Special Mission Alert. Arm your squad

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Brian Williams

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You have to set up a T.O.E. for a squad (10 to 18 man) for any and all operations. What would you desire for a main weapon for your squad and any special additional weapons to be spread throughout the team.

Also how would you set up the command structure of your squad.
Would you use 3- 4 man fighting teams w/ squad lead and 2 assistants for a total of 15 or 2 6-man teams with a squad leader and 2 team leaders for a total of 15

Main weapons.
Handgun?
Would you have a SAW? 249 or 240?
would you have any shottys?
What Ammo???

Table Of Equipment?
 
OK, I'll play. I'll assume a squad of 18 men: squad leader (me), squad 2IC, and four four-man teams, each with a team leader. Standard equipment would be the SIG 550 series assault rifle with an appropriate ammo load, a Glock 22 pistol with 3 hi-cap mags, a good combat knife, a Victorinox military took (like the Leatherman, but optimized for military applications), two frag grenades, one smoke grenade and one "flash-bang" grenade. All members would have night-vision gear, and the usual load-out of combat accessories. There would be one radio per team to communicate with other teams and the squad leader, who would carry a more powerful radio for longer-range communication.

Each team EXCEPT the Heavy Weapons team would have one SAW or GPMG, with one person carrying the gun and the other three members carrying spare ammunition.

The teams would break down as follows:


Team 1: Heavy Weapons & Engineering.

This team would have one mortar, one man-portable anti-tank missile launcher, one RPG launcher, and one mine-detector. The four people in the squad would each carry one of these items, with additional components (e.g. mortar base pad) spread around to even up the load. In addition, this team would carry C4, fuse, and other demolition requirements.


Team 2: CQB/Penetration team.

This team would specialize in assaulting buildings and other confined spaces. They would be equipped with the necessary accessories to their weapons, and with specialized tools/weapons, to make this task easier, and would do specialized training for this mission, in addition to their normal infantry role.


Team 3: Scouting/sniper team.

This team would specialize in taking point, scouting, patrolling, observation and sniping. They would be equipped with two sniper rifles, in an appropriate caliber for the operation (probably .300 Mag.), spotting scope and/or binoculars, laser rangefinders, etc. The team would split into two two-man sections for operational deployment, if necessary.


Team 4: Medic/support team.

This team would have specialist medical training for at least two of its members, and would also provide support to other teams as needed.


All members of the squad would cross-train in at least one other specialization (preferably two), so as to fill gaps left by casualties.

How'd I do?
 
.
Which kinda zombies will we be facing?

No zombies, no mutant jello stuffed easter bunnies, no alien munchie bears, just any real world application. You have to hump it and you will have a typical supply line.... which means it could be delayed or right up there and pronto.

Preacherman is on the mark, any differences. Great with the demo team.

Would your SAW gunner also carry their own SIG
 
No, Prof, that wouldn't be very practical... the SAW gunner would have the gun and two boxes of ammo. His squad mates would carry an additional belt of ammo each: perhaps a box, if possible, but this would depend on the weight of their other equipment.
 
I think you have a farily desent setup Preacherman.
Although, to make the type of ammo carried easier, I would use a 75gr HPBT.

The standard rifle would be a SG551, with the CQB teams using both SG551 and SG552.
For the sniper team, to make the availability of ammo easier, I'd give the sniper a SG550 with quick detatchable optics, and the spotter a SG551 with a 40mm mounted.

Don't forget to supress all the longarms, to save your hearing and mask your positions.
 
I think you're trying to give your sqaud too much capability

Preacherman,

Just some things that jumped out at me when I read your post:

Team 1Who's going to carry your mortar rounds? We found that the 6 man mortar squad in the J series MTOE was too light to carry enough rounds to make the two M224 60mm mortars really effective. Having every man in the company carry one or two mortar rounds as part of their basic load gave us enough ammunition to fight, but getting the rounds to the guns especially when making contact unexpectedly was always a problem. I think that you had better figure on vehicle support if you're going to sustain your mortars in a fight.

I don't think that four men is large enough for your heavy weapons team. If you carry one 60mm mortar (forget larger ones) you've already heavily loaded two of your men. In addition to the mortar, they will have to carry aiming stakes, mortar ballistic computer, M2 compass (not near as good for determining directional control as the M2A2 aiming circle, but there is no way you'd man pack one with just two men on your mortar team), maybe two rounds per man, in addition to the sidearm (forget a rifle or carbine for these two guys they've got too much to carry in their hands now), body armor, water, food, and other survival and sustainment items.

