Starting to reload a new cartridge

[vaalpens]

I think we all do this sometimes. We buy a new gun just to be able to start reloading a new cartridge.

For me it is not just reloading a new cartridge, but also scratching and itch and filling a niche.

I have always wanted to reload 380 Auto and needed to fill me pocket carry need.

Yesterday I finally decided that it is time and I ordered a Ruger LCP Max Elite, 380 Auto.

I have not received the Ruger yet, but I definitely had to start preparing to create some reloads. Following are all the task and purchases I need to make for this new cartridge:

• New pistol (ordered and on the way)
• New dies (I have ordered the Lee 380 Auto 4 die set. $78. Not cheap anymore)
• 380 Auto cases. I have just over a 150, should be good for now, but will need more.
• Decapped the cases already and will need to send them through my cleaning process.
• Probably will need new plastic containers (1 x range brass, 1 x ready for clean brass, 1 x ready for load brass)
• I have some 115gr bullets, but will probably need some 80-95gr bullets for the 380 Auto
• Load research
• I have plenty different powders that should work in 380 Auto, so no need to buy any new powders
• I have plenty primers, so no new primers will be needed
• My load data spreadsheet will have to be updated to add the new cartridge
• I have some printed case sorting pages, will need to create one for 380 Auto
• Need to decide if I am going to buy any factory 380 Auto ammo, or just go with reloads.
• I can probably use my 9mm reloading trays for now, but will probably need to get a couple for the 380 Auto
• I also need to get an additional quick change turret for my Lee Classic Turret. (ordered for $14.89)

I would appreciate it if you can comment/share on which powders and bullet combinations work best for 380 Auto, especially for the Ruger LCP family.

 

[rg1]

I haven’t experimented much with .380 bullets or powders. Unique powder showed wide velocity spreads. Accurate Arms AA#2 showed good and consistent velocity using AA data. Hornady 90 grain XTP’s have fed perfectly in 3 pistols. Don’t do a lot of plinking with .380 and the 90 XTP isn’t too expensive and supposed to be a good performing bullet. CCI small pistol primers used.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have used lead in both conical and round nose profiles, plated round nose and hollow point, and jacketed flat nose, round nose and hollow point. I just started experimenting with the Lehigh copper penetrating bullets and they are very easy to work with. But pricey!

In powders, I’ve had good results from Ramshot Competition, Accurate No.’s 2 & 5, Bullseye, Red Dot, TiteGroup and W231. Unique needs more breathing room than the little .380 cases can provide but it will work for lighter loads.
The best results for plinking came from the plated Berrys and Xtreme both in 95gr wt. The cast bullets I’ve been using are older and those companies no longer exist but there’s no reason a coated bullet from a good caster won’t work. There’s lots out there and they are all pretty much the same.
For jacketed I like Speer for cost savings and the quality is always good but Hornady is as good in my experience.
Stick to under 950fps loads for comfort and a 90-95gr bullet until you get a feel for the gun. I use book values from the Western 8.0 manual, Lyman’s 48th, the Xtreme download and the older Ideal manuals. I have both blowback and locked-breech pistols and find most of the loads are interchangeable. I do not use heavy loads in pre-60’s blowback pistols. I’m not that fond of being peppered with hot ash.
Good luck and have fun.

 

[LiveLife]

Need to decide if I am going to buy any factory 380 Auto ammo, or just go with reloads.

comment/share on which powders and bullet combinations work best for 380 Auto

I would just go with reloads as my .380Auto load development produced accuracy better than factory.

As to powder selection, since start/max charge range is very narrow around/less than .5 gr, I would go with powder that meters well. (Hodgdon W231/HP-38 load data for 95/100 gr bullets have only .2-.3 gr start/max spread)

Here's my load development using 100 gr X-Treme RNFP plated bullet and W231/HP-38 referencing factory ammunition for felt recoil comparison in parenthesis (Hodgdon FMJ load data referenced with 2.9-3.1 gr start/max charges) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/380auto-x-treme-100-gr-rnfp-range-test.748320/

• 2.6 gr under 1" group (4/10 felt recoil)
• 2.8 gr 1.25" (6/10 felt recoil)
• 3.0 gr 1.25" (8/10 felt recoil)

 

[Charlie98]

I normally use Unique to load the .380... for my pistols... which are both 'full size' .380's (a Colt Government, and a PPK/s,) so the powder actually has a chance to burn. Unique is probably not the hot setup in the shorter LCP's 2.8" barrel, I would definitely pick something a little faster... W231, TiteGroup, or something along those lines, and particularly with lighter bullets.

