Starting to reload a new cartridge

Before I go out and test these loads, what distance do you normally test these micro pocket pistols at. I am thinking of maximum 10 yards, or maybe just the standard 7 yards.
 
vaalpens said:
Before I go out and test these loads, what distance do you normally test these micro pocket pistols at. I am thinking of maximum 10 yards, or maybe just the standard 7 yards.
Click to expand...
Well, me personally I use neither of those, I use 25feet. I have 25’ slow fire pistol targets for just that purpose.
 
I would do ten yards. You want a decent spread on that group for evaluation purposes.

Keep a stiff wrist when shooting that little guy. It will try to break (unhinge) your wrist with every shot.

luck,

murf
 
Blue68f100 said:
If I have some kind of optic (dot or scope) I can mount I shoot at 25 yrds. If not I have to move the target closer to see. Normally it will be around 15 yrds then.
Click to expand...
Not much I can mount on the Ruger LCP. The Max has decent sights, so I think 10yds will probably be max for me, and then maybe 15 yds if I want to differentiate between two good grouping loads.
 
murf said:
I would do ten yards. You want a decent spread on that group for evaluation purposes.

Keep a stiff wrist when shooting that little guy. It will try to break (unhinge) your wrist with every shot.

luck,

murf
Click to expand...
Thanks murf. Yes, I am also leaning towards 10yds. I probably just need to decide if I want to use a 1" or 1.5" dot as target. I'll have to just try it out and see which works out better with the sights and my eyes.
 
vaalpens said:
Interesting. How did you come up with 25feet? Do you mind sharing an image of your 25' target.
Click to expand...
I buy them from here:

Pistol Shooting Targets - American Target Company

American Target Company is one of the largest manufacturers of competitive targets in the United States. Printing Official National Rifle Association, National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, Police Silhouette, Law Enforcement Targets, Animal Silhouette, United States Benchrest Targets, and...
www.americantargetcompany.com
The club I belonged to in Brevard county held 25’ competitions every Sunday and I guess I just got used to that being the ideal range for pistol. Shorter than 10yds by 5’.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
I buy them from here:

Pistol Shooting Targets - American Target Company

American Target Company is one of the largest manufacturers of competitive targets in the United States. Printing Official National Rifle Association, National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, Police Silhouette, Law Enforcement Targets, Animal Silhouette, United States Benchrest Targets, and...
www.americantargetcompany.com
The club I belonged to in Brevard county held 25’ competitions every Sunday and I guess I just got used to that being the ideal range for pistol. Shorter than 10yds by 5’.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Probably makes sense. Longer than the standard 21' for a pocket pistol, but shorter than 10yds, which is maybe a stretch.
 
I was finally able to do some testing today. It was a bit cold, around 36 degrees, but at least I was able to complete my testing without any issues.

This was the first testing I did for 380auto reloads, so there were some lessons learned. I did test at 25ft, which seems like a good test, but realized my dot I was aiming at was a bit small. The LCP Max has a reasonable size front sight. I will have to increase the size of the aiming dot, for more consistent accuracy testing.

I think the chrono was accurate, but it seems ES numbers were high. I'm not sure if this is for all 380auto loads, or if my neck tension for this brass wasn't very consistent. This is something I will have to probably test//verify again.

This is a good starting point for me, but I will have to improve on accuracy, and also try and resolve the high ES numbers.

I haven't scanned the targets yet, but will do so and post images of the better results.

380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, HP38, 2.9gr, CCI500
Average: 697
ES: 53
SD: 23
Force: 102
PF: 66
Velocities: 670, 723, 706, 676, 711
Grouping @ 25ft: 0.9"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, HP38, 3gr, CCI500
Average: 755
ES: 33
SD: 16.4
Force: 120
PF: 71
Velocities: 738, 744, 771, 767,
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.66"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, HP38, 3.1gr, CCI500
Average: 768
ES: 49
SD: 20.5
Force: 124
PF: 72
Velocities: 758, 783, 786, 776, 737
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.58"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, HP38, 3.2gr, CCI500
Average: 744
ES: 74
SD: 31
Force: 117
PF: 70
Velocities: 761, 756, 781, 718, 707
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.97"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 3.7gr, CCI500
Average: 704
ES: 90
SD: 36.9
Force: 105
PF: 66
Velocities: 672, 716, 705, 760, 670
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.7"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 3.8gr, CCI500
Average: 714
ES: 79
SD: 31.4
Force: 108
PF: 67
Velocities: 661, 728, 714, 740, 730
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.63"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 729
ES: 78
SD: 29.5
Force: 112
PF: 69
Velocities: 745, 759, 727, 681, 733
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.15"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 761
ES: 102
SD: 42.5
Force: 122
PF: 72
Velocities: 723, 777, 712, 779, 814
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.09"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 4.1gr, CCI500
Average: 771
ES: 86
SD: 36.6
Force: 125
PF: 73
Velocities: 792, 823, 739, 737, 765
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.66"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 806
ES: 82
SD: 35.2
Force: 137
PF: 76
Velocities: 825, 744, 826, 824, 812
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.08"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
 
