State authorities asking gun owners to allow guns to be test fired.

[harmonic]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080818_1__WELEE32641

Authorities test fire guns in girls' slayings

WELEETKA — More than three dozen guns from the Weleetka area were test fired over the weekend as authorities worked to narrow their leads into the June 8 slayings of two girls north of town.

Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, said some 60 letters were sent out to registered owners of .40-caliber handguns, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for testing on Saturday and Sunday at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah.

Brown said 40 of those owners showed up with their guns, which were fired outside the courthouse.

She said about five owners contacted the OSBI to say they no longer owned the weapons, although they did provide the names of the new owners.

“We’ll be checking on them,” Brown said, as well as the 15 or so registered gun owners who did not show up for the test firings.

The fact that the OSBI is looking for a .40-cailber handgun is the newest revelation into the murders of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.

Both were shot several times and left for dead on County Line Road, about four miles northeast of Weleetka.

Two guns were used in the killings, though authorities never would identify the caliber used until now.

Brown would not identify the other caliber of bullet which was used in the slayings.

 

[SCKimberFan]

Do they really think that someone who legally has the gun is responsible? I continue to be amazed by how stupid people can be.

I seriously doubt the perp in this case was on their list of "registered" owners.

 

[3pairs12]

Well since they sent otu a letter asking them to have there guns test fired volintarily test fired I hope it gives them a break in the case. I just don't see a murderer of 2 little girls showing up to the court house with gun in hand for test firing. On a side note a remember when somebody reported seeing some pickup driving down that road around the same time anything ever happen with that.

 

[Eric F]

Do they really think that someone who legally has the gun is responsible? I continue to be amazed by how stupid people can be.

well all bad guys were at one time good guys

The real question here is if you did it why would you turn your gun in?

 

[Duke Junior]

I seriously doubt the perp in this case was on their list of "registered" owners.

That's for sure.
And it's very disturbing that Oklahoma, which TMK,has no gun registration has got these records on file and is sending out these letters.
Am I missing something here,Oklahoma gun owners?

 

[WayneConrad]

The other real question is, if you didn't do it, why would you turn your gun in for testing? What have you got to gain?

If I went to my lawyer, and asked him if I should voluntarily submit to a police search, or ballistics test, or lie detector test or anything else, what do you think he would say?

 

[harmonic]

it's very disturbing that Oklahoma, which TMK,has no gun registration has got these records on file and is sending out these letters

They can determine the manufacturer of the gun used from the rifling, twist, lands, grooves, etc. Then they can contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer can give them the distributor's names. The distributor can give the police the names of the stores they sold to. The stores have the FFL forms and can supply those to the police.

 

[Duke Junior]

They can determine the manufacturer of the gun used from the rifling, twist, lands, grooves, etc. Then they can contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer can give them the distributor's names. The distributor can give the police the names of the stores they sold to. The stores have the FFL forms and can supply those to the police.

So in other words, we have de facto registration.
Thank you for that answer,harmonic.

 

[mugsie]

What am I missing here - ahhh - swapped out the barrel?! Yeah, my gun's cleared. Duh....

 

[SCKimberFan]

well all bad guys were at one time good guys

I disagree. There are some people who have been evil all their lives.

 

[SCKimberFan]

The other real question is, if you didn't do it, why would you turn your gun in for testing? What have you got to gain?

If I went to my lawyer, and asked him if I should voluntarily submit to a police search, or ballistics test, or lie detector test or anything else, what do you think he would say?

Uh, let me see...NO!

You as the registered owner have nothing to gain by this and everything to lose, especially if your gun is stolen and used in a crime, as they now have a casing and bullet to compare it against.

 

[SomeKid]

I might thank the government for sending me toilet paper, aside from that, I wouldn't volunteer my weaponry for some government buffoon to test fire it.

After all, what if the gun used was substantially similar to mine, and the government agent doing tests determines that the similarities are enough that suddenly I am suspect #1? Looks like a great case of everything to lose.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

You as the registered owner have nothing to gain by this and everything to lose, especially if your gun is stolen and used in a crime, as they now have a casing and bullet to compare it against.

Or worse ballistic testing isn't an exact science. Unlike on law & order or CSI they virtually never get identical rifling marks. What they are looking for is similarities. So if by pure blind luck your barrel has enough commonalities with the murder weapon guess where all of the investigation is now pointing.

Even if it didn't individually affect you the legal ramifications could affect entire gun community. Eventually some DA will try to get a judge to ask for a warrant for all XD .40 in a state. He will show that "voluntary" testing in previous cases helped to convict the killer. 99% chance the judge will deny the warrant. Given enough cases someday, sometime a judge will let it go. Now you have precedent.

Of course the next thing will be that it would make it much easier to enforce the warrant if there was up to date registration. So mandatory registration comes next.

This is a lose lose for the individuals and the gun owners as a whole. No way in help is the LEO testing my gun, my dna, searching my car, my house, or my shed without a warrant. I don't care if I didn't do it and am on live TV during the murder.

