Spare magazine or 2nd Pistol?

[rpenmanparker]

This topic reminds me of the purportedly censored Groucho Marx line from his '50s TV show regarding overdoing a good thing:

GROUCHO: “Why do you have so many children? (Substitute why do you carry so many guns?) That’s a big responsibility and a big burden.”

MRS. STORY: “Well, because I love my children and I think that’s our purpose here on Earth, and I love my husband.” (You don't have to change this at all.)

GROUCHO: “I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while.”

IOW enough is enough.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

If I were going to carry a spare gun, I would carry it somewhere more accessible than an ankle holster. Said another way, given the choice between a spare gun in an ankle holster and a spare magazine that I can reach without bending down or lifting my leg up, I would take the spare magazine by a huge margin.

Also, if I were concerned about reload times/spare rounds, I will echo the comments already made: I would not carry a gun that took so long to reload that retrieving another pistol from an ankle holster took about the same time.I'm not going to get into the idea of needing a chair to get to a backup gun because that seems like a concept that should be pretty obviously a bad idea needing no explanation. But it's probably worth pointing out that taking a knee in a dynamic encounter like a gunfight limits mobility considerably. If things are really bad enough that a reload is necessary, MOVING during the reload seems like a really good idea. Standing still seems like a very bad idea, standing still and taking a position that limits one's mobility seems like an even worse idea.I understand the problem. I carry a lot of stuff on my belt and in my pockets (cellphone, two knives, multi-tool, flashlight, pistol, keys, wallet, magnifying glass, pen & pencil, pager mandated by work) but I still manage to find a place for a spare mag. I do agree that if you go with pocket carry for your spare mag, it should not share that pocket with anything else.

Two knives AND a multitool......

My working theory of SD is to find cover before even presenting my weapon, if possible- I ain't too nimble these days anyway, so finding a defensible position and staying put is probably a better option for me than shooting and scooting.

That said, much environmental cover is only waist high, so odds are good I'm already crouching before engaging- the ankle at that point isnt very far way. In fact, trying to fish a loaded magazine from a pants pocket while bending or kneeling is akin to trying to extract your wallet while sitting at the drive through window- and we all know how awkward that is!

If I was forced to draw from the ankle while standing, any hard surface works, doesn't have to be a chair. Car tire, store shelf, etc......

Of course any plan goes out the window upon contact with the enemy, and a younger, more mobile fella might be better served with a carry plan that allows for more movement, or even close quarters hand to hand, but for me, this seems to be OK.

Hopefully I never get to test my theory.

 

[bc38]

if i feel i need to have two guns, my first is going to be a long gun or i aint going.

 

[MikeInOr]

It doesn't matter. If the first 7 rounds in my carry gun hasn't dispatched the assailant I am already dead so using that extra weight and space for a snickers bar is far more likely to save my life some day.

 

[JR24]

.....I already have an actual cell phone and a Buck folder on my left side OWB, yet another belt case would be pretty cumbersome and might attract attention. In the back pocket is a pain when driving- literally. In my front pockets are my keys on one side and wallet in the other. I don't want to risk dumping my spare mag when pulling out either...

It does seem to me that maybe rearranging your belt/pocket load would be easier than dealing with a second gun.

I go spare mag owb, flashlight and wallet pocket -- weak side.

Knife (front pocket), gun, cell phone (back pocket) -- strong side.

Keys are clipped to whatever belt loop is handy.

Rear left pocket used to be for the Skoal tin but since I kicked that habit it gets to be empty. If I go back to having a multitool on the belt it will go weak side behind the hip owb.

 

[RedlegRick]

For a very short time I tried an ankle holster, but it was unworkable for me owing to the weight imbalance and the fact my pants kept riding up over it.