I don't know anything about the brass... I get my .380 brass from my factory ammos, normally RP, but the last batch was Fiocchi (GFL.) I don't know if there is tricky brass out there... like stepped brass or something... so I'd be looking pretty closely at your range pickups.

Personally, my favorite way to get brass for handloading is to buy a case of factory ammo. You get, say, 500 rounds of ammo with no effort, and doesn't eat into your primer or powder stash, it allows you to shoot your pistol and get used to factory performance, and leaves you with good brass for reloading that you know the source of. Further, I always have some factory ammos with me to compare my handloads to, and to prove my chronograph setup. Factory ammo is a useful tool.

 

[murf]

w231, cci300, 95 gn lrn (bear creek) - practice, 68 gn lehigh xd - self defense, mixed cases, col as long as you can get it and still plunk.

note: I use starline cases for my self defense loads.

luck,

murf

 

[vaalpens]

I have updated my original post with some additional things I need. Not sure how I missed it before:

• I can probably use my 9mm reloading trays for now, but will probably need to get a couple for the 380 Auto specific loading trays.
• I also need to get an additional quick change turret for my Lee Classic Turret.

 

[cfullgraf]

The 115 gr bullets are too heavy to be useful in the 380 ACP. You can probably get them to work but velocity will be low.

I’ve shot some 38 cal 110 JHP bullets in my Beretta M84 and that is what I found.

Usually up to 100 grains is the best but I’ve had good luck shooting 105 grain SWC cast from a Lee mould. Again in my M84.

Since I’ve acquired smaller 380 pistols, I’ve stop experimenting on bullets and stick mostly with round nose bullets. HP bullets designed for the 380 function well but they do not always expand.

I use 700-X, W-231, and Unique in my 380 ACP ammunition. It is what I keep on hand. Similar powders would work well as well.

 

[vaalpens]

I haven’t experimented much with .380 bullets or powders. Unique powder showed wide velocity spreads. Accurate Arms AA#2 showed good and consistent velocity using AA data. Hornady 90 grain XTP’s have fed perfectly in 3 pistols. Don’t do a lot of plinking with .380 and the 90 XTP isn’t too expensive and supposed to be a good performing bullet. CCI small pistol primers used.

Thanks for the information. I'll probably stay away from the premium bullets, but will have to se if the RN or FP bullets work best. RMR has some reasonably priced RN bullets, but FN bullets will have to come from another seller. I'll probably start with some faster and less bulky powders, purely for the case fill issue.

 

[vaalpens]

The 115 gr bullets are too heavy to be useful in the 380 ACP. You can probably get them to work but velocity will be low.

I’ve shot some 38 cal 110 JHP bullets in my Beretta M84 and that is what I found.

Usually up to 100 grains is the best but I’ve had good luck shooting 105 grain SWC cast from a Lee mould. Again in my M84.

Since I’ve acquired smaller 380 pistols, I’ve stop experimenting on bullets and stick mostly with round nose bullets. HP bullets designed for the 380 function well but they do not always expand.

I use 700-X, W-231, and Unique in my 380 ACP ammunition. It is what I keep on hand. Similar powders would work well as well.

Thanks for the information. I'll stick with up to 100gr bullets, but will try some 115gr bullets at some time, just for the fun of it. The powders you listed will be used initially, but I have seen good load data up to Power Pistol.

 

[JohnB-40]

I'm looking forward to your results.

 

[vaalpens]

I have used lead in both conical and round nose profiles, plated round nose and hollow point, and jacketed flat nose, round nose and hollow point. I just started experimenting with the Lehigh copper penetrating bullets and they are very easy to work with. But pricey!

