Springfield M1A

[Winkman822]

What's everyone's experience with the Springfield Armory M1A, specifically the M1A SOCOM 16? I'm thinking about trading my Bushmaster AR15 toward one as I'm finding that I prefer my Stag 3G and now LWRC to the Bushmaster.

 

[Cowboybebop]

Decent guns - but I'd go for the 22" Standard model. If you are considering the 16" SOCOM you might want to look at your other options for that barrel length, such as the SCAR 17S, S&W M&P 10, FNH FNAR - which will all be lighter by a pound or more.

I guess personally I only appreciate the M1a when left in it's original 22" configuration. And I'm willing to put up with the weight only then.

 

[Winkman822]

Decent guns - but I'd go for the 22" Standard model. If you are considering the 16" SOCOM you might want to look at your other options for that barrel length, such as the SCAR 17S, S&W M&P 10, FNH FNAR - which will all be lighter by a pound or more.

I guess personally I only appreciate the M1a when left in it's original 22" configuration. And I'm willing to put up with the weight only then.

Thanks for the input. Do you have any opinion one way or the other regarding reliability and accuracy of the Springfield M1A platform in general?

 

[Cowboybebop]

They're not known as tack drivers. Even when you buy the National Match guns for 2K (I used to have one) they are finicky with loads and you'll typically be very lucky to get 1 MOA. Compared to other modern designs available now they lose with accuracy. For example, the FNH FNAR is guaranteed 1 MOA. And the one I used to have would do it all day long with cheap Remington UMC, which was pretty amazing.

For reliability the M1a is a proven, battlefield tested design. It works and works well. And if you appreciate the history of firearms design it's an awesome addition to any collection. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: don't buy it for its capability or to carry into battle, while it's a good gun if the enemy has a SCAR 17S you will be outgunned. Buy it because it's a part of history and you just love it. And BTW - get the Walnut-stocked one!

 

[Welding Rod]

I have owned 4 SAI M1As, Standard, Loaded, Supermatch, and SOCOM. 3/4 had problems that you can read about if you search my user name. I would not buy another new SAI M1A, build quality isn't there. I would go to a different manufacturer.

Now I like the M14 clone a lot as far as 308s go. However I would only get a clone if iron sights were going to be used. M14s irons are among the best, however the rifles are among the worst for attaching optics.

My favorite configuration by far is the Standard model. My Standard is also quite accurate. It will easily shoot sub 2 MOA with any hand load I have tried with a 168 Sierra Match bullet, and frequently down around and sometimes slightly below 1.5 MOA for 5 shots.

On the Socom the sights suck for precise shooting, plus the sight radius is shortened a lot. My Socom was horribly inaccurate as well (barrel crown was visibly non-concentric).... plus it had to go back to factory as it was incapable of shooting within the range of the sight adjustments. Very loud too. Fun to shoot at closer range on plates and such, but that is a pretty specialized niche if it will be a primary rifle, or one of a few primary rifles.

All the above and my love and nostalgic appeal for the M14 aside (used them for a few years as Army ROTC cadet), I almost never shoot my M1As anymore. I shoot a lot and the ammo simply cost twice as much as 556. So I find I shoot 556 almost exclusively.

 

[Jackal]

A decent quality AR10 is a better rifle in my opinion. My DPMS G2 only weighs 7lbs empty, 9lbs WITH loaded 20rd mag AND Leupold VX3 scope/Aero mount!

The M1A is a good rifle. Its just feeling a trifle antiquated compared to more modern designs. The fact that they now use parts imported from Canada, Korea, Taiwan, etc also bothers me. As iconic as the M1A/M14 is, it should be 100% U.S. made...

 

[Panzerschwein]

While they have their fans, the current production M1As are known to not be that great for the price.

I'd keep the Stag, honestly, or go with a Fulton Armory rifle.

 

[Quentin]

I thought about the SOCOM 16 but chose the M1A Scout Squad instead. 18" seemed the ideal barrel length over the 16" and 22" M1As. So far I'm pleased with the Scout and have had no problems. Today's build quality is certainly acceptable though I know many people prefer earlier rifles with USGI parts.

Since you have and like AR-15s there are good reasons to choose a 308 AR which has the same manual of arms as the AR-15 - and possibly a lower price than the M1A.

 

[Kruff]

I had the national match version I bought in the 90's and it was a beautiful rifle, shot well, very reliable but heavy and clunky feeling to me. I eventually sold if off for more than I paid.

Replaced it with the STG58 (FAL) which I still have.

 

[Reloadron]

Mine is a M1A NM my wife gave me in 1990 made with GI parts. I like the rifle and have enjoyed it since I got it 26 years ago. Can't speak for the SOCOM or Squad guns. The M14 was the rifle I trained with so it was a nostalgic thing much like the Colt SP1. If I were to get another one today it would likely be LRB OF LONG ISLAND, INC - Forged M14 and AR15 Receivers.

I have no experience with the newer Springfield Armory rifles other than what I hear people say so can't comment.

