Star super model A

[tark]

Just picked up a pristine Star Super Model A in 9mm Largo today. Shoots fine, only throws the empties about five feet, into a polite little pile. Largo ammo is hard to get these days. 38 Super isn't. 38 Super isn't loaded so Super these days, since the ammo companies all backed off to 9x19 pressures for their Super ammo.

I ran a couple of supers through the gun. To be quite honest the Largo Ammo (CCI blazer), felt hotter. So I ran a mag of Supers through the thing. It felt like the Largo ammo. The gun threw the empties about five feet. In a polite little pile. I tried a couple of 38ACP rounds, the gun short cycled and stovepiped it would not function at all.

My chrono says the super ammo (Rem 130 gr) is actually a few feet per second slower than the 124 gr Largo; 1205 for the Rem, and 1214 for the Largo. Rem claims 1200 for their ammo so they are spot on. Don't know what CCI used to claim for the Largo ammo.

So the question is obvious. Am I an idiot.... let me rephrase that ...I already admit to being an idiot.

Am I doing something unsafe? I plan on doing very limited shooting with the supers and I don't think it will hurt the gun at all.

Help me, Tuner!

 

[Onmilo]

I would NEVER recommend shooting .38 Super through a 9mm Largo chambered gun even though I do shoot them through my Astra 400.
Key point is to stick with the economy grade stuff and NOT shoot hi pressure full power loads like Cor-Bon, etc.

You have to know EXACTLY what the load level is when choosing .38 Super loads to shoot in a 9mm Largo.

Back in the way back when 9mm Largo guns were first being brought into the country, .38 acp was considered an acceptable cartridge to shoot while the old .38 Super loads were considered too hot.

 

[tark]

You shoot 38 Supers in a blow back pistol with no locked breech at all, but not in a beefy, 1911 clone with a locked breech?

Interesting.....

 

[HisSoldier]

Though I would never recommend shooting 38 Super through either gun it is true that some of the modern 38 Super loads are actually ballistically lighter than some Largo ammo, as you said. The trouble is in knowing which is which, and also, what are the pressures involved.
If you look at a 9MM Parabellum for instance the Largo is way more powerful but the pressures are lower in the Largo, at least going by published data. How in the heck is that?
The only reason I can think of is that there is much more space in the case.

I load my own 9MM Largo in 38 Super dies, boxer primed and puff ball loads so the shells should last many reloads. My Star is the old A model, not the Super. What a lovely handgun it is too. I also have an Astra.

 

[Onmilo]

You shoot 38 Supers in a blow back pistol with no locked breech at all, but not in a beefy, 1911 clone with a locked breech?

Interesting.....

Ain't it though,,,

 

[rule303]

Sounds to me like it will work fine for you with that gun/ammo combination. Using a chrono and having a little common sense goes a long ways. I would never recommend shooting .38 Super in a Largo as a blanket statement, but there are guns with certain loads that are 100% safe. The more important question is why are you shooting a gun in either caliber and not reloading???

 

[tark]

Rule303 I shoot only Remington and Winchester white box 38.Supers in the gun, or at least I will. I am waiting for a new spring kit to arrive from Wolff, before I do any more shooting.

The Remington is loaded with a 130 gr bullet at 1200, the Winchester a 124 gr bullet at 1240. The CCI Largo ammo chronographs at about 20 FPS slower, average, with the same bullet weight. Both are weaker than the standard Super load of decades past which was for many years a 130 gr @1300 FPS.

I would reload for the gun but I can't hardly reload Jacketed bullets as cheaply as I can just buy loaded factory ammo. Can't find any pistol powder anyway! If you have ever looked down the bore of a Star Model A Super, you would know why lead bullets are out of the question: the rifling is the shallowest I have ever seen....It cant be more than a thousandth deep. Maybe a little more. I'm pretty sure it is intentional, the gun is a 98% er and the bore is mirror bright. It just has the shallowest rifling I have ever seen on any pistol.

 

[tark]

ONMILO, I will tell you a dirty little secret, if you PROMISE not to tell anyone.....I shoot Supers in MY Astra 400 too... It loves em! Matter of fact I have just finished putting over 1000 rounds of the stuff through mine, and I ordered a couple of extra strength recoil springs from Wolff.

And I ordered another case of ammo through my secret supplier.

I have found the Black Hills 38 Super loads with 124 gr @ 1240 to shoot exceptionally well.

 

[tark]

Spring kit arrived. New spring is half an inch longer than old, but it will shorten a bit after a few hundred rounds. New springs are marked "Extra strength" . The wire is .001 larger in dia than the original. Put one in the gun....WOW when they said extra strength they MEANT IT! Racking the slide takes noticeably more effort.

Now, instead if flipping the empties five feet, they dribble out, a couple of feet at most, and land in the aforementioned polite little pile.

As long as I stick with that Black Hills stuff I think I have found my ammo....

And I know better than to even THINK about shooting 9X23 Win ammo in it. I like my right hand too much...

 

[Onmilo]

ONMILO, I will tell you a dirty little secret, if you PROMISE not to tell anyone.....I shoot Supers in MY Astra 400 too... It loves em! Matter of fact I have just finished putting over 1000 rounds of the stuff through mine, and I ordered a couple of extra strength recoil springs from Wolff.

And I ordered another case of ammo through my secret supplier.

I have found the Black Hills 38 Super loads with 124 gr @ 1240 to shoot exceptionally well.

Black Hills Ammo, In Illinois!?!
You and your secret supplier must be spies,,,,

 

[Gik-tal]

The plain 38 supers seem to work just fine in these guns, just avoid the +p rounds they can be way to hot for them. I now load up my own rounds using either 38 super brass or Star 9mm Largo brass when I can find it.

