Steel Cased ammo bad in an AR? Pshaw.

[christcorp]

I agree and understand many different points of view here. But there seems to be 3 different "Positions" about steel ammo; and we're all trying to combine our positions and talk in the same conversation. That's not really possible.

3 positions:

1. I WON'T use Steel Case Ammo; why isn't important!!!
2. Steel case ammo causes problems in AR's and it's not worth using it!!!
3. Steel case ammo works fine in AR's, and it's used because it saves a lot of money.

That's 3 totally separate topics of discussions. Hard to handle all 3 combined into one. But; there are some facts that are associated with all three.

1. First position: Those opinions really aren't part of the discussion because they don't have any real reasons to not use/try steel ammo, other than they don't WANT to. That's fine; just that isn't a debatable position. Just go live life.

2. Second position: This needs to be treated like ALL AMMO! It isn't that STEEL AMMO gives AR's problems. It's that a certain brand ammo gives a certain INDIVIDUAL GUN problems. That can be said for ALL ammo. Every gun doesn't like Every ammo available. Shoot and find the ammo that works good in your gun. If it's steel or brass is not important.

3. Third position: For those who DO try steel ammo; whichever brand; and find that it works fine; then they are in a position to save a lot of money. Depending on how much they shoot. If you find that your AR can shoot some/all steel case ammo, then that opens up your options when Ammo starts getting scarce again some day; like when Obama bin laden entered office.

Those are 3 different topics, for 3 totally different discussions. The frustration can be seen when people in group #2 believe that what they have seen is universal to all steel case ammo in an AR. Or group #3 believing that because they haven't seen a problem, that it must be those with a problem not properly cleaning their weapons. Or group #1 who simply believe that because steel case ammo isn't made in America, that it's somehow evil and shouldn't be used. Fortunately, most people don't think that way. Anyway; if you can understand the 3 positions on this topic, it's easier to discuss with the appropriate opposing position.

 

[Justin]

3 positions:

1. I WON'T use Steel Case Ammo; why isn't important!!!
2. Steel case ammo causes problems in AR's and it's not worth using it!!!
3. Steel case ammo works fine in AR's, and it's used because it saves a lot of money.

Of course, you completely drive right past the point that I've been attempting to make during the course if this thread:

Some AR-pattern rifles choke on steel case ammo.
Some do not.
Some will shoot it with acceptable accuracy.
Some will not.

If your gun runs acceptably with steel cased ammo, and allows you to make hits, by all means, run it through your rifle.

If your gun chokes on the stuff, or shoots patterns rather than groups, skip the steel cased stuff and go with something else.

I fail to understand what's so hard to grasp about that.

 

[Chris95]

I understand you all are trying too answer the question but you left out one important point, old laquer coated cases like 7.62x54r milsurp WILL lock things up when that old stuff gets in the chamber its like glue. I don't know about the new stuff and I'm not pretending like I do but I have seen sticky bolt syndrome with Mosin Nagants on more than one range outing. In other words try too avoid the old laquered stuff but steel cases in general are a great deal considering savings.

 

[d2wing]

My AR had that problem, after upgrading my extractor and spring to BCM, and changing to a H2 buffer, my AR will now shoot anything just fine. If your rifle won't extract the first place to look is at the extractor spring. My was rifle spec. Carbines have a different color insert. The insert isn't important but the spring is. Also many guys add an O-ring or defender D ring over the extractor spring as well.

 

[christcorp]

Of course, you completely drive right past the point that I've been attempting to make during the course if this thread:

Some AR-pattern rifles choke on steel case ammo.
Some do not.
Some will shoot it with acceptable accuracy.
Some will not.

If your gun runs acceptably with steel cased ammo, and allows you to make hits, by all means, run it through your rifle.

If your gun chokes on the stuff, or shoots patterns rather than groups, skip the steel cased stuff and go with something else.

I fail to understand what's so hard to grasp about that.

Justin; I didn't pass by it at all. After I listed the 3 points of view, I elaborated on their meanings. Look at #2.

2. Second position: This needs to be treated like ALL AMMO! It isn't that STEEL AMMO gives AR's problems. It's that a certain brand ammo gives a certain INDIVIDUAL GUN problems. That can be said for ALL ammo. Every gun doesn't like Every ammo available. Shoot and find the ammo that works good in your gun. If it's steel or brass is not important.

