Spare magazine vs. BUG

[Skribs]

Just curious on what people's thoughts are on having a spare magazine vs. having a BUG, or if you opt to have both should you want a failure resistant carry setup.

My thoughts on the subject are that a BUG offers advantages in that you can carry weak-side (making it a significantly easier draw if it's weak-side only) and it will solve problems that a spare magazine will not. However, reloading and racking is easier than holstering and drawing (I'm willing to drop a magazine on the ground, not a $500+ gun), and will leave you with more ammunition than the common BUG will. The other option, of course, is to carry both, but that would mean carrying both (and if you're going that route, are you going to have a spare magazine for your BUG?).

Its obvious that owning the BUG in the first place has several advantages - they're usually easier to carry should you want to eschew the heavy burden on your hip, and they can serve as your primary if your EDC needs to go to the shop. However, I'm specifically talking about what you carry with you out the door.

Edit: Guess I should clarify my questions for this post:
1) If choosing between a BUG or a spare magazine, which is your choice, and why? (The answer can't be "both")
2) Would you carry both over one or the other, and why?
3) If you carry both, would you also carry a spare mag for your BUG?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Guns and magazines fail all the time.. it's only a matter of time. Carrying a back-up gun is probably wise.

 

[smalls]

If it's a life or death situation, I wouldn't have a problem dropping a $500+ gun. My life is worth more than that...

I currently do not carry a BUG, because my gun funds right now are zilch. In the event that I do buy one, I will still carry a reload for my primary, but will not for my BUG. I carry enough crap with me every day. I just don't have the room. I wouldn't want to put the BUG's reload with my other reload in fear of confusion. That pretty much leaves me to pockets, which are usually full.

 

[Skribs]

I currently do not carry a BUG, because my gun funds right now are zilch. In the event that I do buy one, I will still carry a reload for my primary, but will not for my BUG. I carry enough crap with me every day. I just don't have the room. I wouldn't want to put the BUG's reload with my other reload in fear of confusion. That pretty much leaves me to pockets, which are usually full.

Cargo shorts, my friend!

 

[X-Rap]

I'm pretty much never without my 380 in my strong side pocket, I also often have a G19 and usually carry a spare for it. I keep spares for both in my truck so if the 380 ends up being all I carry I throw the mag in my left pocket.
I don't care to keep essential items like guns, mags and knives in cargo pockets unless they have dividers built in. Wrangler Cargos do have a cell phone pocket on the left side that holds a mag nice but it is visible.

 

[Skribs]

I'm pretty much never without my 380 in my strong side pocket, I also often have a G19 and usually carry a spare for it. I keep spares for both in my truck so if the 380 ends up being all I carry I throw the mag in my left pocket.
I don't care to keep essential items like guns, mags and knives in cargo pockets unless they have dividers built in. Wrangler Cargos do have a cell phone pocket on the left side that holds a mag nice but it is visible.

If I carried both, it would be gun IWB at 9:00, magazine on right side either IWB or OWB, BUG in right hip pocket, BUG mag in left hip pocket, and then my wallet/keys left cargo and phone/pens right cargo. Knife goes in the back pocket and actually sits fairly comfortably when I'm sitting down (something bigger, like a wallet, would not).

So I could manage it, I'm just wondering if its worth it, or if I should spare the weight and just do BUG, or primary spare + BUG.

 

[smalls]

Good point, but I'm not much for cargo shorts/pants. I don't mind the ones with hidden zipper pockets, but they're not really quick access, and usually hold my smokes.

 

[coalman]

Guess I should clarify my questions for this post:
1) If choosing between a BUG or a spare magazine, which is your choice, and why? (The answer can't be "both")
2) Would you carry both over one or the other, and why?
3) If you carry both, would you also carry a spare mag for your BUG?

At some point, when you leave the bunker, you have to accept you must balance preparedness with comfort and practicality. Any scenario can be imagined to support or not support a selection. The fact is you can never know before the fact what tool(s) you will need.
1) Spare mag. It's smaller and lighter than the bug in a caliber I want to use. I select a larger caliber gun that I trust so don't need a small caliber backup. 9mm is as small as I'll go in any SD gun and I find a way to make that work. And, IMO, 9mm "bugs" are not.
2) No. Primary plus spare mag every time. Reason stated.
3) No. Again, once you leave the bunker there must a line IMO. Or, the very manly fannypack to haul it all?

 

[Skribs]

Spare mag. It's smaller and lighter than the bug in a caliber I want to use. I select a larger caliber gun that I trust so don't need a small caliber backup. 9mm is as small as I'll go in any SD gun and I find a way to make that work. And, IMO, 9mm "bugs" are not.

