Starting Over - Lil' Help, Please

[Saluki91]

I’ll try to keep this brief without leaving out important details – my apologies if it gets long winded.

I was fortunate enough to receive a Dillon XL750 Basics kit (9mm) for Christmas. This is my way back into reloading after many years away. I loaded and shot quite a bit with my father as a child/teen, but got away from it in my later HS years and college (girls were a lot more interesting…). While I’m not new to the concepts, I am essentially starting over.

Since my Dillon dies apparently won’t get to me until sometime in 2046, I bought a set of Hornady Custom Grade dies and a Lee crimp die to get me started. Using Dillon’s excellent videos, as well as a few from Hornady (and the good ol’ MKI instruction books), I set up all of the dies today:
Station 1 – Honady sizing die
Station 2 – Dillon Powder Funnel/Flaring Die
Station 3 – Empty (perhaps a powder checker later on)
Station 4 – Hornady seating die (set-up without crimping)
Station 5 – Lee crimp die

I’m using mixed head stamp range brass and Acme 125grn RN.

After cycling two unprimed/uncharged cartridges through the Dillon, I came out with an OAL of 1.157 and a diameter at the case mouth of .378. I was pretty happy with that for a first effort. That is right in line with some of my factory ammo. Both rounds passed the plunk test in my PPQ's barrel. The case gauge released the brass cartridge without fuss, but the nickel cartridge was stubborn coming out (see pics).

So here is the cause for my concern… after loading those cartridges into my PPQ’s magazine and cycling them through a few times, I found the following:
1 – They did not feed smoothly at first (although it got better with a few more cycles). I had to rap the back of the slide to close it a few times.
2 – The bullets are chewed up (see pics)
3 – The cartridges are significantly shorter after several cycles in my pistol than they were when I started (1.148 and 1.144).

So what gives? Insufficient crimping? Bad components? My own LOFT (Lack of F’n Talent)?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide!

 

[reloaded_in_pa]

OAL is too long for your barrel. Pull the slide and drop the round in. It should be able to spin and fall out easily.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I’ll try to keep this brief without leaving out important details – my apologies if it gets long winded.

I was fortunate enough to receive a Dillon XL750 Basics kit (9mm) for Christmas. This is my way back into reloading after many years away. I loaded and shot quite a bit with my father as a child/teen, but got away from it in my later HS years and college (girls were a lot more interesting…). While I’m not new to the concepts, I am essentially starting over.

Since my Dillon dies apparently won’t get to me until sometime in 2046, I bought a set of Hornady Custom Grade dies and a Lee crimp die to get me started. Using Dillon’s excellent videos, as well as a few from Hornady (and the good ol’ MKI instruction books), I set up all of the dies today:
Station 1 – Honady sizing die
Station 2 – Dillon Powder Funnel/Flaring Die
Station 3 – Empty (perhaps a powder checker later on)
Station 4 – Hornady seating die (set-up without crimping)
Station 5 – Lee crimp die

I’m using mixed head stamp range brass and Acme 125grn RN.

After cycling two unprimed/uncharged cartridges through the Dillon, I came out with an OAL of 1.157 and a diameter at the case mouth of .378. I was pretty happy with that for a first effort. That is right in line with some of my factory ammo. Both rounds passed the plunk test in my PPQ's barrel. The case gauge released the brass cartridge without fuss, but the nickel cartridge was stubborn coming out (see pics).

So here is the cause for my concern… after loading those cartridges into my PPQ’s magazine and cycling them through a few times, I found the following:
1 – They did not feed smoothly at first (although it got better with a few more cycles). I had to rap the back of the slide to close it a few times.
2 – The bullets are chewed up (see pics)
3 – The cartridges are significantly shorter after several cycles in my pistol than they were when I started (1.148 and 1.144).

So what gives? Insufficient crimping? Bad components? My own LOFT (Lack of F’n Talent)?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide!