 

[christcorp]

I understand you all are trying too answer the question but you left out one important point, old laquer coated cases like 7.62x54r milsurp WILL lock things up when that old stuff gets in the chamber its like glue. I don't know about the new stuff and I'm not pretending like I do but I have seen sticky bolt syndrome with Mosin Nagants on more than one range outing. In other words try too avoid the old laquered stuff but steel cases in general are a great deal considering savings.

Chris: We aren't overlooking anything. The TITLE OF THIS THREAD is:

Steel Cased ammo bad in an AR? Pshaw.

We're talking about AR-15 and that format. Not about Mosins, AK's, or anything else. Just AR's.

 

[chrome_austex]

My AR has trouble (doublefeeds) with steel case stuff when firing fast (IDPA Carbine match). no round in the chamber, but two trying to go in. Happened this weekend on a very well cleaned and lubricated gun. Happened at the last carbine match where I tried to use steel case ammo. Thats 2/2 malfunctions at carbine events with steel stuff for me and none in the same time with a much larger volume of brass ammo.

I wish I new what the sequence of operations is that causes that kind of doublefeed. I suspect the PMag, or my gas system, or the steel stuff, or a combination. I can't reproduce it at the bench by manually operating the bolt to cycle steel rounds out of the mag.

I've never had a problem with any brass ammo in the same circumstances, so the steel stuff is a contributing factor somehow.

MY gun doesn't like the stuff! I'd like to fix it if I can figure out precisely why.

 

[Waywatcher]

Isn't anyone else going to call BS on this one?

It rendered my SKS's firing pin bent & scorched and put one heck of a dent in the retaining pin. The firing pin no longer moved back and forth.

To Wolf's credit, they covered the cost of repair and refunded (pro-rated) the ammunition left of the 1000 round lot I bought.

Yes, this really happened to me.

 

[walter34payton2002]

I don't know guys.......To me its like buying a Mercedes Benz and then rationalizing why you put 89 octane in it. Yeah the car will automatically retard the timing and has good knock sensors and ect, but will reduce performance greatly and wasn't built to run it.

Here is my deal.....Yeah you can justify all the savings so you can buy a new AR over time or whatnot, but why are you going to insist on shooting stuff you know is not reliable enough to be used to defend your life? With the AR design flaw of crapping where it eats, so to speak, with the steel cased stuff you are just adding to its weakness. The stuff is dirty, not as accurate, does wear things more than brass (I get the argument against this), and no one here would bet their life on the stuff. If that is the case why don't we all buy NcStar optics instead of eotechs and with all the savings we can eventually buy new rifles. If the chicom crap fails then we can just replace it cause we only spent 40 bucks on it, right gang? Nah, no thanks. I practice with what I will use for defense and what will run the weapon system best.

 

[Fuego]

I have never had a problem with steel cased ammo in any gun. I even reload boxer primed steel cases, and they shoot just fine.

Clean your rifle when you get back from the range, like the old Gunny says. Cleaning your rifle is the last part of a day's shooting.

The cleaner your rifle, the more reliable it is. This "3000 rounds without cleaning" nonsense is just an accident waiting to happen.

Keep your rifle clean. That chamber brush is there for a reason. It is not a decoration.

Common sense goes a long way.

 

[Davek1977]

but why are you going to insist on shooting stuff you know is not reliable enough to be used to defend your life?

Because, quite simply, some people prefer to shoot 4 dollar a box ammo while plinking rather than ammo running twice that on average. When I'm going Rambo on a row of soda cans, the fact the ammo isn't brass cased, mil spec Lake City or Horandy TAP doesn't matter to me. Even among those who shoot a lot of steel case ammo, most probably don't have it loaded in their home defense weapons. I see no problem with doubling one's potential range time using steel cased ammo, provided it works in your weapon, however. Too, consider not "everyone" who owns an AR is even remotely concerned with using it to defend their lives. There are a LOT of recreational AR users out there too, and if buying steel cased ammo allows them to enjoy their hobby longer or more often, so be it.

 

[christcorp]

I don't know guys.......To me its like buying a Mercedes Benz and then rationalizing why you put 89 octane in it. Yeah the car will automatically retard the timing and has good knock sensors and ect, but will reduce performance greatly and wasn't built to run it.