My personal load-out on any given day is pretty basic: weapon IWB at the small of my back, one spare mag on my caneside, multitool behind it, and phone holster on the other. My carry piece draws from my left, because I use my right for my walking stick (not an optional piece of kit).
This isn't a problem because I'm somewhat ambidextrous, and my PF-9 fits my left hand better than my right and I'm left eye dominant. I actually shoot better weak hand that strong and have no issues with fast mag swaps, even given the minimal interface of my weapon.
The point I'm trying to make here is, I got enough crap hanging from my waist I'm almost to the point of needing suspenders as it is, another weapon would be more a hindrance than a help, and as another poster said 'if I need two guns somewhere, one is going to be a long arm or I'm not going'.

If that's the case, I'll simply stay away from the area by any means possible and if forced to, use my wits to keep me out of any confrontations. I'm not a cop or a soldier with backup available with a radio call, just a chubby disabled guy who wants to be left alone.

 

[JohnKSa]

Two knives AND a multitool...

AND a spare magazine.

One knife is a mini Swiss Army knife, the other is a large folder. The multitool is a SOG Paratool.

The flashlight is also pretty important to me. I'd give up carrying one of the knives and the multitool before I'd leave the flashlight at home. Maybe even the spare mag too. Being able to see when it's dark is very, VERY important.

...I ain't too nimble these days...

All the more reason that a carry option requiring one to kneel is a bad idea. We did some kneeling exercises in the last pistol class I took and one student fell down while trying to come out of the kneeling position. Besides the loss of mobility that kneeling incurs, increasing the chances of falling down is also a really bad thing.

...I'm already crouching before engaging- the ankle at that point isnt very far way.

Crouching is not as bad. You can still maintain mobility while crouching, and getting in and out of a crouch is very fast and doesn't really increase the risk of falling down.

In fact, trying to fish a loaded magazine from a pants pocket while bending or kneeling is akin to trying to extract your wallet while sitting at the drive through window- and we all know how awkward that is!

Sounds like your best option is a belt pouch then.

If I was forced to draw from the ankle while standing, any hard surface works, doesn't have to be a chair. Car tire, store shelf, etc......

Sure, I understand. But it's all the same--it's a bad idea to need something like a chair/car tire/shelf/etc. handy to retrieve a firearm, or being forced, as an alternative, to go to a mobility limited position.

My impression is that if you spent half as much time thinking about how to carry your mag where you can get to it easily as you have spent coming up with reasons not to, you'd have already solved this problem.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

The flashlight is also pretty important to me. I'd give up carrying one of the knives and the multitool before I'd leave the flashlight at home.

I actually carry two flashlights- my phone has a super bright one built in and my Pico is equipped with an integral light in the gripframe.

IDK, I'm trying this for now, but I'm sure I'll go to a different setup dependent on weather and as different guns go through my carry rotation. But it makes for a fun thought exercise. Lots of good ideas here from everybody.

 

[RedlegRick]

I forgot to mention I carry a light too, in addition to the one on my phone. Nothing fancy, just one of those anodized aluminum cheapies from Auto Zone. Paid eight bucks for it, it's lasted now two years and has a glassbreaker on it. Got it because I lose expensive flashlights.

 

[MedWheeler]

bc38 writes:

if i feel i need to have two guns, my first is going to be a long gun or i aint going.

If I feel the need for even one gun, I ain't going.

I carry not because I need one. I actually don't. I carry because, should that change, the change will likely be sudden, unpredictable, and very desperate in nature.

 

[bc38]

bc38 writes:



If I feel the need for even one gun, I ain't going.

I carry not because I need one. I actually don't. I carry because, should that change, the change will likely be sudden, unpredictable, and very desperate in nature.

AMEN!

 

[Al-jim19]

bc38 writes:



If I feel the need for even one gun, I ain't going.

I carry not because I need one. I actually don't. I carry because, should that change, the change will likely be sudden, unpredictable, and very desperate in nature.

This is something that people who don’t carry or even own guns misunderstand.

It’s unlikely I’ll ever need any gun. I carry a pistol because when I go out in the morning I don’t think I’ll need to fire a shot. If I thought I needed a gun I would avoid whatever situation necessitated that or I would bring a rifle; possibly a few buddies with rifles, armor, and a boatload of spare magazines, vehicles, med stuff....you guys get the idea.