I load my 9mm 95g SP TO 1.107 and it runs smoothly thur CZ S2 and P-07. try making some dummy test round shorter and shorter till it feeds correctly.

question, are you getting those marks when chambering the fmj?

Crimping, once you find a good OAL that feeds right. make more dummy rounds with different crimps. I crimp until the bell of the case is smooth to the touch

 

[Bartojc]

Sounds like you did the plunk test and passed, but there is a feed problem with that length ? I've never used that bullet, but at 1.157 I'd try shortening it by .005-.010 and see if that helps. Neck tension seems good at .378, but it sounds like you are still getting set back as the lengths are getting shorter. Shortening your OAL like I mentioned may help.

-Jeff

 

[Saluki91]

I load my 9mm 95g SP TO 1.107 and it runs smoothly thur CZ S2 and P-07. try making some dummy test round shorter and shorter till it feeds correctly.

question, are you getting those marks when chambering the fmj?

Crimping, once you find a good OAL that feeds right. make more dummy rounds with different crimps. I crimp until the bell of the case is smooth to the touch

Thanks - No, FMJ does not get chewed up like these coated lead bullets are. I just cycled five rounds of some Norma FMJ through my PPQ, and they show no signs of wear.

Is it possible that there is a seating issue with my dummy rounds? Perhaps the bullet is somehow "crooked"?

Perhaps these Acme bullets aren't a good fit...? I hope not - there are "a few" on my bench right now!

I'm stumped... I cycled these dummy rounds through my gun several more times, and now their OAL is under an inch. They continue to show chew marks and marring, and the slide won't close without persuasion. I should note that if I close the slide with the slide release, it rams home without fail.

I should also add that per advice given above, I was able to spin the rounds freely in my barrel, and they drop out without assistance.

Thanks so much for your willingness to help.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Thanks - No, FMJ does not get chewed up like these coated lead bullets are. I just cycled five rounds of some Norma FMJ through my PPQ, and they show no signs of wear.

Is it possible that there is a seating issue with my dummy rounds? Perhaps the bullet is somehow "crooked"?

Perhaps these Acme bullets aren't a good fit...? I hope not - there are "a few" on my bench right now!

I'm stumped... I cycled these dummy rounds through my gun several more times, and now their OAL is under an inch. They continue to show chew marks and marring, and the slide won't close without persuasion. I should note that if I close the slide with the slide release, it rams home without fail.

I should also add that per advice given above, I was able to spin the rounds freely in my barrel, and they drop out without assistance.

Thanks so much for your willingness to help.

Have you removed the side like suggested?
If there is no issue with plunking them into the barrel. Then you have an issue with the bullet profile and the feed ramp.
If it doesn't plunk. The length is too long.

 

[Saluki91]

Have you removed the side like suggested?
If there is no issue with plunking them into the barrel. Then you have an issue with the bullet profile and the feed ramp.
If it doesn't plunk. The length is too long.

Thanks - Yes... I removed the slide, and plunked them again. They spin freely in the barrel, and fall out without persuasion.

should I be concerned that the OAL continues to shrink as I run them through the weapon? Is that merely a result of no powder in the case, or is there a bigger issue?

Thanks!

 

[WeekendReloader]

Per Hodgdon's data, I started with 1.1" OAL on a Berry's 115gn 9mm bullet. This plunked fine (probably shorter than needed). I get 100% functionality with my PPQ.
I could go a little longer, but this load works in multiple pistols so I settled on it.

My LEE 356-125-2R I'm loading at 1.08". The LEE 356-102-1R I'm loading at 1.03". These were plunk tested to find the max OAL and than shortened 0.02" to give a little room for tolerances.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Thanks - No, FMJ does not get chewed up like these coated lead bullets are. I just cycled five rounds of some Norma FMJ through my PPQ, and they show no signs of wear.

Is it possible that there is a seating issue with my dummy rounds? Perhaps the bullet is somehow "crooked"?

Perhaps these Acme bullets aren't a good fit...? I hope not - there are "a few" on my bench right now!