In powders, I’ve had good results from Ramshot Competition, Accurate No.’s 2 & 5, Bullseye, Red Dot, TiteGroup and W231. Unique needs more breathing room than the little .380 cases can provide but it will work for lighter loads.
The best results for plinking came from the plated Berrys and Xtreme both in 95gr wt. The cast bullets I’ve been using are older and those companies no longer exist but there’s no reason a coated bullet from a good caster won’t work. There’s lots out there and they are all pretty much the same.
For jacketed I like Speer for cost savings and the quality is always good but Hornady is as good in my experience.
Stick to under 950fps loads for comfort and a 90-95gr bullet until you get a feel for the gun. I use book values from the Western 8.0 manual, Lyman’s 48th, the Xtreme download and the older Ideal manuals. I have both blowback and locked-breech pistols and find most of the loads are interchangeable. I do not use heavy loads in pre-60’s blowback pistols. I’m not that fond of being peppered with hot ash.
Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the advice. I will probably start with HP38/W231, Bullseye or TiteGroup. For a bullet I am leaning towards the RMR 95gr FMJ RN bullet, which is reasonably priced and local for me. Once I get a feel for the gun, then maybe I'll start expanding to AA#5, BE86 or CFE Pistol on the slower burn rate side.

 

[vaalpens]

I would just go with reloads as my .380Auto load development produced accuracy better than factory.

As to powder selection, since start/max charge range is very narrow around/less than .5 gr, I would go with powder that meters well. (Hodgdon W231/HP-38 load data for 95/100 gr bullets have only .2-.3 gr start/max spread)

Here's my load development using 100 gr X-Treme RNFP plated bullet and W231/HP-38 referencing factory ammunition for felt recoil comparison in parenthesis (Hodgdon FMJ load data referenced with 2.9-3.1 gr start/max charges) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/380auto-x-treme-100-gr-rnfp-range-test.748320/

• 2.6 gr under 1" group (4/10 felt recoil)
• 2.8 gr 1.25" (6/10 felt recoil)
• 3.0 gr 1.25" (8/10 felt recoil)

Thanks for the detailed information and link to your testing results. I will definitely share my testing results as I proceed with my reloading journey with the new cartridge.

W231/HP38 is always recommended for 380Auto, so it will definitely be one of the first powders I will try.

From a bullet perspective I'll maybe start with the RMR 95gr FMJ RN, and hopefully it will work well for me.

I have a few cartridges that I have never bought any factory ammo for, but for 380 Auto I'll probably buy some, just to be able to add to the limited number of cases I have available to load.

 

[vaalpens]

I normally use Unique to load the .380... for my pistols... which are both 'full size' .380's (a Colt Government, and a PPK/s,) so the powder actually has a chance to burn. Unique is probably not the hot setup in the shorter LCP's 2.8" barrel, I would definitely pick something a little faster... W231, TiteGroup, or something along those lines, and particularly with lighter bullets.

I don't know anything about the brass... I get my .380 brass from my factory ammos, normally RP, but the last batch was Fiocchi (GFL.) I don't know if there is tricky brass out there... like stepped brass or something... so I'd be looking pretty closely at your range pickups.

Personally, my favorite way to get brass for handloading is to buy a case of factory ammo. You get, say, 500 rounds of ammo with no effort, and doesn't eat into your primer or powder stash, it allows you to shoot your pistol and get used to factory performance, and leaves you with good brass for reloading that you know the source of. Further, I always have some factory ammos with me to compare my handloads to, and to prove my chronograph setup. Factory ammo is a useful tool.

Thanks for the advice. I concur regarding the Unique and the shorter barrel. Unique will be one of the later powder I will try.

I definitely will need some additional brass, so I will buy some factory ammo if it is reasonably priced. The benefit will be twofold since I will be able to compare test results against my reloads, and add to my stock of cases to reload.

 

[vaalpens]

w231, cci300, 95 gn lrn (bear creek) - practice, 68 gn lehigh xd - self defense, mixed cases, col as long as you can get it and still plunk.

note: I use starline cases for my self defense loads.

luck,

murf

Thanks for the information. You probably meant cci500, not cci300.

I'm not sure how tight the primer pockets are for 380Auto, but if it is all over the spectrum like in 9mm, then I'll probably start with Federal 100 primers since they are a bit softer and easier to load in 9mm.

 

[vaalpens]

I'm looking forward to your results.

Thanks!

 

[irishlad]

I think we all do this sometimes. We buy a new gun just to be able to start reloading a new cartridge.

For me it is not just reloading a new cartridge, but also scratching and itch and filling a niche.

I have always wanted to reload 380 Auto and needed to fill me pocket carry need.

Yesterday I finally decided that it is time and I ordered a Ruger LCP Max Elite, 380 Auto.

