Starting to reload rifle brass

[mike240se]

Hello, I am about to start reloading rifle brass (.223rem) for the first time. I have experience loading handgun ammo in my lee classic turret press and single stage challenger press using lee dies and accessories. After reading the rifle reloading section in my lyman manual (i find it more helpful than my lee manual) I still have a few questions.

Do you guys normally load rifle ammo (.223) on your turret press with auto index? I was under the impression that you need to clean the lube off the case after resizing, this would make using the turret auto index difficult, but not impossible. I am using lee lube, which i remember reading is not damaging to primers like other lubes are because of its makeup. Lee goes on in their book saying how you should insist on lee lube for this reason.

Also, are the lee deluxe rifle dies carbide? I dont think they are, but just want to make sure. I bought the deluxe set and a factory crimp die, since it oddly didnt come with it. The other sets come with the factory crimp die but i wanted the collet die and the full size sizer die.

Can the factory crimp die be used to do a roll crimp on a cannelure? I am firing my ammo from a semi-auto bushmaster predator, which from what i have read, means i need to crimp. I dont get much of a roll crimp with my 38spl factory die, are factory dies only for taper crimping?

I also bought the rifle charging die, do you guys normally use this to charge the cases with the autodisk pro? I really enjoy charging cases in the turret press with the auto disk pro for handgun, it makes it so much easier and is extremely accurate. I would like to continue doing so if its not a problem.

I suppose I could lube the case ( i purchased the rcbs lube pad for this purpose) then resize/deprime it, then remove it from the press and clean off the lube and clean the primer pocket, then put it back in and charge the case, seat the bullet and then crimp. Is this a good way to go?

Also, i have read in one book that you should lube the inside of the case neck with a q tip or the like and have read in other books to never lube inside the case neck. which is correct for the lee dies? I suppose if the inside neck does not need to be lubed, i could resize/charge/seat all at once and clean it off afterwards, to avoid taking the brass out of the turret mid process. this would mean no primer pocket cleaning though.

Lastly, trimming.... I have the lee trimmer and lock stud and the case length gauge and shell holder, i was going to use my electric drill, i also have a caliper, do most of you measure it before cutting it before first reload or do you trim it regardless so they are all the same length? i assume even if they are within spec its best to trim so they are uniform for crimping although factory crimp it doesnt matter from what i read. i also have the lee dechamfer tool which said inside and outside but from what i can tell it only can deburr inside the case, it doesnt have an outer blade like the others do for trimming the outside. anyone use this tool and know how to outside deburr?

thanks for your help, i dont want to blow up my bushmaster and want to make sure i get the process right, i spent time making sure i reloaded the hangun ammo correctly and its rewarded me nicely with great ammo and no problems.

 

[Idano]

mike240se,

Welcome to the world of rifle reloading it is definitely more time consuming then straight wall pistol ammo. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can since I reload a lot of rifle and pistol on a progressive press.

Do you guys normally load rifle ammo (.223) on your turret press with auto index? I was under the impression that you need to clean the lube off the case after resizing, this would make using the turret auto index difficult, but not impossible. I am using lee lube, which i remember reading is not damaging to primers like other lubes are because of its makeup. Lee goes on in their book saying how you should insist on lee lube for this reason.

Yes and no; I resize all my rifle brass on my single stage which has a RCBS Case Kicker to help speed up the process. I don't like the lube on my case feeder and feeder tubes. Once everything is resized I clean the primer pockets and tumble the brass again to remove the lube. Also I recommend buying a RCBS X-Die for resizing because you only have to trim the brass the first time before you resize it with the X-Die and then never again. Also you don't need small base dies for a typical AR.

Also, are the lee deluxe rifle dies carbide? I don't think they are, but just want to make sure. I bought the deluxe set and a factory crimp die, since it oddly didn't come with it. The other sets come with the factory crimp die but i wanted the collet die and the full size sizer die.

Forget about carbide dies for rifle cartridges that's why you have to lube. Also, I strongly recommend the RCBS X-Die for full length resizing unless you love to trim brass. X-Dies will not allow the brass to stretch during resizing.

Can the factory crimp die be used to do a roll crimp on a cannelure? I am firing my ammo from a semi-auto bushmaster predator, which from what i have read, means i need to crimp. I don't get much of a roll crimp with my 38spl factory die, are factory dies only for taper crimping?

Yes it can but you do not need to crimp any 22 cal bullet because the neck tension is more then sufficient to keep the bullets in the magazine from moving during recoil. I never crimp any of my 22 cal bullets. If you doubt me try pulling a bullet with kinetic hammer if that doesn't convince you nothing will. Crimping only shortens the life of the cases and can affect your accuracy.

I can't help you with the rifle charging die since I don't use one or the Lee Auto Disk Pro.

Also, i have read in one book that you should lube the inside of the case neck with a q tip or the like and have read in other books to never lube inside the case neck. which is correct for the lee dies? I suppose if the inside neck does not need to be lubed, i could resize/charge/seat all at once and clean it off after wards, to avoid taking the brass out of the turret mid process. this would mean no primer pocket cleaning though.

I suppose that you should lube the neck of the case but I never have. I do however always clean my primer pockets and after this weekend of running across unswaged military cases that played holy hell with my progressive I am also going to purchase a Dillon Super Swage and start swaging every case from now on.

