Draw your spare magazine with your pistol?

[B yond]

I've been thinking...

It's generally accepted that it's important to practice drawing your carry weapon. It is also generally accepted that it's important to practice clearing malfunctions with your carry weapon.
Many CCWers carry spare magazines which may be used when clearing malfunctions.

I've taken to practicing drawing my weapon AND spare mag from concealment at the same time (weapon with strong hand, mag with weak hand). I've found that I can keep my spare between my middle and ring fingers on my weak hand and still maintain a decent two-handed grip on my pistol (learned this grip from Combat Handgunnery by Mas Ayoob). The whole draw is very fluid and only a slight deviation from my normal draw.

This way, I have my spare in hand should a malfunction occur, and it could save me that fatal second. I don't think it adds any time to my draw.

Anyone else practice this or have a better technique?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I don't like that idea at all.

It increases the chance of bobbling or throwing the gun or magazine, and makes racking the slide more difficult, thus all but requiring carry with round in chamber, which I do not do.

In the unlikely event of a malfunction, tap-rack-bang probably clears it.

 

[David E]

The "Better technique" is to concentrate on getting the gun out fast followed almost immediately by rounds on target.

You're slowing yourself down and screwing yourself up.

Ok, you have a stove pipe jam. You see the round sticking up, as if it's giving you the middle finger. Easy fix, right? No, wait.......you have your hand wrapped around a magazine, so you won't be able to reliably work the slide briskly.

Or, you don't have a jam, but the target(s) requires multiple shots quickly....oh, wait......your grip isn't as solid as it could be if you didn't have that damn magazine in your hand!

If you don't think it adds any time to your draw, then either your standard draw must be very slow, or you haven't compared the draws on a shot timer.

 

[gladi8tr]

That would be good training but I dont carry a spare if I get into somthing that requires more than 17 rds im in big trouble.

 

[B yond]

if I get into somthing that requires more than 17 rds im in big trouble.

Must be nice to live in a free state where you can have more than 10 rounds.

you have your hand wrapped around a magazine, so you won't be able to reliably work the slide briskly.

I don't think you have a good picture of the grip on the magazine. It's not in my hand but between two fingers. I'll see if I can get a pic posted so you can see what I mean. It doesn't interfere with working the slide, at least for me.

It increases the chance of bobbling or throwing the gun or magazine

Good point.

, and makes racking the slide more difficult,

I disagree for reasons outlined above.

thus all but requiring carry with round in chamber, which I do not do.

You're right, I wouldn't want to draw this way without one in the chamber. I avoid striker-fired pistols for CC simply because I'm not comfortable carrying without one in the chamber, and I like to be able to squeeze the trigger again should the chambered round fail to fire.

 

[David E]

It's not good training, it's a bad idea.

Then again, so is not carrying a spare loaded mag.

 

[David E]

I understand your grip with the magazine. I've done it myself with a magazine or a flashlight. It doesn't work as well.

But I don't think you have been put to the test under pressure.

Go get a shot timer, compare the two ways, and get back to us.

 

[B yond]

But I don't think you have been put to the test under pressure.

Hey! I'm the guy keeping keeping America's Malls safe!

 

[David E]

I can see that mag come flying back at you, if you did it at speed....

And holding it that way doesn't give the best index for the reload.

Tell you what, get a shot timer and do this with a 5 yd IPSC target: Hands at sides. At signal, draw (gun and mag) and fire 6 shots to slidelock. Reload, fire 2 more.

Specify if you did it from concealment or not.

I'll do the same. Post your results.

If you want to make it more fun (for me!) have a dummy round somewhere between the 2nd and 5th shot. This would require a rapid slide rack, of course, and would show at least one more problem with your technique.

 

[B yond]

No thanks David E. I'm not trying to prove anything here. I'm just sharing ideas.

 

[Erik]

In the event that you need your full attention and your support hand for an essential task, I do not advise dividing your attention by dedicating your support hand to a non-essential task.