I'm stumped... I cycled these dummy rounds through my gun several more times, and now their OAL is under an inch. They continue to show chew marks and marring, and the slide won't close without persuasion. I should note that if I close the slide with the slide release, it rams home without fail.

I should also add that per advice given above, I was able to spin the rounds freely in my barrel, and they drop out without assistance.

Thanks so much for your willingness to help.

try this: make some dummy round at
1.120 heavy crimp
1.110 heavy crimp
1.130 heavy crimp

Wobbling dummy rounds: bell the case a little more so the bullet will seat straighter. When your seating the bullet, turn the brass a little, ram 1/2 way up, turn the brass a little more, ram up a little more. then roll it on a flat surface to see if it’s wobbly

the bullet should be fine, I think your loading them long

 

[Bfh_auto]

Thanks - Yes... I removed the slide, and plunked them again. They spin freely in the barrel, and fall out without persuasion.

should I be concerned that the OAL continues to shrink as I run them through the weapon? Is that merely a result of no powder in the case, or is there a bigger issue?

Thanks!

You should be concerned about changing COAL. It dramatically changes pressure in small cartridges.
Clearing the lands is the first part of finding your seating depth. You've done that.
Part two is finding the length that will feed.
Seat a bullet progressively shorter until you get proper feeding. Or you get to the minimum overall length.
I can't help with that part.
Adjusting your crimp will come next.
Others can help more on that than I.

 

[AJC1]

Your Oal is long and your neck tension is insufficient. Your expander is to big or your bullet is small... what is the measurement of your bullet.... I run the Lyman book oal of 1.090 and have zero problems.
Measure the diameter of your expander... it seems to me that your not using the mandrel in station 2 and over flaring the cases.

 

[BreechFace]

Different bullets will have different profiles. Your measurement of Geco and Norma loaded ammo only tells you what the OAL should be for those bullet profiles. One should always try and find load data for the particular bullet being used as profiles can be different with the same grain weight bullets.

As was said by others above it seems that your OAL is too long.

 

[Saluki91]

Different bullets will have different profiles. Your measurement of Geco and Norma loaded ammo only tells you what the OAL should be for those bullet profiles. One should always try and find load data for the particular bullet being used as profiles can be different with the same grain weight bullets.

As was said by others above it seems that your OAL is too long.

Thanks... I’ll start looking for Acme load data.

 

[Saluki91]

Your Oal is long and your neck tension is insufficient. Your expander is to big or your bullet is small... what is the measurement of your bullet.... I run the Lyman book oal of 1.090 and have zero problems.
Measure the diameter of your expander... it seems to me that your not using the mandrel in station 2 and over flaring the cases.

Thanks... a lot of good stuff to digest here. I appreciate the help!

 

[Saluki91]

You should be concerned about changing COAL. It dramatically changes pressure in small cartridges.
Clearing the lands is the first part of finding your seating depth. You've done that.
Part two is finding the length that will feed.
Seat a bullet progressively shorter until you get proper feeding. Or you get to the minimum overall length.
I can't help with that part.
Adjusting your crimp will come next.
Others can help more on that than I.

Thanks... I’ll use this when I try again this evening.

 

[Saluki91]

try this: make some dummy round at
1.120 heavy crimp
1.110 heavy crimp
1.130 heavy crimp

Wobbling dummy rounds: bell the case a little more so the bullet will seat straighter. When your seating the bullet, turn the brass a little, ram 1/2 way up, turn the brass a little more, ram up a little more. then roll it on a flat surface to see if it’s wobbly

the bullet should be fine, I think your loading them long

I’ll try these tips... thanks!

 

[gifbohane]

Like the others have said, I load 9mm at about 1.1 or 1.2 OAL.

I used to use 1.4 for 125 Grains. That would probably not function in my CZ.