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.380 is actually the only caliber I don't reload for, and coincidentally the only centerfire round that I have factory ammo for. lol

I also look forward to loading for a new round though. Heck, I've bought equipment for guns I don't have.
I was at a yard sale and saw a Hornady die set for .44 magnum. I always wanted one and knew I'd eventually buy one, so I got the dies. Had them on the bench for a few years before actually buying the gun. But hey, they were $10 and I knew I'd end up with one.
 
vaalpens said:
I think we all do this sometimes. We buy a new gun just to be able to start reloading a new cartridge.
Click to expand...
Im guilty of this! The first thing that I do when I buy a gun that shoots a cartridge that I don't load for is buy a die set, a shell plate conversion for my Dillon, some brass and if its a handgun a bullet mold and a sizing die. Its not a cheap deal for me to add a new cartridge to my loading bench! But its fun................
 
lightman said:
Im guilty of this! The first thing that I do when I buy a gun that shoots a cartridge that I don't load for is buy a die set, a shell plate conversion for my Dillon, some brass and if its a handgun a bullet mold and a sizing die. Its not a cheap deal for me to add a new cartridge to my loading bench! But its fun................
Click to expand...
When Lee dies were $20 a set w/ free shipping and the flea markets had at least a few tables with reloading gear it was cheap to take on a new cartridge. Now, nothing is cheap.
 
I thought I had my next test loads all planned out, but after reviewing the results from 11/27, it seems that the velocities I see are very low.

So it looks like I am back to the planning phase again. I now need to decide if I just want to proceed with my previous planned loads, or revisit my previous powders and see if I can get closer to the 1000fps velocity. It seems I should be able to reach velocities in the 900's with the LCP, and even reach 1000 fps.

The Speer load data for W231(HP38) shows a max load of 4.0gr, where my max was 3.2gr. That is a big difference. This load data was also tested by Handloader with a Ruger LCP, with 1000fps reached.

For those looking for some published test data with a Ruger LCP, the following link shows some test data:
https://loaddata.com/Article/LoadDevelopment/Top-10-Reloaded-Handgun-Cartridges-7-380-Auto/703
 
Concerning reloading .380 Auto... I've used the Xtreme 100 grain plated FP bullet. It's adequate for practice at the distances the gun you're using is able to hit the target. I wouldn't call them tack drivers. No plated bullet really is. I've gotten better accuracy in my various guns (S&W Bodyguards, Glock 42s, Browning 1911-380) with 95 grain MBC coated cast lead bullets, with no loss in reliability, and no leading at velocities at or below 900 fps. As for jacketed bullets, I've used both Hornady 90 grain XTP and Sierra 90 grain JHP and V-Crown. They are all more accurate than the pistol. At 950 fps they all expand to varying degrees and penetrate 10-13" of ballistic gel.

As for propellant choices there are many. I use 3.0 grains of Titegroup with the 95 grain cast bullets and it works very well, for appx 875-900 fps in the 2.75" barrel guns. I use 4.5 grains of Power Pistol for the JHP loads (below maximum according to Alliant), and get 940-980 fps out of those same barrels. Any small pistol primer works fine.

As for the LCP Max, best of luck with it. I had one, terrible trigger, shot very low and was inaccurate beyond 25 feet, also dropped magazines while firing. Returned to the factory for repair with no improvement. Went down the road. I had a client bring one with a later manufacture date, and it shot much closer to POA, but still wasn't anything in regards to accuracy, and also dropped mags.
 