This leaves you two men to carry the ATGM (about any man portable system you choose weighs 50 pounds or more on the average) and the RPG. We haven't even got into the demo you've given these guys to hump. This pretty much leaves you with one shot for your ATGM (don't miss or lose control of the missile, you're in deep do do if the wires short out in the wet grass while the tank is coming at you)

Team 2 CQB training is all well and good, but four men will barely clear and secure a small house. You'll need a much larger force to handle bigger structures.

Team 3I don't know that I'd want to walk point/slack with a sniper observer team. I think they would be better employed in an over watch position or more effectively assigned to a larger echelon, a platoon or company. I don't think that you'd have a high enough rate of fire with two bolt action rifles and two Sig assault rifles to be effective as a point element.

Team 4You're dedicating as much resources to medically supporting your reinforced squad as most western armies put at the company level. On the plus side, these four men will be able to carry enough medical supplies to sustain the squad for a long time.

Since perfessor hasn't given us any size constraints (for years the size of the US squad has been decided by how many men a track or other vehicle could carry). Here is how I would organize my squad:

12 men broken into 2 5 man fire teams and a headquarters.

HQ = Squad leader and Designated Marksman. Squad leader has an M4A1 with M68 CCO, AN/PEQ-2 IR laser, SureFire white light, AN/PVS-14, M1911 type semiauto pistol, MBITER radio and the new TEA individual radio. DM has an M16A4 with TAO1 4x32 ACOG, AN/PVS-17, AN/PEQ-2, AN/PVS-14, TEA individual radio, M1911 type pistol.

A and B Team:
Team Leader = M4A1, M68 CCO, AN/PEQ-2, SureFire white light, AN/PVS-14, M1911 pistol, TEA radio.
Automatic rifleman = MK46 SAW, M145 MGO, SureFire white light, AN/PVS-14, TEA individual radio.
Grenadier = M4A1 w/M203A1 grenade launcher, M68 CCO, AN/PEQ-2, Surefire white light, AN/PVS-14, TEA individual radio.
DM = M16A4 with TAO1 4x32 ACOG, AN/PVS-17, AN/PEQ-2, AN/PVS-14, TEA individual radio, M1911 type pistol.
Rifleman = M4A1, M68 CCO, AN/PEQ-2, SureFire white light, AN/PVS-14, M1911 pistol, TEA radio.

All soldiers would have MICH helmets with comms, FSBE or BALCS body armor rather then IBA. One man in each team would be a trained combat lifesaver and carry a CLS bag. Each soldier would carry his own blowout kit and be trained in buddy aid to the point they could start an IV.

All soldiers are trained in CQB to include close quarters marksmanship and basic demolitions. The old M72A3 LAW and the AT4 would be the standard anti armor weapons. The squad would own a breeching kit that moved with the company trains. The breeching kit will include two 12 gauge shotguns and breeching rounds, pre-prepared breeching charges for everything from doors to stone walls, halligan tools, bolt cutters, grappling hooks and rope, engineer tape.

A platoon would consist of three squads organized and equipped as above, a machinegun squad with 3, three man MG teams armed with M240s, M145 MGOs and PVS-17s, an anti armor squad with six men employing two Javelin AA systems. The anti armor squad is also trained in the employment of the old 90mm recoiless rifle using a HE round (that doesn't presently exist, but it's my army right, I just ordered development of the XM8 cancelled and all funds diverted to giving my men a good hand held breeching capability :D) along with the APERS rounds. Which weapon is deployed depends on METT-T. And a platoon headquarters consisting of platoon leader, platoon sergeant, medic and RTO.

There are 3 platoons in a company along with a weapons platoon mounted on trucks that employs 81mm mortars (3) and 2 M2 .50 HBAR and 2 MK19 40mm AGLs.

The company headquarters has a sniper team armed with an M24 SWS and an M16A4 DM weapon. A senoir medic and another aidman. And the various support sections. A FIST team would be part of the headquarters and all would carry the Q8 designator so the Air Force would let them direct airstrikes.

Jeff
 
Jeff, obviously I'm relying on vehicle transportation for the team - if they had to hump all that lot on their feet, the first person they'd shoot would be the team leader (i.e. me)! :D

The idea would be that they would have with them sufficient quantity and quality and diversity of gear to tackle any likely mission against any likely target - after all, that was called for in Perfessr's specifications. However, in the absence of vehicle support, obviously their equipment load and flexibility would be drastically reduced.
 
