Started cratering primers.

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Thank for all the Insightful Help.
Thanks for posting a thread about cratered/punctured primers and telling respondents to ignore pressure as a possible cause, since the loads worked fine in two other rifles.

If only there existed a methodology to "work up" loads for individual rifles!

Or maybe the ability to accept that CCI #400 primers might not be the best choice for loads at that pressure (dammit! I used the unmentionable word) level.

If you ask a question and arbitrarily rule out answers that you don't like, you're likely to get some unconventional responses.
 
Not to discount the fine information posted on Savage Shooters forum , I prefer the input of the master rifle smith I used with the reputation for excellence and the targets I have that tell me otherwise. Light strikes on a rifle primer are detrimental to accuracy and pin fall is different then pin protrusion.

Jim, some guys just like to Wiki chance for best results :rofl:
 
Thanks for posting a thread about cratered/punctured primers and telling respondents to ignore pressure as a possible cause, since the loads worked fine in two other rifles.

If only there existed a methodology to "work up" loads for individual rifles!

Or maybe the ability to accept that CCI #400 primers might not be the best choice for loads at that pressure (dammit! I used the unmentionable word) level.

If you ask a question and arbitrarily rule out answers that you don't like, you're likely to get some unconventional responses.
You’ll eventually come across a response that mirrors one’s own thoughts as well.

Targets never lie.. nearly 2000 rounds down the pipe and this old girl still shoots just outside a dime at 500 yards.
 

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You started having problems when you seated bullets a bit deeper. This makes me wonder whether the bullets were touching lands, effectively headspacing the cartridges in the chamber, then when seated deeper, created loose fit of the round and less "headspace". Try seating bullets out a bit to the previous length and see if that helps eliminate the excessive headspace indication. If it does, adjust the sizer die to not create headspace issues.
 
Thanks for posting a thread about cratered/punctured primers and telling respondents to ignore pressure as a possible cause, since the loads worked fine in two other rifles..

Guess you either blew by of completely ignored that statement that these loads were firing just fine in this rifle too!

So then if these were working very well then tell me what changed to cause this pressure spike? The load is the same, no changes! So I supposed this just started for no reason huh?
 
Thanks Dave. I believe I read that same information on Savage Shooters Forum, just haven't gotten around to measuring yet but it is next on my list.

Now as I recall my Model 10 has the old style pin and this Model 11 has the new style pin. Also I thought both styles were adjustable so I thought wrong, Thanks.

So if it is the new style and is long how do you correct it?

Needs to be trimmed by hand. Not hard, as long as you know what to do. If it is a new style, and too long, bring it up on Savage Shooters Forum. I’m the same guy over there..

But, check it first. Cross bridges as they come up.
 
Targets never lie.. nearly 2000 rounds down the pipe and this old girl still shoots just outside a dime at 500 yards.

Very nice Jim! :thumbup: Yeah… that 6BR is hard to beat. Barrel will see 2500+ rounds before accuracy even thinks of going south. Be my choice if I didn’t like .264” so much. Or if I actually competed, LOL! :D
 
I guess my point is that a it groups pretty cleanly with a .266 bushing and you can’t do that with weak strikes or poor ignition.
 
No, mines a model 12 so perhaps that’s where my misunderstanding lies.

No, it’s the same. Your Model 12 uses one of the same Firing Pins. Not to mention the same Bolt assembly, Barrel, Recoil Lug, Trigger.. everything. So what I said stands. .060” is WAY too much FP protrusion for any Savage. The range is .035”-.045”. :) If your 12 is just a few years old it uses the Older style & is easily adjusted. You should do that.
 
I prefer the input of the master rifle smith I used with the reputation for excellence.

Of course the opinion of excellent professionals. Which we have seen so many here in this post.

24 years ago when I was only 44 I went to a Professional Dr. because of leg pain. That was the symptom and immediately the diagnosis was Sciatica. he then sent me to therapy for treatment. Six month later I was in the Hospital ER with chest pain. They did a Angiogram and during that procedure they also determined that the Femoral Arteries in both legs were nearly completely blocked. Leg pain was NOT Sciatica! I almost lost both legs because of a misdiagnosis by a Professional. Instead of looking into the true cause of the pain he just guessed it to be the simple easy thing.

Now I am guessing that some of you don't know any more than some of the people I have already consulted yet you are all free to make rude, snide comments. So if this was merely a simple Over Pressure problem it would have been resolved long before I came here asking questions.
 
Of course the opinion of excellent professionals. Which we have seen so many here in this post.

24 years ago when I was only 44 I went to a Professional Dr. because of leg pain. That was the symptom and immediately the diagnosis was Sciatica. he then sent me to therapy for treatment. Six month later I was in the Hospital ER with chest pain. They did a Angiogram and during that procedure they also determined that the Femoral Arteries in both legs were nearly completely blocked. Leg pain was NOT Sciatica! I almost lost both legs because of a misdiagnosis by a Professional. Instead of looking into the true cause of the pain he just guessed it to be the simple easy thing.

Now I am guessing that some of you don't know any more than some of the people I have already consulted yet you are all free to make rude, snide comments. So if this was merely a simple Over Pressure problem it would have been resolved long before I came here asking questions.