Here is my deal.....Yeah you can justify all the savings so you can buy a new AR over time or whatnot, but why are you going to insist on shooting stuff you know is not reliable enough to be used to defend your life? With the AR design flaw of crapping where it eats, so to speak, with the steel cased stuff you are just adding to its weakness. The stuff is dirty, not as accurate, does wear things more than brass (I get the argument against this), and no one here would bet their life on the stuff. If that is the case why don't we all buy NcStar optics instead of eotechs and with all the savings we can eventually buy new rifles. If the chicom crap fails then we can just replace it cause we only spent 40 bucks on it, right gang? Nah, no thanks. I practice with what I will use for defense and what will run the weapon system best.

The main argument behind shooting steel case, is that what you're saying simply isn't true in many/most cases. You're saying the AR wasn't built to shoot steel case ammo. Who says? The AR is perfectly capable of shooting steel case ammo. Who says that steel case ammo is not reliable? You? Many people will differ with you. I would venture to say that MORE AR's shoot steel ammo reliably than those that have trouble with it. You say that the steel ammo wears things more than brass? This is totally false. The metal in the weapon is stronger metal then that of the thin cheap steel case ammo. Metalurgically; the steel case ammo isn't doing any damage to the steel in the gun. And as far as betting your life with it; that's simply a Non-Argument. Don't even know why you'd bring that up. 1) It is very unlikely that your AR is going to be used as a self defense weapon in most cases. If home defense is needed; a pistol is more likely going to be used. 2) Even if the AR was your home defense weapon, practice ammo and defense ammo are two different things. I don't practice and plink with my Sig Sauer P220 using Golden Sabers or Hydra-shoks. I don't practice with my carry pistol using critical defense ammo or similar. I practice and plink with cheap ammo. Unless you tell me that you ONLY practice with the tactical type ammo that you intend to protect your life with; your argument is totally without merit.

Sorry; but your entire post is quite silly. There is no truth or logic to it. The truth is, every weapon made, has the potential to not like certain ammo. Steel case or brass is totally irrelevant. There's certain brass ammo that my my gun might or might not like. If your AR doesn't mind shooting a particular brand steel case ammo, then there is absolutely no reason in the world not to use it for plinking. Not using it, if it's capable of using it, is your way of justifying and rationalizing.

It's quite simple. For plinking/practicing, the smart shooter will find the cheapest ammo that their gun can reliably shoot. This allows him/her to afford to shoot more ammo and more often. Maybe that cheapest ammo your weapon can shoot is steel case ammo. Maybe it's brass. If your weapon can shoot steel case ammo, then it's not going to hurt your weapon at all. If you think the steel in your gun is WEAKER than the steel the ammo cases are made of; then you know very little about guns. And even less about physics. Sorry; but not one comment in your post is accurate. And you definitely fall into the 1st category of individuals that I mentioned in my earlier post. You aren't going to shoot steel case ammo. Why isn't important. You don't have any real reasons. All of your opinions are personal and not based on any proof or data. You simply aren't going to shoot steel case ammo. And that's cool. This is America. You can shoot whatever you want. And while it would be wrong for anyone to tell you that you should shoot steel case ammo; it's just as wrong for you to tell others they shouldn't. Especially when not one thing you say about steel case ammo and an AR is correct.

 

[Justin]

Justin; I didn't pass by it at all. After I listed the 3 points of view, I elaborated on their meanings. Look at #2.

That'll teach me to skim posts. My apologies. Point well made.

 

[walter34payton2002]

Well, Christcorp, you threw a lot on the table there. You make a fine argument, but let me clarify exactly what I am saying so I don't need to say it again or be attacked personally. My knowledge of guns is just fine, thank you, and I don't need to review my resume with you. However, Why I feel it isn't reliable- I FEEL like, and you can correct me I am certain, that the AR has a design flaw in that it "craps where it eats" (direct impingement). If you are firing any ammo that is dirtier, contributing to the problem, then you are only maxmizing a chance of failure. Whether or not this is an issue to you is another story, maybe it isn't. Now you say that you don't practice with what you plink with. Fine, but I would imagine that that is contrary to your argument of any gun may not like any ammo. I highly recommend that you get out there and shoot the ammo you plan to use for defense, in case you are right and it don't like your defense ammo. Now steel case, in my experience, has not been as accurate as brass that I have fired (not from AR). I would not want to use something inaccurate to plink with or something that dirty just for the extra crap in cleaning alone. Now as far as metals, I fashion myself as a shadetree machanic. I am pretty decent. The softer metal with wear when in contact with the harder one. Pretty simple stuff when working on cams and dist. gears and stuff. Steel on steel will wear the gun steel more than brass. How much more I don't know I admit, maybe not enough to even notice.