Boom Vang said:
Concerning reloading .380 Auto... I've used the Xtreme 100 grain plated FP bullet. It's adequate for practice at the distances the gun you're using is able to hit the target. I wouldn't call them tack drivers. No plated bullet really is. I've gotten better accuracy in my various guns (S&W Bodyguards, Glock 42s, Browning 1911-380) with 95 grain MBC coated cast lead bullets, with no loss in reliability, and no leading at velocities at or below 900 fps. As for jacketed bullets, I've used both Hornady 90 grain XTP and Sierra 90 grain JHP and V-Crown. They are all more accurate than the pistol. At 950 fps they all expand to varying degrees and penetrate 10-13" of ballistic gel.

As for propellant choices there are many. I use 3.0 grains of Titegroup with the 95 grain cast bullets and it works very well, for appx 875-900 fps in the 2.75" barrel guns. I use 4.5 grains of Power Pistol for the JHP loads (below maximum according to Alliant), and get 940-980 fps out of those same barrels. Any small pistol primer works fine.

As for the LCP Max, best of luck with it. I had one, terrible trigger, shot very low and was inaccurate beyond 25 feet, also dropped magazines while firing. Returned to the factory for repair with no improvement. Went down the road. I had a client bring one with a later manufacture date, and it shot much closer to POA, but still wasn't anything in regards to accuracy, and also dropped mags.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the reloading information you provided. I will try and get my practice load velocities closer to the SD velocities around 1000fps. I will probably not do a lot of plinking, since these micro guns have their limitations. Most shooting will be SD drills, so velocities should be in the SD area at least.

I have the LCP Max Elite, and so far I have not had any magazine or trigger issues. I still need to post some target pictures, but for now it is shooting a little bit high for me, but the aiming dot was a bit small.

You indicate accuracy was not very good for the LCP Max. What accuracy are you looking for at 25ft, or beyond 25ft?

Regarding accuracy. The first time I shot the LCP Max, I had my son with me. He does not shoot a lot, but he is very accurate with my SIG's, but was all over the place with the LCP Max, where my grouping was much tighter. A micro gun is not that easy to shoot, but I have been comfortable with the LCP max since day one.
 
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vaalpens said:
I think we all do this sometimes. We buy a new gun just to be able to start reloading a new cartridge.

For me it is not just reloading a new cartridge, but also scratching and itch and filling a niche.

I have always wanted to reload 380 Auto and needed to fill me pocket carry need.

Yesterday I finally decided that it is time and I ordered a Ruger LCP Max Elite, 380 Auto.

I have not received the Ruger yet, but I definitely had to start preparing to create some reloads. Following are all the task and purchases I need to make for this new cartridge:
  • New pistol (ordered and on the way)
  • New dies (I have ordered the Lee 380 Auto 4 die set. $78. Not cheap anymore)
  • 380 Auto cases. I have just over a 150, should be good for now, but will need more.
  • Decapped the cases already and will need to send them through my cleaning process.
  • Probably will need new plastic containers (1 x range brass, 1 x ready for clean brass, 1 x ready for load brass)
  • I have some 115gr bullets, but will probably need some 80-95gr bullets for the 380 Auto
  • Load research
  • I have plenty different powders that should work in 380 Auto, so no need to buy any new powders
  • I have plenty primers, so no new primers will be needed
  • My load data spreadsheet will have to be updated to add the new cartridge
  • I have some printed case sorting pages, will need to create one for 380 Auto
  • Need to decide if I am going to buy any factory 380 Auto ammo, or just go with reloads.
  • I can probably use my 9mm reloading trays for now, but will probably need to get a couple for the 380 Auto
  • I also need to get an additional quick change turret for my Lee Classic Turret. (ordered for $14.89)
I would appreciate it if you can comment/share on which powders and bullet combinations work best for 380 Auto, especially for the Ruger LCP family.
Click to expand...
I have contemplated buying a 40 S&W and 380 ACP only because several people I shoot with use them and keep offering me brass!
 
I made a spur of the moment decision today and decided to try some Alliant BE-86 loads since the Alliant load data data seemed to be closer to the 900/1000fps range. It was still cold outside, 35F, but I made some time to also test the loads today. I also tested some 90gr V-Crown loads for comparison.

Following are the results from the testing. it seems I still need to work on accuracy and ES, even though I had some better numbers. The V-Crown rounds had a decent ES, but velocity is still low. I think I can trust my chrono, even though today I used it without the diffuser.

Based on the groupings I have seen so far, it seems that the expected range with the LCP Max is going to be around 1" to 1.5" for a better than normal accuracy.