 

[Saluki91]

Your Oal is long and your neck tension is insufficient. Your expander is to big or your bullet is small... what is the measurement of your bullet.... I run the Lyman book oal of 1.090 and have zero problems.
Measure the diameter of your expander... it seems to me that your not using the mandrel in station 2 and over flaring the cases.

I measured 5 Bullets... all .356

That is what Acme advertises as well.

Thanks!

 

[Soonerpesek]

After cycling two unprimed/uncharged cartridges through the Dillon,

Would you possibly try cycling some dummy rounds with a spent primer in them, and see if your coal changes...?....Just a spitball..

 

[AJC1]

I measured 5 Bullets... all .356

That is what Acme advertises as well.

Thanks!

Well that means your bullets are not small so that is eliminated. That leaves the sizing die and the expander to resolve bullet tension. Crimp is not something I depend on unless tube loading in a lever gun with a health roll crimp.

 

[Saluki91]

Well that means your bullets are not small so that is eliminated. That leaves the sizing die and the expander to resolve bullet tension. Crimp is not something I depend on unless tube loading in a lever gun with a health roll crimp.

I backed off the sizing die (it felt stout... a lot of resistance), strengthened the crimp, and reduced the OAL.

As I type this, 1.024 OAL runs through my gun like a charm. 1.050 was still a bit long. I’m working my way back up until I find the longest OAL that works.

That being said, am I flirting with disaster? At those lengths, should I be worried about excessive pressure? I’ll be loading Vectan BA 9 (similar to Unique) and/or AA #5.

Thanks!

PS - 1.040ish seems to be the sweet spot.

 

[AJC1]

I backed off the sizing die (it felt stout... a lot of resistance), strengthened the crimp, and reduced the OAL.

As I type this, 1.024 OAL runs through my gun like a charm. 1.050 was still a bit long. I’m working my way back up until I find the longest OAL that works.

That being said, am I flirting with disaster? At those lengths, should I be worried about excessive pressure? I’ll be loading Vectan BA 9 (similar to Unique) and/or AA #5.

Thanks!

PS - 1.040ish seems to be the sweet spot.

Push forward to the 1.090 to 1.1 region unless you run into problems. There is s lot more documented loads in this range and the percentage change in under bullet volume becomes a lot less. Small changes in very short oals are large percentage changes and its effect on pressure swings are way more Sensitive.

 

[Saluki91]

Push forward to the 1.090 to 1.1 region unless you run into problems. There is s lot more documented loads in this range and the percentage change in under bullet volume becomes a lot less. Small changes in very short oals are large percentage changes and its effect on pressure swings are way more Sensitive.

Therein lies the rub... My gun (PPQ M2) won't cycle these Acme 125gr bullets any longer than where I am now (1.037-1.040). At 1.050, I have to rap the back of the slide to fully chamber 5 dummy rounds out of 10.

Vectan's load data calls for a minimum of 3.9gr to a maximum of 4.8gr for a 125gr RN bullet. Can I fit that much powder under a bullet at 1.037 OAL? If I do, am I running the risk of being called "Stumpy" for the rest of my life?

Again - Thanks for your patience and assistance.

 

[AJC1]

Therein lies the rub... My gun (PPQ M2) won't cycle these Acme 125gr bullets any longer than where I am now (1.037-1.040). At 1.050, I have to rap the back of the slide to fully chamber 5 dummy rounds out of 10.

Vectan's load data calls for a minimum of 3.9gr to a maximum of 4.8gr for a 125gr RN bullet. Can I fit that much powder under a bullet at 1.037 OAL? If I do, am I running the risk of being called "Stumpy" for the rest of my life?

Again - Thanks for your patience and assistance.

I havent seen load data that short but that is definitely a thing. I havent done it myself and for that reason will not guess what you should do.... there are a few here like livelife and walkalong that may have experience to safety guide you. I wish I could provide more help but I acknowledge the limits of my experience and knowledge and direct you to those two very experienced members.

 

[Saluki91]

Thanks - I will reach out to them. You have bee very helpful!

Cheers!