Now I did not come to this forum to be attacked personally. If that's how you roll then that's cool, like you say this is America and I can leave. Let me know dude if I have an opinion that you are going to get personal without getting to know who I am here and I'll find another forum. Thanks for the response man. Just my opinion, maybe someone here agrees. I have to admit, you got me considering steel where before I never would have.

 

[Kwanger]

I don't know guys.......To me its like buying a Mercedes Benz and then rationalizing why you put 89 octane in it. Yeah the car will automatically retard the timing and has good knock sensors and ect, but will reduce performance greatly and wasn't built to run it.

Here is my deal.....Yeah you can justify all the savings so you can buy a new AR over time or whatnot, but why are you going to insist on shooting stuff you know is not reliable enough to be used to defend your life? With the AR design flaw of crapping where it eats, so to speak, with the steel cased stuff you are just adding to its weakness. The stuff is dirty, not as accurate, does wear things more than brass (I get the argument against this), and no one here would bet their life on the stuff. If that is the case why don't we all buy NcStar optics instead of eotechs and with all the savings we can eventually buy new rifles. If the chicom crap fails then we can just replace it cause we only spent 40 bucks on it, right gang? Nah, no thanks. I practice with what I will use for defense and what will run the weapon system best.

I find your argument is a bit of a 'chicken and the egg' scenario. Who will be more capable of defending themselves - the guy who get tons of quality training and trigger time in using affordable steel cased ammo - or the guy who insists on using only the $1 a round Home Defense premo ammo....and can barely afford to practice? (Not aiming any such suggestion at you, btw...just making a comparison at 2 Joe Average guys, all else being equal).

I think it has already been pointed out that quite a lot of people use steel for training and something else for critical defensive purposes. There is also another view that could be taken on that....which is, if whatever crazy nightmare situation popped up where you needed to rely on an AR for personal protection for an extended period, wouldn't it be nice to know your gun will run with any old ammo you can get your hands on?

Regarding your mentioned "design flaw" of the AR - check Fuego's post #60 above - if you maintain that mindset, the "flaw" becomes irrelevant.

 

[raz-0]

Well, Christcorp, you threw a lot on the table there. You make a fine argument, but let me clarify exactly what I am saying so I don't need to say it again or be attacked personally. My knowledge of guns is just fine, thank you, and I don't need to review my resume with you. However, Why I feel it isn't reliable- I FEEL like, and you can correct me I am certain, that the AR has a design flaw in that it "craps where it eats" (direct impingement). If you are firing any ammo that is dirtier, contributing to the problem, then you are only maxmizing a chance of failure. Whether or not this is an issue to you is another story, maybe it isn't. Now you say that you don't practice with what you plink with. Fine, but I would imagine that that is contrary to your argument of any gun may not like any ammo. I highly recommend that you get out there and shoot the ammo you plan to use for defense, in case you are right and it don't like your defense ammo. Now steel case, in my experience, has not been as accurate as brass that I have fired (not from AR). I would not want to use something inaccurate to plink with or something that dirty just for the extra crap in cleaning alone. Now as far as metals, I fashion myself as a shadetree machanic. I am pretty decent. The softer metal with wear when in contact with the harder one. Pretty simple stuff when working on cams and dist. gears and stuff. Steel on steel will wear the gun steel more than brass. How much more I don't know I admit, maybe not enough to even notice.

Now I did not come to this forum to be attacked personally. If that's how you roll then that's cool, like you say this is America and I can leave. Let me know dude if I have an opinion that you are going to get personal without getting to know who I am here and I'll find another forum. Thanks for the response man. Just my opinion, maybe someone here agrees. I have to admit, you got me considering steel where before I never would have.

Who says steel case ammo is dirtier? As far as I can tell it is not. At least .223 wolf/tula/herter's which all seem to be the same. Dirtier regarding direct impingement is a matter of powder choice, not case material. Chamber fouling will be a matter of the case material. If it causes problems is a matter of the gun itself.

I build mine with 5.56 chrome lined chambers. I have had no problems going 1200 rounds of wolf without cleaning. Heck, the BCM filthy 14 is past 40,000 rounds with a single cleaning at 26k rounds and change.