 

[tark]

Onmilo...yes indeed...there is Black Hills ammo in Illinois, if your old boss is Les Bear, who has a tight little agreement with the Black Hills people and has had for years. I get my Super ammo at a very nice price. It is reloaded ammo and is packed loose in boxes of fifty. Their 124 gr stuff is loaded to 1240FPS, which almost exactly duplicates the Largo load.

The springs I got from Wolff are marked "extra power" and boy, are they ever! When I sit at my shooting bench, the empties dribble out the side of the gun and most of them don't even fall off the bench! I have the same extra power springs in my Astra 400.

 

[Onmilo]

tark
I'm gonna have a look at those X-power springs.
Looks like a good thing to have on hand for an old blowback auto!

 

[tark]

Onmilo, the extra power springs are something Wolff offers in most of the old pistols, but not for the Astra 400. No matter, their standard spring works wonders. I have them in my broom handle and I have just passed 4000 rounds of various Mauser and Tokarev ammo, without a hitch. I change springs every two thousand rounds and I just put my third spring in the broomie.

GikTal, the Remington ammo I shoot in the Astra 400 and the Star IS marked +P. It is weak stuff. As a matter of fact all of the factory loaded 38 Super Ammo is marked +P, these days, and it is all weak compared to the standard super load of three decades ago, but....

I'm not so sure about some of the hot rod loaders like Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore, so I will stay away from them

 

[jmace57]

SARCO still has a bunch of 9mm Largo. They have raised the price recently, but it is still cheap compared to most cartridges. I bought 1000 rounds. I have shot a couple of hundred rounds and never had a misfire. (corrosive though)

 

[Ibmikey]

One would really be acting in an utter stupid fashion to run .38 Super in a Star 9mm Largo pistol. Surplus Largo ammo is still readily available (a lot is corrosive so clean well afterward) and the pistols are fun to shoot but with the correct ammo please!

 

[Onmilo]

One would really be acting in an utter stupid fashion to run .38 Super in a Star 9mm Largo pistol. Surplus Largo ammo is still readily available (a lot is corrosive so clean well afterward) and the pistols are fun to shoot but with the correct ammo please!

And what might you suggest people do when the finite amount of berdan primed 9mm Largo ammo runs out?
You might reread the thread again before making that opinion.

 

[tark]

Ibmikey, why is it stupid to run supers through a Largo pistol when I get the supers cheaper than you can get Largo ammo; it is loaded to the same pressures, it is boxer primed and reloadable and I don't have to worry about whether or not it might be corrosive or if it will go off? I promised never to tell what Les is selling me the Black Hills super ammo for but trust me, it is far cheaper than any Largo ammo I have seen.

Hell, I'd be a fool to shoot LARGO ammo in it!

 

[jcwit]

Ibmikey, why is it stupid to run supers through a Largo pistol when I get the supers cheaper than you can get Largo ammo; it is loaded to the same pressures, it is boxer primed and reloadable and I don't have to worry about whether or not it might be corrosive or if it will go off? I promised never to tell what Les is selling me the Black Hills super ammo for but trust me, it is far cheaper than any Largo ammo I have seen.

Hell, I'd be a fool to shoot LARGO ammo in it!

Mayhap your 38 super is loaded to Largo spec's, if not it is over pressure for the Star Model A.

But then it is your gun, your hand, and your problem, hopefully anyway.

You seem to be only worried about the cost of the ammo and little else.

 

[jcwit]

GikTal, the Remington ammo I shoot in the Astra 400 and the Star IS marked +P. It is weak stuff. As a matter of fact all of the factory loaded 38 Super Ammo is marked +P, these days, and it is all weak compared to the standard super load of three decades ago,

And you know for a fact what the 38 spec. factory ammo is loaded at what pressures?

Explain where/how you know this?

 

[Onmilo]

And you know for a fact what the 38 spec. factory ammo is loaded at what pressures?

Explain where/how you know this?

I know the domestic target grade commercial .38 Super ammo displays no pressure signs when fired in MY blowback action Astra 400.
By pressure signs I mean primer cratering, primer flattening, case head smearing, case rim gouging, failure to lock slide on last round, grip cracking, pistol exploding, etc.
I routinely use .38 Super cases to handload ammunition for my pistol and the performance and pressures of 9mm Largo factory duplicate handloads is right on par with low pressure .38 Super loads.

Like I stated earlier, I would NEVER recommend anyone shoot .38 Super ammunition in THEIR 9mm Largo pistol,,,,

 

[tark]

jcwit, it isn't real hard to find out! Google "38 Super Auto pressures" or just pull up the SAAMI websight. Todays 38, super ammo is loaded to about 35,000 PSI, which is the same as the 9X19, or Luger, or Parabellum, or whatever you want to call it.

I have talked to the people at Black Hills and:

on the record: We cannot condone shooting 38 Super ammo in any gun not specifically designed and chambered for that specific cartridge, and so marked on the barrel.

Off the record: Our 38 Super ammo is loaded to the same pressure as 9mm ammo. The only reason it gets slightly more velocity is the larger case capacity, BUT IT IS LOADED TO THE SAME PRESSURES.

And those pressures are well within the safety margins designed into the pistol.

Don't hold your breath waiting for me to blow myself up. It won't happen.

 

[tark]

Onmilo, we're both in Illinois. Where are you at, we need to talk and compare our Astras and Stars.

 

[Onmilo]

Tark
Lost world Section.

 

[HisSoldier]

And what might you suggest people do when the finite amount of berdan primed 9mm Largo ammo runs out?
You might reread the thread again before making that opinion.

There must be a large number of people in these forums who don't load their own ammo. That also means I think that either they don't shoot much OR they are filthy rich.