 

[shenck]

Spare mag always. Two spare mags sometimes. I can't remember ever carrying a backup firearm, but it's possible that I may have at sometime in the past.

 

[Nick Ehlers]

So, I was trying to find a good way to pack the spare magazine for my SIG P230 (IWB) the other day when I realized I could actually strap my Beretta Pico on my ankle with less PITA. I ran a couple reloading drills vs the time to draw the second gun and it was a wash, timewise.
Also, my total round count stayed the same.
I've carried this way for the last couple days and I'm digging it.
How 'bout you?

trying to draw a second handgun after your first is a pretty bad idea, the second your first firearm is pointed away from your attacker to draw your secondary they'll just charge you and take your gun and kill you with it, practicing tap rack bang is alot safer and quicker imo. it only takes a second or two for someone to travel the average 21ft of a self defense encounter, and it only takes a fraction of a second for someone to stab you.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

if i feel i need to have two guns, my first is going to be a long gun or i aint going.

Is the same true that if you feel the need to have A gun, that it is going to be a long gun or you ain't going? Either way, you are talking about protecting your life, right?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

trying to draw a second handgun after your first is a pretty bad idea, the second your first firearm is pointed away from your attacker to draw your secondary they'll just charge you and take your gun and kill you with it, practicing tap rack bang is alot safer and quicker imo. it only takes a second or two for someone to travel the average 21ft of a self defense encounter, and it only takes a fraction of a second for someone to stab you.

My experiment was comparing time to reload vs time to draw the backup, not necessarily clearing a jam. Yes of course "tap, rack, bang" would be SOP for a 1st order malfunction. For a 2nd or 3rd, though, drawing your backup would clearly be faster, though, should that very unlikely situation occur.

As far as an attacker surviving my first eight shots AND then pressing his attack either barehanded or with a knife afterwards......this would also be very unlikely. 99.9% of scumbags, once fired upon, either run for the hills or duck and fire their own weapon indiscriminately in your direction- then run.

Oh, and welcome to the Forum Nick!

 

[JeffG]

Ok, I've been lurking on this thread to see if I can offer a perspective that might be useful. I am still ot sure my perspective is useful on this topic. I have to go with the "both" category. During the early part of my LEO career it was revolvers, K frames, L frames, or N frames, it was painfully obvious I had six shots...and then speed loaders.

The window of opportunity for an opponent to exert situational dominance was right there, during that gap.

Being disarmed or losing my main gun in a struggle was always possible. Rural departments dealing dealing with 15-30 minute backup time for the arrival of another officer, makes one think for your own survival. Speed loaders got dropped, jambed and fumbled under stress. A snubbie .38 in the small of the back, or on an ankle was a good bet. I put it to the test on the range, on a regular basis. Always both off duty, if nothing else, to arm a loved one if need be, or arm another off duty officer.
Later, and now, (retired) redundancy is the ultimate in reliability; having more than one option is the way to go. While some might know I am armed, the BUG stays out of sight and has never been part of the conversation.

 

[hdwhit]

Spare magazine or 2nd Pistol?

Neither.

A second pistol is just something else I have to worry about concealing when carrying, storing when it's not on me, remembering to take with me when I leave and remembering to properly secure when I get home.

A second magazine is likewise something that I have to worry about accounting for, something I would have to worry about accessing and changing. I don't anticipate needing more than the magazine that is in the pistol to get me to a position where I can 1) run away from the threat, or 2) have resolved the situation.

I was carrying a gun before I was legally old enough to own one. It was pretty much a necessity for the area I lived in at the time. In the nearly half a century that has transpired, I have never been in a situation where I needed a second gun or a second magazine and I don't expect that to change any time soon.

 

[billybob44]

"In other words I’m seriously considering getting an M&P Compact which hold 15+1 and can use the 17 round mags of a full size. So 16 plus 34 is 50 rounds. If I need that many rounds either I shouldn’t have been there or things are out of control and I’ll be using all of them. Hopefully neither will occur, but I’d rather have 50 rounds with me in a situation like Reginald Denny than less."

^^^Exactly the same with me, but with a Glock Model 19..Bill.

Hokie