Ron

 

[mshootnit]

Got mine in 2008 or so. No GI parts that I know of. Added a Fulton armory hand select USGI contour walnut stock. Shoots 1.5 MOA with scope. I had a NM which was high quality an more accurate. But also heavier. Never owned the SOCOM. My Saiga 16" fills that niche for me.
I had also the MP10, very nice rifle, probably exceeds the SOCOM 16 in utility. I also had the old Armalite 10(T) carbine. Super accurate, thats one I should not have sold but the panic buyers were willing to pay so much..

For pure utility I would look at the MP10 (hard to find now?) Or one of the Armalite offerings which accept dpms pattern mags. They have a number of nice looking free float uppers offered now.

 

[Welding Rod]

Having owned a SOCOM 16 and currently owning a M&P10, from a functional standpoint the M&P is superior in every way with 2 exceptions.

First, it won't reliably function with 7.62 ammo. Modest handholds and 308 are no problem, but some 7.62 won't adequately gas the gun.

Second, the factory 2-stage M1A trigger has a much better pull than the factory M&P trigger. However the M&P trigger is easy to replace with a stellar aftermarket trigger such as the Wilson TTU 2-stage.

 

[agtman]

What's everyone's experience with the Springfield Armory M1A, specifically the M1A SOCOM 16? I'm thinking about trading my Bushmaster AR15 toward one as I'm finding that I prefer my Stag 3G and now LWRC to the Bushmaster.

As was said, the current S.A. M1As have significant QC issues across several models. If it's an iron-sights only proposition, check out Fulton Armory's M1A line. If you have to have a non-standard S.A. M1A, you might look at the 18" Scout (assuming its reliable).

That said, my late 80s Glen Nelson-tuned S.A. Super Match and my 1991 standard S.A. M1AE2 have both run flawlessly since I've had them. But that was a different era of build (using all G.I parts) and different craftsmanship.

Also, as was stated in one of the above posts, if you're even thinking about magnified optics, skip the M1A-platform altogether and start looking hard at the various 7.62/.308 AR options. It's easier and way cheaper in $$$ to get an optic mounted, not to mention the platform's inherent accuracy easily beats what you'll have to invest in a gunsmith (assuming he's M1A-knowledgable) to "tweak" a box-stock M1A so as to wring-out every bit of MOA reduction.

 

[Nature Boy]

I have a standard M1A, ~3,500 rounds through it, not a single malfunction, problem or quality issue. I put a scope on mine and shoot 5 shot groups between 1.0 and 0.75 MOA with my hand loads.

I love mine

 

[Reloadron]

I have a standard M1A, ~3,500 rounds through it, not a single malfunction, problem or quality issue. I put a scope on mine and shoot 5 shot groups between 1.0 and 0.75 MOA with my hand loads.

I love mine

You guys using scopes may want to point out what scope mount(s) you found to work best. I just use the NM2A sights. Putting a scope on a M1A always seemed to be a sore spot.

Ron

 

[rswartsell]

Mine (standard) finally got too heavy for me. I was old school and loved it for years, using bolt action for more precision or walking but punishing hogs (and paper) with the M1A.

I bought a Colt 6920 to replace it and am playing with the idea of .30 cal uppers.

Unquestionably a good rifle in it's category.

 

[Nature Boy]

Bassett scope base
http://www.bassettmachine.com

Bradley Cheek Riser
http://www.bradleycheekrest.com

 

[DaisyCutter]

Personally, I could never bring myself to neuter 7.62 NATO with a 16" barrel.

Realistically, a couple inches off the barrel won't make a battle rifle handle like a carbine. You still have a heavy steel receiver and heavy mags. Let that magnificent 7.62 NATO horsepower shine with a tad longer barrel.

Just my opinion.

 

[119er]

I have a Scout Squad that is a 2011 or 2012 gun and I like it a lot. Not a safe queen by any means, but I don't outright abuse it. I just bought a DPMS G2 Recon that will be my primary .308, but the M1A isn't going anywhere for darn sure. It puked the guts out of the bolt on the 33rd round it fired after I bought it new. I put USGI guts back in and it has close to 2000 rounds through it now. I clean it every couple trips to the range and I shoot the heck out of it. Oftentimes, 3-4 mags in succession without a problem and it gets pretty hot. In fact, the only real issue I can think of is due to a ProMag magazine that allows the bolt to override with several rounds to go. Only that one mag though. It did tend to back out the gas plug until I bought a tool to hold the gas block while I tightened it. A rag and pipewrench would work though.

The rifle and I get along well because I only ask it to hold a 10-11" black circle out to 300 yards from prone, usually unsupported w/o sling. It does that just fine, even if I am having a bad day I can usually get that to happen. Moving up to the bench yields a realistic 2.5-3 MOA gun with my high volume reloads. I use Hornady 150 FMJ, LC brass, and H4895. I have done better with good bullets and playing with loads but it is a waste of time for me. It does what I need with the bulk stuff and I couldn't be happier with it.