380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 3.8gr, CCI500
Average: 817
ES: 87
SD: 31.8
Force: 141
PF: 77
Velocities: 774, 816, 830, 807, 861
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.69"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 842
ES: 44
SD: 17.7
Force: 150
PF: 79
Velocities: 837, 814, 847, 858, 855
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.25"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 867
ES: 28
SD: 11.2
Force: 159
PF: 82
Velocities: 869, 871, 883, 858, 855
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.15"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.1gr, CCI500
Average: 885
ES: 33
SD: 14.6
Force: 165
PF: 84
Velocities: 869, 900, 902, 882, 876
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.28"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 907
ES: 40
SD: 15.3
Force: 174
PF: 86
Velocities: 908, 917, 903, 924, 884
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.71"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.3gr, CCI500
Average: 931
ES: 62
SD: 22.6
Force: 183
PF: 88
Velocities: 896, 931, 932, 940, 958
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.93"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: SIG
COL: .947"
Sierra V-Crown, 90gr, JHP
Average: 851
ES: 29
SD: 11.6
Force: 145
PF: 76
Velocities: 863, 857, 834, 857, 845
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.8"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
 
I have been a bit slow in posting images of the targets. Following are a few of them. You will see I am still changing targets trying to find something that I feel comfortable with at 25ft with the LCP Max.

Load-1557-05_25ft.png
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, HP38, 2.9gr, CCI500
Average: 697
ES: 53
SD: 23
Force: 102
PF: 66
Velocities: 670, 723, 706, 676, 711
Grouping @ 25ft: 0.9"
Test Date: 11/27/2023
Load-1564-05_25ft.png
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: RP
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, CFEpistol, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 761
ES: 102
SD: 42.5
Force: 122
PF: 72
Velocities: 723, 777, 712, 779, 814
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.09"
Test Date: 11/27/2023


Load-1577-05_25ft.png
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 907
ES: 40
SD: 15.3
Force: 174
PF: 86
Velocities: 908, 917, 903, 924, 884
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.71"
Test Date: 11/30/2023


Load-1574-05_25ft.png
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 842
ES: 44
SD: 17.7
Force: 150
PF: 79
Velocities: 837, 814, 847, 858, 855
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.25"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
 
vaalpens said:
I made a spur of the moment decision today and decided to try some Alliant BE-86 loads since the Alliant load data data seemed to be closer to the 900/1000fps range. It was still cold outside, 35F, but I made some time to also test the loads today. I also tested some 90gr V-Crown loads for comparison.

Following are the results from the testing. it seems I still need to work on accuracy and ES, even though I had some better numbers. The V-Crown rounds had a decent ES, but velocity is still low. I think I can trust my chrono, even though today I used it without the diffuser.

Based on the groupings I have seen so far, it seems that the expected range with the LCP Max is going to be around 1" to 1.5" for a better than normal accuracy.

380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 3.8gr, CCI500
Average: 817
ES: 87
SD: 31.8
Force: 141
PF: 77
Velocities: 774, 816, 830, 807, 861
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.69"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 842
ES: 44
SD: 17.7
Force: 150
PF: 79
Velocities: 837, 814, 847, 858, 855
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.25"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 867
ES: 28
SD: 11.2
Force: 159
PF: 82
Velocities: 869, 871, 883, 858, 855
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.15"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.1gr, CCI500
Average: 885
ES: 33
SD: 14.6
Force: 165
PF: 84
Velocities: 869, 900, 902, 882, 876
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.28"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 907
ES: 40
SD: 15.3
Force: 174
PF: 86
Velocities: 908, 917, 903, 924, 884
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.71"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: WIN
COL: .970"
RMR, 95gr, FMJRN, BE86, 4.3gr, CCI500
Average: 931
ES: 62
SD: 22.6
Force: 183
PF: 88
Velocities: 896, 931, 932, 940, 958
Grouping @ 25ft: 2.93"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
380acp, LCP, 2.8"
Case: SIG
COL: .947"
Sierra V-Crown, 90gr, JHP
Average: 851
ES: 29
SD: 11.6
Force: 145
PF: 76
Velocities: 863, 857, 834, 857, 845
Grouping @ 25ft: 1.8"
Test Date: 11/30/2023
Click to expand...
I first bought BE-86 when Unique was sold out and a vendor recommended it as being similarly sort of a universal powder for pistol loads. I like it, though I won't toss Unique. It's my go to for 9mm and .380 now.
 
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