SMA Force

Command Echelon:
- 1 x Commanding Officer
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine)
- 1 x Senior Sergeant
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Crane SPR-B 5.56mm Rifle)
- 1 x Radio / Electronics Specialist
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine)
- 1 x Medical Specialist
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine)

Alpha Maneuver Element
- 1 x Element Leader
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Crane SPR-B 5.56mm Rifle)
- 1 x Demo / Engineer Specialist
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine with Masterkey)
- 1 x Grenadier
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine with M203)
- 1 x SAW Gunner
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, FN Mk 46 Mod 0 5.56mm SAW)

Bravo Maneuver Element
- 1 x Element Leader
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Crane SPR-B 5.56mm Rifle)
- 1 x Demo / Engineer Specialist
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine with Masterkey)
- 1 x Grenadier
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine with M203)
- 1 x SAW Gunner
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, FN Mk 46 Mod 0 5.56mm SAW)

Machinegun Element
- 1 x MG Gunner
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, MG-3 7.62mm Machine Gun)
- 1 x Assistant MG Gunner
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine)

Sniper Element
- 1 x Sniper
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Mk 11 Mod 0 7.62mm Sniper Rifle)
- 1 x Spotter
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, FN Mk 46 Mod 0 5.56mm SAW)

Tracker / Recon Element
- 1 x Tracker
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, HK MP-5SD 9mm Suppressed SMG)
- 1 x FO / FAC
(SIG P220 .45ACP Pistol, Diemaco SFW* 5.56mm Carbine)


* SFW = Special Forces Weapon. Modified C-8A2 carbine with RAS system. Are outfitted with either an EOTech Holosight or Trijicon ACOG TA-11. Can accomodate Gemtech Suppressor.

SIG P220 are threaded for Gemtech Suppressor.
 
ok, I know that I am totally outclassed on this thread but since I am an enthusiest I will give it a go. maybe unconventional but still fun. I like preachermans setup so I might borrow from him.

18 men

team one
4 men (men, funny how politically incorect that is).
demolition and engineering.
explosives and destructive heat devices (c4, hmx, rdx, thermite whatever prefered....prob c4 and thermite), these are more mission specific thus harder to supply.
one RPG or anti-tank missile launcher.
one heavy machine gun (FN para or SPW).
H&K G36k rifles, at least one AG36 grenade launcher.
sprinfield XD in 40 cal
assorted grenades on all members

team two
6 men
CQB, assault team
HK G36Cs for carbines with ACOGs for optics
also XDs for sidearms
suppressors to match
flash bangs, stun grenades
shotgun with different loads for different situations. i.e. less lethal rounds, door buster rounds.
not sure what kind of shotty though, maybe a Saiga 12 gauge with a short barrel and a red dot, pistol grip etc.
one designated markman with a 7.62 gas operated sniper grade rifle, stoner sr-25
grenades nad such. also an AG36 grenade launcher for the fun of it.
team three
three men
medical team.
XDs
FN P90s

team four
four men
two separate scout sniper teams
bolt action 300 win mag, Savage action with a douglas barrel in a mcmillen A-5 stock. with hensoldt ZF 6-24x72 mounted on top for day and a Raytheon AN/pas 13 for at night.
G36Ks for carbines, maybe G36Cs with acogs

last man
Air combat controller for calling in the big guns for when things get out of hand. also a electronics specialist and computer hacker/programmer. this man can be put with team one, two, three or if the need arises either of team four.
 
Pilot
Copilot
Navigator
Ground control
4 nuclear engineers

Equipment:
Space shuttle
8 Titan IIs
One laser
A box of Torano Exodus '59 torpedos (the cigar)
A deck of cards
A bottle of Hennessy
A bottle of champagne
Four cognac glasses
Four champagne glasses

You do the math. :D :rolleyes: I think I win... esp. for CQB. :neener:
 
Resurrecting this old thread...

I read over everyone's very detailed lists of their dream weapon, altered for specific roles...so here's mine!

Basically, we asked to say what a good ODA or SAS team should be having, since essentially, their job is to do whatever asked, the best they can.

Organization:
I am assuming a 12 man squad broken into 3 maneuver elements of 4 men (A,B,C). Team A is lead by the over all Team Leader (TL), B's TL is over all Assistant Team Leader (ATL), and, naturally, C's role follow's B's TL. (That's a lot of letters...everyone tracking? Bear with me...or gloss over....)

Each team breaks down thus: TL, ATL, Communications (RO), Automatic Rifle (SAW). This is their general job titles within the elements. Obviously, multiple roles need to be filled. I will spare who should be proficient in what because some men are more capable of certain things better than others that you wouldn't normally pair up. IE The radioman on point? Navigator as Machine Gunner? If they are that good at both jobs, sometimes it's just the best way to go. Situation ALWAYS dictates.

Comm Considerations:
Each RO needs to maintain comms between A/B/C as well as each carry a Iridium SAT phone (or similar). There are many civilian radios capable of keeping comm between units for miles, and FEAK's (field expedient antenna kits) are worth their weight in gold if you know how to use and build them.