You can read up on it if you want. http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

As for accurate, xm193 is specced to 4 moa. Wolf comes in about the same or better. You can get lots that may perform as well as 2moa when averaged over the lot for both, but don't count on it. Both are among the most consistent on the chrono of all the brands I have tried, wolf is just a bit slower. Faster than most commercial ammo though. Accuracy isn't quite as consistent since they moved back to bi-metal projectiles, but it's usually good enough at 100 yards and under.

AS fro softer metals, you may very well find that the steel in wolf ammo is actually softer than some brass. It really depends on the brass allow in question. There was some surplus indian 5.56 out there that was awesomely better because it was brass. Nice, soft brass. You could rip the case rim off of every round fired.

Truly superb ammo since it was brass cased and all.

When brass cased ammo was super cheap, steel cased ammo had to cut every corner to be a bargain. QC sucked. Companies like wolf have decided to give a crap in order to make money. What you get is pretty darn consistent, and of reasonable quality ammo built to a budget price point.

To get ammo that shoots better out of my gun, I have to shoot stuff that costs at LEAST 3.5x more, or I have to reload. Most of the cheap brass cased stuff just isn't that much better.

People assume the steel cased stuff is less accurate. It may or may not be. If you aren't dropping less than a buck a round on it, odds are it probably shoots in the same neighborhood. Maybe a bit better.

People assume it is dirtier. The only way to tell is to shoot brand A, clean, brand B, clean, etc. Even then, if brand Q changes it's powder then you may have dirty brand Q ammo when it was clean.

Some say it wears parts faster... prove it. You really can't.

QC definitely USED to suck more. It doesn't any more with certain brands.
It definitely IS cheaper.

 

[walter34payton2002]

Kwanger that's definitely a good point- knowing it can run steel if need be. Didn't think of that. Just sayin though the Eastern Bloc guns were built to shoot it because mainly the tolerances are very loose, they are very simple, and design reasons such as the piston in AK's for example. I know AR's to be much tighter and unforgiving and yes I read the post about the crap being sprayed into the action being a myth, but the gasses just do get shot right into the action as opposed to a piston. I love the AR, but I try to be as realistic as possible about what it is in my opinion. If you guys have succeeded in proving me wrong here then everyone can now learn that what I'm saying as all myth, but there are a hell of a lot of guys out there and some that taught me a lot and that's also what they believe too. Maybe I learned it all wrong and am not seein it right. I ain't always right!!!

 

[christcorp]

Walter: 1st; let me say that anything I said in response to your post, was not personal. We don't even know each other. It can't be personal. A tint of frustration may have appeared in my response, but it wasn't meant to be personal. Just in disagreement to the actual post. For all I know, you and I could have a great time burning ammo and drinking beer and become great friends. In other words; please don't take anything I say personally. It's NEVER meant that way.

I think Raz and Kwanger responded pretty accurately, so I don't need to respond to all of that. I will say that I don't consider steel case ammo to be "Significantly" much dirtier or much less accurate. It's just not my experience. Of course, each brand is different. As are different weight bullets. I.e. Shooting a 72 grain bullet in a 1:10 barrel is going to be less accurate most times than through a 1:7 twist barrel. I also find Tula ammo to be less accurate than wolf; but I find Silver Bear to be more accurate than both. But I believe that each and every gun is different in it's relationship with ammo. The whole accuracy argument can be made with YOUR or MY particular gun using PMC bronze vs Corbon vs Winchester vs Blackhills. For me; I am not into competition shooting. If I can hit a softball size circle at 100 yards with open sites or non-mag red-dot type sight, then I am totally happy. I don't use magnified sights on ANY of my tactical type weapons.

As for practicing with what I plink with; you took that a little out of context. I try various ammo with ALL my new guns. I.e. With my new SigSauer, I try golden saber, hydra-shok, corbon, buffalo bore, etc... I find the most accurate and reliable that it will shoot, and that's my personal defense ammo. I "May" shoot a single magazine of the "Defense ammo" through it a couple times a year to simply reassure myself of it's accuracy and reliability. "Most times it's because I like seeing the results of a Hollow Point in wet phone books, gelatin, or an old piece of pork/beef I got from the butcher." Basically, it's just fun. But for plinking/practicing, I try/test the "Cheapest" ammo I can find that will reliably fire through the pistol. If the accuracy isn't as good as the "Defense Ammo"; I don't care. If I have a single failure to feed/fire/eject once every 200-300 rounds; I still don't care. I do the same thing with my rifles, tactical, hunting, etc... I test the different ammo that I intend to use for defensive/hunting purposes and that's what I use for that. For plinking; again, I test all the cheap stuff to find one that will reliably work and is cheap to use.