 

[possum]

maintain a decent two-handed grip

you don't want any more handicapping you in a fight. you are gonna have enough to worry about. you don't need to be juggling around a handgun and a spare mag with a "decent" 2 hand grip, you need all the advantage that you can get.

if there are loved ones in the ao, there is a good possibility that one of your arms/hands is gonna be busy controlling them, pushing them away/ picking up a small child etc.

god forbid you get hit in a arm, so now with your technique you don't just have to worry about doing a one hand reload, now th emag that was in the other hand will be dropped. you will have to get it off the ground, right there in the killzone the "X" if you will. then reload.

there are many scenarios that make this a bad idea. i am not trying to pick on you, or be a dick, but i strongly suggest that you saty away from this, it is something that i feel strongly would get you hurt or killed in a real life dynamic critical incident.

 

[possum]

That would be good training but I dont carry a spare if I get into somthing that requires more than 17 rds im in big trouble.

what is the number one problem associated with auto loaders?magazines! lets take this example,

you engage a threat, fire 2-3 rds have a double feed. you take the appropriate action. lock rip rack, rack, rack, replace (but you can't replace becoause you only have one magazine, and most likely a bad one at that hince the double feed/ type 3 malfunction) rack access and continue the fight.

i have said it 100 times, people have this false security with handguns, they suck they really do when it comes to stopping a threat, we carry them out of convinence and because i can't carry a rifel around. example cop shoots suspect 22 times, 17 of which in the high center chest, suspect died after the last round but it still took him a long time to parish. i will try to find that link.

 

[Jeff White]

Think about what you are doing for a second. You are giving up a lot of control for your handgun, putting yourself in a position where you may drop your spare magazine and lose it (many of us have a lanyard on our hand held lights for a reason) tied up your off hand in case you need to use it to deflect a HTH attack or open a door or use your cell phone to call the police.......

Bad idea all the way around.

 

[shootistpd27]

I would spend more time cleaning my weapon, making sure that any forseable malfunctions are avoided. If you suffer alot of malfunctions then it would be a good idea to take your weapon to a gunsmith for maintenance or just get a new one. I use the roll rack tap ready technique. My glock has misfed only once and that was in the academy when we had to use badly reloaded rounds. I have to get dummy rounds just to have opportunity to deal with a malfunction. Grabbing the mag like you say is a waste of time and energy that is exacerbating the likelyhood of an operator error.

 

[gladi8tr]

Possum, thats where proper maintence and gear check and proper training come into play. Shoot what you carry often and properly maintence it along with proper firearm selection and you wont have problems I carry a G17 and G23 and rotate carry mags and shoot both firearms alot. I am 100% confident and trust my life and life of freinds and family to what I carry.

 

[larry_minn]

I would have to agree with Jeff White. I really can't see a advantage that comes close to negatives...
It was learned long ago that a two hand hold it better then one. You are making it more complicated/increased chance of LOSING you spare mag. (while drawing, moving to cover, maybe shooting)

 

[B yond]

Wow.


I really wasn't expecting so many negative reactions.

You've made some very valid points.

I'm going to continue to practice this draw, because I don't think you can practice anything too much. I doubt it will be my primary technique should I ever need to use my weapon, but at the very least it will help me to be able to draw my spare mag faster (which I don't think is practiced nearly enough by most people).

I have several different techniques I practice to employ my weapon. Based upon the advice from other THR'ers I'll emphasize this one less.

I'm going to start practicing drawing my spare while firing. Since I'm limited to 10 round mags I want it to be a well-rehearsed and natural movement for me to ready my spare mag at round 6 or 7.