Not in all dimensions. A pocket 9 will probably be thinner than my primary's magazines, which is the bulk that really affects my pockets. But it is true that it would be bigger in all other respects.

I like your idea of the line, and it is true that there is a line. But where to set it?

 

[Teachu2]

I quit carrying a BUG when I left LE. Same time I quit wearing body armor to work.

These days, my "failure resistant carry setup" is a Glock 30 with a spare mag. I shoot this gun often and well. It has yet to have a failure-to-anything.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than 21 rounds of .45acp (or ten, for that matter!) then I screwed up - and having two guns or another 50 rounds probably won't fix the problem....

 

[tarosean]

If I'm in a situation where I need more than 21 rounds of .45acp (or ten, for that matter!) then I screwed up - and having two guns or another 50 rounds probably won't fix the problem....

Gotta agree with this.

 

[Skribs]

It has yet to have a failure-to-anything.

Doesn't mean it will never fail, and Murphy states it will happen at an inopportune moment.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than 21 rounds of .45acp (or ten, for that matter!) then I screwed up - and having two guns or another 50 rounds probably won't fix the problem....

I love the dichotomy here between 21 rounds and 71. It's worth noting that should the mag fail, you're not talking about 21 rounds, but something more along the lines of 11. With how good pistols are at stopping targets, average accuracy in self defense shootings, and the average number of attackers (predominantly two), I'm going to say that 11 rounds may or may not do the trick, depending on how accurate you are and whether or not they run.

 

[fastbolt]

Not so simple of a choice, really, even if deliberately presented as such ...

Having a spare magazine available can resolve a stoppage which renders the primary magazine either unusable, or disadvantageous (time and/or manipulation issues). It can also address the need for additional ammunition.

A Secondary weapon, or BUG, can be used to address issues ranging from loss of the primary weapon (due to loss on control of the primary, physical loss, breakage/damage rendering it inop, etc).

Complimentary, perhaps, with some overlap of usage, depending on the situational context.

If someone wants to phrase such a question as an either/or, it's their own expectations and perceptions that's creating the acceptable choices in answering the question. The world is often presenting us with somewhat less precise and definitive situations.

FWIW, while I usually carry 1-2 spare magazines with my retirement weapons, and 2-3 speedstrips or speedloaders, I seldom carry a secondary weapon nowadays. I spent a career in LE, and more than 20 years as a firearms instructor, so I have some small amount of insight into what I feel like doing, and why. Really only matters to me.

I do, however, sometimes find it interesting that non-LE private citizens would find it appealing, or necessary, to carry more weapons and gear on their persons that I carried as a working cop. Not my business or problem, though.

Life is often about risk assessment, choices and consequences.

You can be "right" until the day you're "not".

Suit yourself (presuming your acting within local laws, of course).

Oh yeah, whenever one of the guys or gals with whom I work on a range ask me my opinion about such &m such weapon/caliber, as either off-duty and/or secondary weapons ... I usually start by asking them how well they can shoot whatever it is they're considering. That's as good a place to start the conversation as any ...

Then we can get into the accessibility & manipulation considerations under the stresses (physical & psychological) of a dynamic, rapidly evolving and chaotic situation involving the use of deadly force.

Personally, I don't particularly care to feel like I'm girded for work anymore.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I currently do not carry a BUG, because my gun funds right now are zilch. ... Good point, but I'm not much for cargo shorts/pants. I don't mind the ones with hidden zipper pockets, but they're not really quick access, and usually hold my smokes.

Quit smoking and you'd have more gun money.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I'd rather have the BUG than an extra mag. First, it serves as an extra mag. Second, if the gun malfunctions, it fulfills it's obvious purpose of backing up the first.

Also, you can give the BUG to a friend, trusted co-worker, etc, to help you get a shooter, or to protect them while you go after the guy.

 

[pat701]

If your not a sworn LEO, why in the f--king world would you need a back up gun on your person. I think to much X-Box not enough real life.:banghead:

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
Because America.

 

[smalls]

If I'm in a situation where I need more than 21 rounds of .45acp (or ten, for that matter!) then I screwed up - and having two guns or another 50 rounds probably won't fix the problem

It's not about having 7348930384 rounds for a western style shoot out. It's about having a way to clear a malfunction.

If your not a sworn LEO, why in the f--king world would you need a back up gun on your person. I think to much X-Box not enough real life

Stop being a jerk, and listen to some logic.

If the malfunction isn't your magazine, and it's your actual gun, or if your strong side arm is disabled, instead of just rolling over to die, you could grab a BUG from your off side.

Quit smoking and you'd have more gun money.

Cold day in Hell, my friend.
Plus, I roll my own. If I put the money I'd spend on cigarettes in my gun fund, I wouldn't have enough for anything I'd consider using as a BUG.

