosmoline]

ALL nations issue arrest warrants for foreign citizens IF they have subject matter jurisdiction and some colorable claim for asserting personal jurisdiction. THAT isn't the problem. The problem is Spain is abusing this power by issuing a warrant for a crime which took place off Spanish soil and did not involve Spain in the slightest bit. There's no personal or subject matter jurisdiction. They have no power over the soliders and no legitimate grounds for asserting power over them.

To my knowledge, no nation but Spain has ever claimed the right to reach out and grab defendants for crimes allegedly committed against its citizens overseas, at least not without destroying the nation in question first and taking over its court system (as with Germany and Japan after WWII). There must always be some firm connection to the issuing nation. For example, if a US serviceman kills five people at a Spanish whore house Spain would have a legitimate claim to issue a warrant to have them brought back to Spain for trial. But Spain has no claim to Iraq and the mere presence of a Spanish civilian taking pictures DOES NOT bring Spanish soil under his feet.

 

[Sam]

Mongo,
We got astates rights issue, you are NOT sending any d@2mn Spaniards to Roswell.

If'n ya try I'll get my local minister to issue a Fatwa agin' you and yer Spaniards. We ain't gonna have it.

Sam

 

[coylh]

Cosmoline, I can see that as a distinction, but it's a slight one to my ears.

Aren't you describing a situation where our local laws (and sense of jurisdiction) trump Spain's local laws? How would you respond to Spain's (theoretical) claim of territorial jurisdiction as part of the Coalition?

 

[spocahp anar]

Bush revoked Clinton's signature.

Didn't know you couldl do that. WOW now how about revoking some of the other bull???? clinton signed.