 

[3pairs12]

I bet some of you would be thinking anything to help in this situation if it were your small town. I don't want the government to know more about me or the guns I own than they already do, but this a very small town and the people that did volunteer their firearm are just helping to elminate possible suspects for the law enforcement to continue their investigation in another direction. This was a brutal slaying and anything helps sometimes.

 

[HIcarry]

“We’ll be checking on them,” Brown said, as well as the 15 or so registered gun owners who did not show up for the test firings.

So, if you didn't voluntarily submit your gun for test firing, they'll be "checking" on you shortly? For what purpose; to "convince" you to do so now that they're knocking on your door and askin' real politely? What happens next? Is not submitting to a voluntary test fire of your weapon sufficient grounds to issue a warrant to seize the gun for test firing?

Will this be the newest tool in solving gun crimes across the nation: Have everyone in the immediate area of the crime submit their guns for testing, voluntarily, or course, and if they don't get a warrant to seize the gun for testing anyways.

 

[Jaguar]

Here's a question.

What if you get the letter but don't go in for the voluntary testing? Are you then a suspect for failure to "help" them solve this crime?

 

[Soybomb]

What a total waste of time and money that sounds like. I'd also like to know how people who received the letters were selected past just going to local dealers and seeing who bought a .40 lately.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

as a resident of a 'small town' that was suspected in a murder that happened about 1/2 mile from my home (turned out a cop's brother did it) I would very strongly advise anyone faceing such a request to consult an out-of-town attorney before submitting to this test. knowing what I do now I certainly would not.

 

[SoCalShooter]

That in my opinion (paranoid) was a test to see if a voluntary gun confiscation was possible.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

I bet some of you would be thinking anything to help in this situation if it were your small town. I don't want the government to know more about me or the guns I own than they already do, but this a very small town and the people that did volunteer their firearm are just helping to elminate possible suspects for the law enforcement to continue their investigation in another direction. This was a brutal slaying and anything helps sometimes.

The slaying won't be changed by giving up our rights.

Would you agree with the following statements
LEO would catch more criminals if they didn't need warrants?
LEO would catch more criminals if they could be FORCED to testify against themselves?
LEO would catch more criminals if they were not given jury trials?

I think all of the above are 100% true. I don't want to live in that kind of a society no matter how low the crime rate.

Taken to the extreme if LEO collected DNA of EVERYONE in the country, all 300+ million people, every visitor or legal alien who enters the border, ever illegal who is caught, imagine how easy it would be to solve crime.

Collect all dna from crime scene. Maybe it is 20-30 people but most can be eliminated by time, opertunity, & motive. Conviction rate likely would be triple what it is now. Would you want to live in such a society?

Once said by a very smart man:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[Prophet]

How stupid do these people think criminals are? Do they really think that a murderer(s) who just shot and killed two girls is going to come in and get his murder weapon ballistically tested?

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that they're taking advantage of the emotionalism of the moment to infringe on every law-abiding citizens gun rights. It also seems that they are accusing every .40 owner of murder, and demanding that they come in and prove themselves innocent.

Its people like those who actually submitted to such a thing who are allowing our gun rights to be ceremoniously taken away.

I'd be very careful of submitting to such requests. The folks who do not allow themselves to be subjected to this will be the ones deemed suspicious and/or criminal. If the government receives compliance as a response, it could very well escalate from a "request" to "mandatory".

 

[BEARMAN]

Isn't the .40 caliber pistol , one of the most popular POLICE ISSUE handguns?

 

[Jdude]

Our friendly lawyers are not around, so if it is not to forward I shall stand in.

Ahem.

I do not consent to search.
Am I being detained?
I do not consent to search.
Am I free to go?
I do not consent to search.
Have a nice day, sir.

After you are 10 minutes away, you may say what you really meant to say in that colorful golf language.

-----

40 out of 60 showed? I think the letter may have been written a bit stronger than what the article suggests.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

what ever were they thinking! just because some one gunned down 2 kids these innocent folks were willing to allow the cops to narrow their search. how dare they! i bet some of em had kids and let a pathetic thing like that influence em. no wonder the revolution is flagging. be strong revolutionaries! someday folks will see how not cooperating in trying to find this shooter is for the greater good. it is up to visonaries such as yourselves to lead the way. vive le cause.

 

[Halo]

This isn't the first time I've heard of a "request" like this. So is this simply the latest law enforcement trend? Along with more beat cops in BDUs and combat boots? I really just do not like the implications of this at all. "Citizen, we 'request' that you report to the courthouse with your registered gun to prove that you aren't the murderer." And yes you can bet on the fact that somewhere some legislative assembly is trying to figure out a way to make this sort of thing mandatory.

Is this just backdoor ballistic fingerprinting? Capitalizing on a tragedy to build a database that cannot (yet) be done without consent? I'd love to hear their answer to what will be done with the data they collect once the investigation is over.

And yes, we absolutely do have de facto registration as this demonstrates. People get riled up, and rightly so, about registration schemes but the fact is we already have one. It isn't 100%, since guns can later change hands in private transactions, but I guess that's one of those "loopholes" we keep hearing about.