Why are you quoting me ? I haven’t said anything rude.
The master rifle smith I used for that job was Brett Evans out of south hill in Puyallup Wa.
 
I did ‘ but hey Dave that rifle is for sale for a thousand dollars without the scope of course, you could adjust the protrusion anyway you want. I’m shooting a Bat B these days

No thank you. I only buy Savage Actions or the most inexpensive I can find, then strip them down, homegrown Blueprint and build it back up the way I want them.
 
Why are you quoting me ? I haven’t said anything rude.
The master rifle smith I used for that job was Brett Evans out of south hill in Puyallup Wa.

Post #28 "You’ll eventually come across a response that mirrors one’s own thoughts as well."

Seems the implication here is that I will disregard all other comments until I find ones that match my own thoughts. Quoting you wasn't meant to be completely directed at you either. though your comment was related to triggering my response.

So I will ask you all another question. What makes all the website experts here any more qualified or knowledgeable than those on any other web forum? Why should those at the Savage Forum be disqualified to speak on a question pertaining to a Savage rifle?
 
Ah yes post #28.. I was replying to the other gentleman but apologies for any offense, anyway to your issue I would ask myself about the brass being used. Are these all the same lot number as the previous batch of brass used to work up the loads. Not being an expert I can only rely on my notes from previous encounters and just recently had a occurrence where a 40 fps spike appeared and tracked down to case volume from a seperate lot number. And I have had primers that looked like a golf tee after fired from pressure I assume but for whatever reason.
I hope you find the issue and please report back.
 
Kmw1954, I think this is a case of the difference between reading & hearing a person’s response.

I honestly didn’t take Jim’s response in that manner, because I’ve been around long enough & seen his response style. Jim is quite active in shooting sports & has a gunsmith he trusts is all. That’s how I was reading it anyway.

It’s the problem with the typed word sometimes. :) A person can respond feeling light hearted & a smile on their face, with the cheeriest disposition that could be! But if the reader interprets what is said a certain way, and reads it in their head with a negative, or incite-full tone, the meaning is completely misunderstood.
 
So then I started loading and playing with seating depth and then while doing this all of a sudden I started seeing cratered primers and then even a few pierced.
10,000 PSI increase when bullets are touching rifling. (Quickload)

Next I have the Nosler load data you list and nowhere in their material do I see a listing for Accurate 2460 powder.

Looks like Hodgdon data for 2460 was just copied from Western data? No testing on Hodgdons end?

Here is the Nosler powder charges of 2460 with lighter bulletsl. Note primers used.

Hope this helps. :)
20221003_142819.jpg 20221003_142653.jpg
 
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So I will ask you all another question. What makes all the website experts here any more qualified or knowledgeable than those on any other web forum? Why should those at the Savage Forum be disqualified to speak on a question pertaining to a Savage rifle?

My personal take; it really is a judgement call. Look at previous threads, responses given, and take all of it into account. I was recently at odds with a young man here who in 18 months has racked up nearly 10k responses and most of them 1911 centric. I may not be an expert at any of them but his continued reply of Dremel Dremel Dremel, you can’t screw nothin up is always a trigger in my mind, particularly when he dismisses my citation of things what can be buggered up.

If I were you I would be rather focused on what @South Prairie Jim is suggesting. (I’d also stake my reputation that he knew there was no meaningful difference between long and short action in the above instance, he was being cheeky).

There are some other suggestions worth noting but internet interpretation of “my car makes this noise” is not so straightforward aw we would hope. Still, an educated guess trends better than a WAG from someone who may simply mean well, and fingers crossed all of it with good intentions.

My reply was the rather generic type, knee jerk if you will, as a general response to Savage FP hole size. Barring that I look at brass, concentrating effort on die set up. I tend to bump the shoulder just a tad rather than necking only and while I have much rifle brass, I prefer to work a small batch till it’s spent.
 
Alright then. I posted this question here because for the most part everyone keeps a pretty civil attitude.
In my very first post I asked that it not be posted that this is an Over Pressure issue because I have already been down that road with this while discussing this with some very serious and knowledgeable shooters. Some of whom are replacing barrels more than once each year. Again if this was as simple as an only Over Pressure Issue it would have been solved long ago and I wouldn't be on the internet asking this question. I have heard much speculation and conjecture on this but little suggestion as to the cause or solution. Most of what has been asked or claimed has already been investigated and in some instances more than once. One does not develop a pressure spike for absolutely no reason.

So once again the only thing that has changed in all this is the cratering of the primers. All the components, ALL, have been fired in this gun previously with the exact same loading with no deformed primers. Hence my one shooting friend that suggested a Carbon Ring has developed. I mentioned the seating depth change only because that is when I first noticed this cratering. After I noticed it I went back to the original measurement and tested again and the cratering was still present.

Lastly I see no difference in the comparison of using Western Load data and a 69gr Sierra MK in place of the 69gr Nosler Comp,, which are practically identical, or referencing a Nosler 64gr data to be used for a 69gr Nosler bullet that are completely different. Then pointing to primer used when the brass used is not the same either. Where is the relevance?
 
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