 

[Jeff White]

Why don't you just practice reloads both speed reloads and tactical reloads and then practice clearing malfunctions? Get someone who reloads to make you a couple dummy rounds, or buy a couple, or just have someone load a spent casing into your magazine. When your pistol malfunctions, clear it. 10 correct repetitions per practice session should do it. You don't want to work too many reps per session in or you'll get bored and sloppy with it. You can practice the reloads dry fire with just the dummy rounds loaded.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

There is a spare mag riding in it's own velcro pocket. It stays there. Dropping the first would be a button away and the other hand can zip the second mag up and in quickly.

Dummy rounds actually sometimes refuse to get out the gun. Same with the shotties.

If I had a fight that long to require a second mag, things are going to be grim indeed.

 

[David E]

I'm going to continue to practice this draw, because I don't think you can practice anything too much. I doubt it will be my primary technique should I ever need to use my weapon,

It will be if you keep practicing it! WHY would you dedicate training/practice time perfecting a STUPID "technique?"

Instead, utilize that time doing it correctly.

I'm going to start practicing drawing my spare while firing. Since I'm limited to 10 round mags I want it to be a well-rehearsed and natural movement for me to ready my spare mag at round 6 or 7.

Wow.......as if your first idea wasn't bad enough ! THIS one is worse!

So, while in the middle of shooting, you'd drop the support hand off the gun to retrieve a mag you don't need yet?

You'd be far better served if you concentrated on HITTING YOUR TARGET with all rounds fired!

If you do THAT, then you should be able to reload at your convenience.

Look, you need to take a gun class from someone that knows something practical. Seriously.

.

 

[possum]

Possum, thats where proper maintence and gear check and proper training come into play. Shoot what you carry often and properly maintence it along with proper firearm selection and you wont have problems I carry a G17 and G23 and rotate carry mags and shoot both firearms alot. I am 100% confident and trust my life and life of freinds and family to what I carry.

so you are saying that there is a 0 % chance that your glock won't fail? a magazine won't fail, a round won't fire? you say you shoot alot, you must not shoot often enough if you go to the range and shoot "alot" and have no issues with anything, ever. everything man made can and will break, mess up, etc. and going off murphy's law it will happen at the worst possiblle time. you said this is where training comes in. exactly, that is what i was talking about, training /rehearsing for that type 1,2, or 3 malfunction that might occur. or god forbid that it is a 1,2,3, malfunction one hand only, and especially weak hand only that just sucks. i don't know waht you have to disagree with me here about we are saying the samething, except for the fact that you have a perfect carry set up that won't fail under any case, and i on the other hand is in the same boat as everyone else that carry's/ owns a gun, and have a set up that any one point something can go wrong. i choose to prepare and train for it.

 

[possum]

B yond,
you are still gonna use the "technique! i think you need to take a course or something, if you don't listen to us, then maybe you will listen to someone that does it for a living. no wait.... i do it for a living. oh well.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I had an instructor tell me that we have a smart hand and a dumb hand. The dumb hand is the gun hand and it only needs to know how to draw the gun, hold the gun, and fire the gun.

The smart hand is the other hand, often called the weak hand or non-dominant hand. However, it is the hand that does EVERYTHING. It is the Ginger Rogers hand (she did everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in heals...the true talent).

It supports the dumb hand in firing the gun. It helps in the clearing of malfunctions. It does the reloads. It carries or drags injured parties to safety during a fight. It fends off stabs and blows. It puts pressure on wounds. It opens and closes doors. It makes hand signals. It wipes blood, sweat, or debris from your eyes so that you can see. It takes out the cell phone and dials 911. Heck, it even becomes the primary hand for the gun should something happen to the dumb hand such that it can no longer operate the gun.

Given that the smart hand has the responsibility to do ALL those things, why would you want to encumber it by making it try to hold a magazine during all of those potential tasks? Do you really think you are going to be able to maintain control of your full, spare magazine during those times, all the time?

 

[possum]

Given that the smart hand has the responsibility to do ALL those things, why would you want to encumber it by making it try to hold a magazine during all of those potential tasks? Do you really think you are going to be able to maintain control of your full, spare magazine during those times, all the time?

well stated.