Each team needs to maintain a Panasonic Toughbook (solid state construction-no internall moving parts) and high quality digital SLR. This, coupled with Iridium data-uplink package, will allow near instantaneous transmittal of high grade information to higher. Canon EOS 10D is a wonderful camera.

Sniper Considerations:
Since deep observation/target acquisition is a key role for these guys, I'd recommend a two man sniper element in B and C. These men should be able to interchange responsibilities seamlessly.

I am in lust with the Accuracy International rifle. Watch THIS to see why...I would like to see a .338 Lapua Magnum per element. Operators can cut weight by removing features they don't want to hump, but would recommend the folding stock. Ruck it using the long gun bearer on a Kifaru (worked for me with the SASR).

Realistically though, I'd have to sacrifice my lust and choose a .308 but still going folding stock for the same reason. One not carrying the rifle, carries the suppressed barrel. Two people could easily swap barrels in the field and this is the best of both worlds. Main reason of switching to .308 is addressed later in weapon considerations for all.

A/B/C should have one Swarovski STS 80 HD, not only because it's AMAZING glass, but an adapter mounts it to your Canon SLR or similar camera, saving you the weight of another giant piece of glass. (Camera lens rule of thumb- 1mm of lens for every meter of distance to object, regardless of zoom).

Squad Automatic Weapon Considerations:
I really don't know a lot in this area. Not a role I've had much experience with. Weight is always an issue with these guys. Carrying enough ammo to make an effective automatic weapons mean distributing. My thoughts, this guy carries 1,000 rnds. Everyone else carries 200-300 packed.

Disintegrating belt fed seems the way to go. No one wants to carry that extra crap hanging off after feeding and in high intensity situations, why let something else get in the way?

I think this guy would be best suited carrying 500-600 rounds in an ISAAK load bearing style and keeping the rest readily unpackable. Of course, user and situation will dictate, but if you need lead like that, you need it now.

Medical Considerations:
Every four man team should have a school trained combat medic/corpsman. Basically, a PJ. Everyone else should be proficient in dealing with typical combat wounds, IE sucking chest wounds, lacerations, broken bones, twisted limbs, head trauma, generic bullet holes, etc.

The main separating element of our medic is he carries meds (morphine, codine, etc), IV's (generally 2 1-liters), and capable of field surgery stuff.

Demolition Considerations:
Two pounds of C4, 10 ft of det. cord, 5 plasting caps, 5 feet of that pull fuse stuff per man is not that heavy. I think that totaled is less than 5 lbs. Probably closer to 3-4.

Evenly distributed, each man carries either a Claymore kit or a LAW rocket. Snipers will likely have the claymores. The detonation style can be their choice, some like time fuse (for "popping smoke" and breaking contact), some like the clacker. I am unaware of reliable wireless methods.

At least two frags, each, at the ready on web gear. One smoke each, vary colors for signals. An element should have two white for masking movement, and two different colored for signaling. One CS (big and billowy cloud, not weak grenade style) per element would be wise for detering and slowing persuit.

I think weapon mounted HE launchers are worth their weight in water. Traditionally carried by TL's, having one in every two man element might not be bad either...very versatile little units and easier to carry and deploy than traditional frags.

What you've all been waiting for!
Weapon Considerations:
Caliber should be a 7.62 variant, preferably what is most common in the area of the mission. Most likely 7.62 x 39, this makes you capable of resupplying off the enemy or captured stockpiles. Waiting for resupply is a pain, and sitting like a duck makes you start twitching.

Inter-compatibility between team members makes it easy for rotating responsibilities or replacing casualties and the like.

Really, being 7.62mm makes the most sense over all, because it is the most common caliber of BULLET throughout the world. Consider this: how much does 500 primers, match grade bullets (for the snipers, everyone else can scavenge bullets as well as powder), and a hand-held Lee Loader weigh? Much less than 500 extra rounds! If you can police your brass (and links, rigging up catching bags on weapons is not that difficult), you can multiply your payload 10x!

Gear Common to All:
BDU's, operators choice (Crye Precision Combat pants and R6 field shirt is what I'd go with).
Footwear of choice
CMC Tactical Rappel Harness, or similar (you can still mount items like holsters and pouches on these. Some units are designed for this)
Second Chance vest w trauma plate (available, not always used)
MICH helmet w/ BLBBS (?) (same rules as 2nd Chance)
Chest Rig (works better w/ frequent ruck use, in/out vehicles)
Ruck system(s) (Kifaru is bar none the best)
And more...but I'm getting tired of this...

Oh...Jetboil PCS w/ french press and whole coffee beans (tea leaves pack smaller/lighter). Coffee beans can be utilized in Sand Socks for snipers ;p
Because some luxuries in the field can save your sanity.
 
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