'Special bullets' killed Menezes

[Fosbery]

In regards to the "innocent man" statements. IIRC this was a situation directly after the tube bombings. The individual shot had a bag similar to those used by the terrorists. The man did not obey orders to drop the bag and show his hands. The man attempted to move away but also, again IIRC, made a conspicuous movement with one of his hands toward the bag. This is what police knew when they made the decision to shoot.

Menezez did not have a bag. He was never told to stop. He was not approached by or aware of the police until he was sitting down with a newspaper on the train. The officers then shouted "police!" as they grabbed him. They then restrained him, dragged him onto the floor, and fired eleven shots from a pair of Glock 17 9mm pistols. They hit him seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder.

In the initial hours and days after the shooting, police claimed that he had been wearing a large coat, carrying a bag, that he had run from police and jumped the ticket barriers. None of these reports turned out to be true.

 

[MartinBrody]

This article has some pics of Menezes prior to being killed, identified as JC (Jean Charles). He did have a bag. However, when I said "innocent man", I stand by it, he was innocent and did not deserve to be killed. Who was at fault is the subject of the inquiry being reported on in these articles.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7034430.stm

 

[Glenn Kelley]

Martin,
Read the link you posted.The cop had a bag the victim did not.The picture shows him with something white.The cop testified that he(the victim)had a newspaper.

 

[Gator]

Well, this was definitely tragic for Mr. Menezes, but I am glad the British police are taking the threat seriously.

 

[Pilgrim]

And, describing the training regime used to develop firearms skills, the advisor told the court officers were required to achieve 70% accuracy with their shooting and underwent two periods of four full days' training every year.

Four full days of training twice a year and they only achieve 70% accuracy at the end of four days?

Something is very wrong here.

Pilgrim

 

[Geronimo45]

They shot an innocent man seven times in the head at point blank range... and they're bickering about what kind of bullets were used!?!?!

Amazing, insn't it? You'd think that they would realize, with the slightest knowledge of ballistics, that seven bulletholes through the head are likely to rub you out regardless of bullet shape?

Were these cops part of some kind of crack unit? British version of SWAT or some such? Seven rounds to the head from two shooters sounds very impressive.

 

[Blackbeard]

I guess Amadou Diallo can rest in peace knowing he was killed by mistake with regular bullets.

 

[Odd Job]

Geronimo45, as far as I know he was wrestled to the ground first, then shot.

 

[feedthehogs]

The kid got shot by mistake, it sucks, but it happens, and the guys who did it are as eaten up as anyone. let it go....

Not as eaten up as the kids family and hopefully some time behind bars will make them remember it more.

 

[Elza]

Just an accident? I question whether those defending the cops would be as caviler if a member of their family were killed in a similar fasion.

 

[ilbob]

I question whether those defending the cops would be as caviler if a member of their family were killed in a similar fasion.

No doubt its a lot harder when it touches close to home.

You have to take these incidents in context.

There is a difference between human mistakes and malice.

It is malice to deliberately set about to violate a citizen's rights, and LE should be chastised for it.

It is a mistake when bad and/or incomplete information forces you to make a life or death decision in a split second, and it turns out you killed an innocent person.

 

[Bobo]

I JUST LOVE BRITISH COMEDIES!

 

[Ian]

Held down and shot 7 times in the head? They didn't need hollowpoints; they could've killed him just fine that way using blanks.

 

[gak]

The bullets "immediately incapacitate" the victim and flatten, rather than pass through the other side of a body

I didn't know these guys supply british police departments:

 

[uw145]

Pausing to warn family members of the evidence he was about to give, Ivor said he saw Mr de Menezes stand and advance.

He judged that he could have been a suicide bomber preparing to detonate a device - and that he needed to restrain him.


Two police officers followed Mr Menezes down to the platform

"I grabbed Mr de Menezes by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms against his sides," he said.

"The right side of my head was against his torso, pushing him back into his seat. He appeared to stiffen up and he was not in a natural sitting position.

"I felt his head turn towards me and I was aware of a CO19 [firearms] officer kneeling on the seat to my left.

"I heard a gunshot very close to my left ear. I was hit by the shockwave of a firearm being discharged."

Hmm so the officer in question restrained someone he had been told was a possible suicide bomber. Seems quite brave to me....

With reference to

And, describing the training regime used to develop firearms skills, the advisor told the court officers were required to achieve 70% accuracy with their shooting and underwent two periods of four full days' training every year.

This is only in relation to the specific operational technique used with suspected suicide bombers (Operation Kratos). In reality armed officers will be training every week with tactics and techniquies and shooting weekly also. It is only the above when they attend a formal requalification. Yes the pass rate may seem quite low. Can anyone tell me what it is in the USA...

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I bet it was EXTreme Shock Fang Face ammo!

Haha!