I have not received the Ruger yet, but I definitely had to start preparing to create some reloads. Following are all the task and purchases I need to make for this new cartridge:

• New pistol (ordered and on the way)
• New dies (I have ordered the Lee 380 Auto 4 die set. $78. Not cheap anymore)
• 380 Auto cases. I have just over a 150, should be good for now, but will need more.
• Decapped the cases already and will need to send them through my cleaning process.
• Probably will need new plastic containers (1 x range brass, 1 x ready for clean brass, 1 x ready for load brass)
• I have some 115gr bullets, but will probably need some 80-95gr bullets for the 380 Auto
• Load research
• I have plenty different powders that should work in 380 Auto, so no need to buy any new powders
• I have plenty primers, so no new primers will be needed
• My load data spreadsheet will have to be updated to add the new cartridge
• I have some printed case sorting pages, will need to create one for 380 Auto
• Need to decide if I am going to buy any factory 380 Auto ammo, or just go with reloads.
• I can probably use my 9mm reloading trays for now, but will probably need to get a couple for the 380 Auto
• I also need to get an additional quick change turret for my Lee Classic Turret. (ordered for $14.89)

I would appreciate it if you can comment/share on which powders and bullet combinations work best for 380 Auto, especially for the Ruger LCP family.

Not sure where ya bought the dies, but Midway and Amazon got em for about $20 less. I'm only mentioning it in case you plan on buying more in the future.

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 380 ACP

The Lee Deluxe Handgun 4-Die Set is a great set of reloading dies for anyone looking for a set of dies that will reload accurate ammunition every time...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[mstreddy]

Vaalpens,
Look for the various posts that Art Of Golf and others made on loading the 380. There is some very good info in them.
I've used Win 231 and Promo/Red Dot. I'll post my data later this evening once I get home.

 

[mstreddy]

OK, here are a couple of 380 loading posts.

This is one of the threads: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-the-glock-42-part-ii.760320/#post-9598011
This is the search for the series: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...+for+the+glock+42&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

 

[Charlie98]

Thanks for the advice. I will probably start with HP38/W231, Bullseye or TiteGroup. For a bullet I am leaning towards the RMR 95gr FMJ RN bullet, which is reasonably priced and local for me. Once I get a feel for the gun, then maybe I'll start expanding to AA#5, BE86 or CFE Pistol on the slower burn rate side.

As much as I dislike TiteGroup, it does excel in one place (IMHO...) and that is 9mm, and very likely it's baby brother, .380ACP.

For a while I was in heavy bullet mode, even for the .380. The heaviest jacketed bullet I could find was some Remington Golden Saber 102grn JHP's; they worked well enough, over a charge of Unique... but that was in the longer barrel of the Colt (4") In fact, I still have 100 of them. I don't know that I would go any heavier than the 95grn bullets you have, unless you are just fooling around.

I also load for some short barreled (3.1" and 3.6") 9mm's. Again, the faster powders work very well, even that nasty TiteGroup. I hit a velocity threshold in both pistols using BE-86 and a 124grn FMJ... where more powder added zero additional velocity. My conclusion was it was just too slow for the short barrels on my pistols, although it got the job done. I would think W231 or TiteGroup would be the Easy Button for your shorty .380... truthfully, I wouldn't even waste my time with Unique... which I love... or any other powder in that burn range or slower. Just me .02 worth.

The very little data I have...

These out of my 4" Colt's Government .380...

Speer 95grn factory GoldDots... 950fps
MagTech 95grn factory FMJ... 900fps
Fiocchi 95grn factory FMJ... 800fps

3.8grn W231 under a 95grn Rainier PRN... 950fps.

As you can see, the Speer GoldDots are likely optimized for short barreled pistols, which most defensive .380's likely are. That 950fps ensures the bullet has a fair chance of expansion.

 

[vaalpens]

Not sure where ya bought the dies, but Midway and Amazon got em for about $20 less. I'm only mentioning it in case you plan on buying more in the future.

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 380 ACP

The Lee Deluxe Handgun 4-Die Set is a great set of reloading dies for anyone looking for a set of dies that will reload accurate ammunition every time...

www.midwayusa.com

Thanks for the information and taking time to research prices.

I bought directly from Lee Precision. I did look at Amazon, but couldn't find the 4 die set, so I just went with Lee Precision. I probably should have done more research, but it is water under the bridge for now.

 

[vaalpens]

Vaalpens,
Look for the various posts that Art Of Golf and others made on loading the 380. There is some very good info in them.
I've used Win 231 and Promo/Red Dot. I'll post my data later this evening once I get home.