My reason for taking it off primary status is the simple fact that it is not easy to get an optic or patrol sling on it. Plus, the DPMS G2 controls mirror my AR's, so it is really a no brainer if I remove the nostalgic feelings from the equation. Mine weighs 9.6 lbs. unloaded in a USGI fiberglass stock and a Blue Force padded sling.

 

[Edarnold]

I've got a Super Match circa 1994, with mostly GI parts as purchased. Reliability through many Service Rifle matches and bench time has been 100%. Accuracy is good with any quality load, 1 MOA is achievable ( 10 shot groups). But, it weighs a lot, works for me with a SA gen2 scope mount, your mileage may vary.

I would add another vote for a 22" barrel on any .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO rifle to be used at any distance over 100 yards. Going with a 16" barrel leaves you with the weight, expense, muzzle blast and recoil of a .308, and the ballistics of a 30-30 Winchester. Might be tacticool, but makes no sense either as a target gun or a battle rifle.

 

[mshootnit]

For a carrying rifle, the m14 is the only 308 with a length over 18" I would consider.
16" 308 carbines have their place. Maybe you want something lighter more handy.

 

[119er]

ballistics of a 30-30 Winchester

Not true. Of course you give up velocity as a compromise, but not to that degree. Assuming you are shooting lighter, higher velocity (147-150gr) bullets as most people would out of a carbine, the loss from 22" to 16.5" is about 292 fps as tested here:

http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

I'm seeing .30-30 velocities from 150 RNFP's up to 2390 fps where the 16.5" .308 is still at 2682 fps. Not insignificant, but not a .30-30 either. Heck, take a few percent if you think being a gas gun has any real effect and it still holds.

Rare indeed would be the circumstance that I would attempt to take a shot at 300+ yards with a defensive/carry carbine, although I suspect that it would handle the task if pressed. If the M4 is capable, a 16" .308 certainly is.

 

[macgrumpy]

I seem to be one of the few that sees nothing inadequate about the SOCOM 16, I honestly believe that it's one of the best all around rifles I've ever owned.

Quality control? Well I'm sure that none of us are actually qualified to say whether it's any better or worse than it's ever been, it would take a lot of data to prove that one way or another. I do know that of the three rifles I own two have worked flawlessly and the third had a problem with magazine retention which took about 20 minutes with a file to fix.

I use my SOCOM 16 for hunting and target shooting out to 400 yards just as accurately as my heavily modified Loaded model, that short barrel doesn't make any difference in accuracy but it obviously effects a reduction in max muzzle velocity so you get your best overall performance with bullets of no more than 150 grains but I also have a very accurate 168gr handload that I use for deer and elk.

The biggest issue with the SOCOM is that most people aren't knowledgeable about the strengths and weaknesses of the design. The rifle was built for close quarter combat so it's not well suited for anything else, but you can modify it to make it suitable for just about any kind of use. With the right parts and handloaded ammo it's every bit as good a shooter out to 800 yards as any other rifle. The iron sights are designed for fast shots at two legged targets under 100 yards so naturally they don't work well for accuracy but that's easy to change if you want to (I did, I replaced them with standard sights and they work perfectly). I also added a rail and a Nikon variable scope in a Scout style position (over the barrel rather than over the receiver). The best scope mounts come from a hand full of manufacturers; Sadlak, Bassett, M14CA, ARMS, and Ultimak are the only ones I trust. They all have their quirks and depending on the quality of the receiver you might have fitment issues but they are usually easily taken care of with simple hand tools and a little research.

The short barrel also makes it difficult to find factory ammunition that works well off the shelf. Most commercial ammunition is developed for .308 caliber rifles with at least a 20 inch barrel, the powders used are just too slow for a short barrel, that's why so many people prefer the 18" Scout rifle, the longer barrel works fairly well with the standard commercial ammo. The best off-the-shelf ammo for general use in the SOCOM is any ammo that is equivalent to the military MK319 130gr ammo built for the SCAR. My favorite commercial ammo was the 110gr TAP ammo built by Hornady. I settled on my own version using the Hornady 110gr VMax bullet which pushes 3000 fps out of my SOCOM and I get sub-MOA performance at 100 yards from a bench position.

The stock has always been the weakest part of the accuracy equation for the M1A rifles, the stocks were usually pretty loose and accuracy suffered accordingly. I haven't used the new SOCOM 16 CQB so I can't say if the stock fits well but I suspect it's better than their previous stocks. I have tried several stocks over the years including some pretty expensive models but the best stock I've found for field use is the AG Composites Carbon Fiber CBR stock. It's light, strong, and fits very well. The best stock for accuracy has been my JAE, it's on my Loaded model rifle and I love it for a long range shooter.

 

[Jackal]

The velocity difference between a 18" and 16.5" barrel is less than 100fps. Neither the shooter, nor the target is going to notice.

Heck, from 28" down to 16.5" doesnt even see a 300fps difference. I'll take the utility of a 16" carbine over a 22" tent pole anyday.

http://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

 

[Nature Boy]

With a lot of discussion about quality regarding the M1A, I'll point out that Springfield has one of the best waranties in the industry. Lifetime of the rifle, whether you're the 1st owner or the 15th