Lastly, trimming.... I have the lee trimmer and lock stud and the case length gauge and shell holder, i was going to use my electric drill, i also have a caliper, do most of you measure it before cutting it before first reload or do you trim it regardless so they are all the same length? i assume even if they are within spec its best to trim so they are uniform for crimping although factory crimp it doesn't matter from what i read. i also have the lee dechamfer tool which said inside and outside but from what i can tell it only can deburr inside the case, it doesn't have an outer blade like the others do for trimming the outside. anyone use this tool and know how to outside deburr?

If you will use the RCBS X-Die then you will only have to trim your brass only once, otherwise you will have to continually monitor and trim you brass probably after every 3-4 time of being reloaded. By the way I recommend getting the Possum Hollow Kwick Case Trimmer for $20 along with the Sinclair Deburring Tool Power Adapter for $14. The Power Adapter allows you to chuck it up in your drill or drill press. The Possum Hollow Kwick Case Trimmer uses the neck and shoulder datum to trim the case to length without any setup or measuring. Also the Power Adapter will accept the Deburring and Chamfering tool; I can process 1,000 rounds in just over an hour.

I hope this helps, if I wasn't clear or you have more questions let me know.

 

[mike240se]

Idano, thanks for the info. I am probably going to get the x-die even though i already bought the lee set. I was told by someone at the range that i shouldnt expect more than 3 or 4 reloads out of the .223 when being fired from a semi-auto AR. Is this true? if so the x-die isnt really worth it, is it?

Also, how does one trim exactly .020" off of the max length for the x-die? The lee cutter stuff doesnt really give you the option to set the exact trim length, it just does some arbitrary length. i assume the lee equipment i already bought is worthless with the x-dies too.

As far as the crimping thanks for the info, i didnt know one didnt need to crimp .223. unforunately all the bullets i bought (over 300) have cannelures. does this matter? do they need to be crimped because they have cannelures or can i just ignore them?

As far as inside neck brushing and lubing i found a cheap little frankford aresenal kit that brushes and lubes the inside neck with mica which is supposed to be safe to use and doesnt destroy powder or primers.

My biggest question is what in the world this "small base" means and if i definetly dont need it with bushmaster predator. i thought there is only 1 type of .223, i never heard of a small base but it appears i better know what i need before i buy rcbs cause they offer both.

thanks again.

 

[Idano]

mike240se,

So far I have reloaded some of my brass up to 10 time and most of it is still going strong. Occasionally I have to toss a case because the primer pocket gets enlarged over time and primer is loose, but so far I haven't had any split. I don't know why my cases are lasting longer then what others are claiming, my friend is seeing the same longevity from is AR cases and he shoots a lot more then me. It may be because of the X-Die or that I don't crimp.

I use the Possum Hollow Kwick Case Trimmer. Here is a link to a post I wrote tonight abut it: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3383473#post3383473

Don't worry about the bullets with cannelures I use them and ignore the cannelure.

I just recently learned about small based dies and what they do is resize the cases below the SAAMI minimums. The idea behind them is that it will aid feeding for autos, but I have never had an issue in an AR with resizing to SAAMI specification with the regular RCBS X-Die. By the way RCBS does make a small base X-Die but it will work your case more which will shorten it s' life in theory.

 

[mike240se]

hey, reloading rifle brass is going well. I did some amazing groups at 200 yards with my first reloads, the factory ammo i shot the same day was like triple the moa if not more.

my question is regarding cleaning the lube, it has become the biggest pain of reloading, it takes 3 times as long as putting the lube on and resizing. then i remember reading that i think someone said they actually retumble their brass in corn cob after resizing to clean the lube. is this an effective way to remove the lube? do you still need to wipe them by hand or does it completely remove the lube by itself? i assume the lee wax based lube i used once dry would come off easy in the tumbler but want to make sure.

also, strangely none of my .223 brass needed resizing after first fire, only 5.56 did.

 

[redneck2]

Cleaning the lube off is the easy and fast part. After your rounds are loaded, pull them out of the bin one at a time, wipe them off with a rag as you inspect them, then put them in the cartridge box and go shoot.

You're not cleaning off tar, it's just a little lube. I only lube maybe every 2nd or 3rd case. You don't need much. Put on a light coat. Next round use less, then less until you feel the case is a little tight in the die. If the case is too tight, pull it out and lube, then re-do it. Just don't force one that's too dry.

NOTE...I use a Dillon 550 but only load one round at a time. This is why I strongly prefer the manual index.

 

[ocabj]

My procedures for loading .223 brass (for Service Rifle HP):

1. Deprime and clean pockets with Dewey Crocogator tool.

2. Tumble brass.

3. Resize brass.

4. Tumble brass.

5. Trim/chamfer/debur with Giraud.

6. Poke primer flash holes and prime.

7. Load.

I tumble the 2nd time to clean the lube off before I trim/chamfer/debur with the Giraud. I used to resize, trim, chamfer, and debur, then retumble and prime.

The Giraud saves me a lot of time in brass prep.

 

[Idano]

mike240se,

I recommend tumbling them after you resize, but before you reload. You can use the same media, but the lube does load it up faster then just clean brass. I am currently experimenting with using the sand that is used in a sand blaster and tumbling them for only 5-10 minutes to clean off the lube but leave the case still shinny. By the way the sand appears to be cleaning the primer pockets and not getting wedged in the flash hole. So far I am pretty happy with it, I tell you more after I do a couple thousand rounds.

 

[mike240se]

thanks let us know.

yeah its a pain to wipe it off.

the good news, i got my lee auto disk pro working great charging my .223 rounds with varget. within .1gn always.