 

[Teachu2]

We can conjure up scenarios forever and call them "reasons" - but if those scenarios were anything but imaginary in my neck of the woods, I'd be moving.

In MY reality - the only one I deal with:
1) I'm 6'3"+ tall, uncomfortably close to 300 lbs. Not exactly an inviting target for street crime.
2) I live well outside of Detroit - a couple thousand miles from it.
3) I don't hike the forests looking for marijuana grows, use or sell illicit drugs, go to casinos or bars, own a pawn shop, hold an FFL currently, belong to a street gang, or keep a large amount of cash available.
4) I shoot often and well.
5) I am a former LEO, and still practice situational awareness and mindset.
6) The chances of me engaging in a prolonged gun battle are so small as to be immeasurable.
7) From a self-defense standpoint, time is precious. The battle is won or lost very, very quickly.
8) I don't carry any gun that I'm not 100% confident will work, every time. Every 1911 I've ever carried required substantial time and effort (and usually money) to get to that point. Some NEVER got there. These POS ugly plastic Glocks? Not so much. The G30, my carry gun, just works - period. It's like Mikey - it eats everything. It's also a hoot to shoot, so it gets several hundred rounds a month.

For those of you who believe a BUG is a valuable thing, more power to you. For those who prefer to carry 30 rounds or more, go for it.
I'll go with what I believe to be the best choice for me.

 

[Skylerbone]

I can't believe you're not in a gang. My image of you is blown!

Pistol, spare magazine, single AA flashlight and a knife of some sort. Add that to a wallet, cell phone and what pocket change my kids leave me with and it's more than enough.

 

[gunnutery]

On duty I would like to carry a BUG, but I can't figure out where on my uniform to put it that's not totally uncomfortable. Instead I carry multiple knives until I figure out the BUG issue. Primarily because there's a higher percentage of needing something else.

However, while off duty, the percentage of needing 1 gun is much slimmer, let alone needing to switch to a SECOND. I'd much rather just carry a spare mag and revert to my pocket knife (if need be).

Adding a second gun just complicates things and could make one hesitate trying to decide which one to draw, but until then, the second gun just takes up more space on my already thicker-than-it-should-be waist.

 

[smalls]

I'm not saying it's common, or that it happens to anyone. But to dismiss it completely is naive.

Like I said, I don't currently carry a BUG, and I don't feel undergunned, or unsafe. It's just one of those things that is nice to have.

Just because you stay out of trouble doesn't mean trouble will never find you. I also am not gang affiliated, flash cash, etc, but I don't dismiss the chance that I may at some point in my life get into some bad situation, even with a great situational awareness. That's why I carry in the first place.

I also don't carry a gun that I'm not 100% confident in, but all machines will fail. A spare magazine (and knowing how to reload quickly and efficiently) makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[Skribs]

If your not a sworn LEO, why in the f--king world would you need a back up gun on your person. I think to much X-Box not enough real life.

You're right. If I'm by myself and I'm attacked, why would I need more firepower? LEOs travel in packs, which means they need more firepower per person!

Adding a second gun just complicates things and could make one hesitate trying to decide which one to draw, but until then, the second gun just takes up more space on my already thicker-than-it-should-be waist.

I really doubt that it would be hard to figure out which to draw. Primary is the priority unless you can't get to it, then you go for backup.

I can understand the difference between LEO and civilian, but if you're attacked as a civilian it's not going to matter whether you're being careful in the woods or suburbs, or if you're oblivious in the inner cities - the amount of firepower you need will be based on who and how many attack you, not on how likely you are to be attacked in that location.

 

[Teachu2]

I can understand the difference between LEO and civilian, but if you're attacked as a civilian it's not going to matter whether you're being careful in the woods or suburbs, or if you're oblivious in the inner cities - the amount of firepower you need will be based on who and how many attack you, not on how likely you are to be attacked in that location.

If you are attacked by multiple armed determined assailants, and your faithful 0.00% failure rate primary weapon fails, you'll need to hit "pause" while you and your mind process that and you get your BUG out. Otherwise, the oncoming bad guys are upon you.

Please, please find me ONE documented instance where a civilian's BUG has saved them. Not "could have/would have IF they'd have had one", but a bona fide instance where a BUG saved the day.

 

[tarosean]

I'm not saying it's common, or that it happens to anyone. But to dismiss it completely is naive.

Outside of LEO/GOV agencies.. Try and find some examples. the more stories you can find to support your side the better.

There is one that I know of. A watch repair man named Lance Thomas, Ayoob wrote about him some years ago and he was portrayed on Justice Files.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

(hopefully the link will work I cannot see it as Im at work)

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13181
(Ayoobs article)