OK, here are a couple of 380 loading posts.

This is one of the threads: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-the-glock-42-part-ii.760320/#post-9598011
This is the search for the series: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...+for+the+glock+42&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

Thanks for the information and I will definitely research some more posts on THR.

 

[vaalpens]

As much as I dislike TiteGroup, it does excel in one place (IMHO...) and that is 9mm, and very likely it's baby brother, .380ACP.

For a while I was in heavy bullet mode, even for the .380. The heaviest jacketed bullet I could find was some Remington Golden Saber 102grn JHP's; they worked well enough, over a charge of Unique... but that was in the longer barrel of the Colt (4") In fact, I still have 100 of them. I don't know that I would go any heavier than the 95grn bullets you have, unless you are just fooling around.

I also load for some short barreled (3.1" and 3.6") 9mm's. Again, the faster powders work very well, even that nasty TiteGroup. I hit a velocity threshold in both pistols using BE-86 and a 124grn FMJ... where more powder added zero additional velocity. My conclusion was it was just too slow for the short barrels on my pistols, although it got the job done. I would think W231 or TiteGroup would be the Easy Button for your shorty .380... truthfully, I wouldn't even waste my time with Unique... which I love... or any other powder in that burn range or slower. Just me .02 worth.

The very little data I have...

These out of my 4" Colt's Government .380...

Speer 95grn factory GoldDots... 950fps
MagTech 95grn factory FMJ... 900fps
Fiocchi 95grn factory FMJ... 800fps

3.8grn W231 under a 95grn Rainier PRN... 950fps.

As you can see, the Speer GoldDots are likely optimized for short barreled pistols, which most defensive .380's likely are. That 950fps ensures the bullet has a fair chance of expansion.

Thanks again for all the information and advice. The LCP MAX has a 2.8" barrel, so it is very short. Based on all the information so far it seems that 95gr will probably be best to start with, matched with powder on the faster side. W231/HP38and TiteGroup will definitely be in the mix.

I will definitely post my test loads over here, which will include load data, grouping and velocity information. This is going to be an interesting journey for me.

 

[Dudedog]

Just checked the .380 emergency aid package I sent to you, still in CA but on time to be there Monday.
I tossed in some interesting 90gr Sierra HPs so you will have some 90s to try, couple other flavors as well.
As I mentioned I like AA#2 for anything less than full power, meters great. CFE-P is my go to for full power .380 in my Kahr. (locked breech)
Power pistol is probably a good choice for full power stuff as well, I haven't tried AA#5 or Silhouette in .380 but they might be good choices for full power stuff also..
I haven't tried HP38 but did try ZIP (which while not the same behaves a lot like HP38 IMO) it worked well but for me AA#2 was more accurate. (and meters better than HP38 or ZIP)

I don't have any numbers on case thickness like Livelife did for 9mm but .380 brass seems to vary more in thickness than anything else I have loaded so watch your neck tension.
Always fun to take a new journey, hope you enjoy it!

 

[vaalpens]

Just checked the .380 emergency aid package I sent to you, still in CA but on time to be there Monday.
I tossed in some interesting 90gr Sierra HPs so you will have some 90s to try, couple other flavors as well.
As I mentioned I like AA#2 for anything less than full power, meters great. CFE-P is my go to for full power .380 in my Kahr. (locked breech)
Power pistol is probably a good choice for full power stuff as well, I haven't tried AA#5 or Silhouette in .380 but they might be good choices for full power stuff also..
I haven't tried HP38 but did try ZIP (which while not the same behaves a lot like HP38 IMO) it worked well but for me AA#2 was more accurate. (and meters better than HP38 or ZIP)

I don't have any numbers on case thickness like Livelife did for 9mm but .380 brass seems to vary more in thickness than anything else I have loaded so watch your neck tension.
Always fun to take a new journey, hope you enjoy it!

Thanks Dudedog! As always, your care packages are always appreciated. I just hope that one day I'll be able to repay all your generosity.

The best I can do short term is to share all my test data to allow everybody to learn something, good or bad. there will obviously be no attached scope, so accuracy will ne limited to my eyes and the sights. It seems the consensus is to test the accuracy for a micro pistol at 7 yards.

Since you are sending me some cases, I think that will definitely allow me to even initially sort by headstamp, which is my preference.