Hope this explains it more accurately. I believe that a person should try multiple brands/types of ammo in their guns. ESPECIALLY hand guns that will be used for defensive purposes. Not every Sig P220 is going to react identically to each brand of ammo. Neither will every make, model, style, etc... of ANY WEAPON. Each weapon is unique and will perform differently with each ammo and your style of shooting. If you can shoot $4 per box ammo in your gun reliably, then have fun with it. If you can't, find another brand and try it. Maybe NONE of the steel works for you. Then again, you can't guarantee that ALL BRASS WILL work. But again; we will have to disagree that steel case ammo is significantly dirtier or less accurate. That's just no my experience over the last 35 years of shooting and teaching.

 

[1KPerDay]

I had the chance to run a few mags of Tula .223 through my Colt SP-1 and Mini-14 Ranch last week... and was pleasantly surprised to find that it ran flawlessly in both. And I and 3 others were able to bang the 200-yd silhouette with ease through the scoped mini, and I did pretty well with open sights on the AR with it.

Stupid question... generally speaking, if I buy a spare AR bolt, will it drop in to my Colt? Are they generally interchangeable on ARs? No headspace problems? Does Colt use anything different as far as bolts/extractors? Are there different types of bolts like there are different types of lowers/pin sizes/etc?

I think if so I might buy a replacement bolt and use that if I plan to shoot steel again.

Or I might save the Tula for the Mini... it seems to like it.

 

[christcorp]

Yes, you can buy another bolt and just drop it in. But because of wear patterns on the bolt, I wouldn't swap bolts based on ammo. Bolts are wearable items. Normal use, they last in the 5,000-8,000 round range. The bolt carrier gets much less wear and will usually outlast a number of bolts. But I wouldn't swap the bolts in and out based on ammo. I would simply have a spare bolt on hand. I have 3 AR platforms, and keep an extra bolt on hand. A lot of things can happen. Even NON-STEEL Case related. I would simply keep the bolt that's in there and shoot whatever ammo. If the time ever comes that you need a new bolt, you'll have one. Both don't swap them around.

Also; for a couple dollars; pick up an extra firing pin. That's the one part that could break and leave you stranded. You can get a standard firing pin for $5.95 from MidwayUSA, or $9.95 from Brownells. Or, you could buy into the HYPE and buy a titanium firing pin for $34.95. (Don't buy into the hype).

Anyway; I think it's good to have these two items on hand no matter what. $40-$50 and a firing pin for $5-$10.

 

[walter34payton2002]

Cool, Christcorp. I get it. I am really considering giving steel a go. I think I have been getting a hell of a deal on great stuff like LC on sportsmansguide.com. I think my wife just paid 100 for 300 LC on strippers. But, damn, if I just could get past the stuff I learned all my life about steel case and AR's I can buy a ****load of ammo. By the way, I run steel cased all day in my Makarovs just didn't think it was appropriate for my AR, but you got me thinking.

 

[christcorp]

I shoot steel in my CZ-82. I also shoot steel in my FEG AP-MBP (32acp version of the PA-64). I also shoot steel in my 9mm Springfield. But my SigSauer P220 45acp, just doesn't seem to like it. It extracts and ejects fine, but it doesn't feed and chamber properly. I also shoot steel case in my .308 bolt remington as well as my semi-auto FAL. On the other hand, steel doesn't do well in my 30-06 savage bolt rifle, but shoots good in my M1 Garand. "I have a schuster plug for the garand".

I could however tell you stories of my Walther PPK that WON'T shoot or even chamber Corbon. Or how my AMT 380 will ONLY shoot Round Nose ammo and can't chamber ANY hollow points. (Thank God for Powerball and critical defense ammo). Or my Springfield 1911A1 that only reliably feed jacketed ammo.

As has been said many different ways by many different people. You need to try it yourself. And if one brand of steel doesn't work too well, try a different one. Just like you would do with brass ammo. And because steel doesn't expand and seal as well as brass, just remember to clean the chamber more often. And don't run brass after steel, until you have cleaned the chamber.

 

[FMJMIKE]

Spikes Tactical told me it was fine to shoot steel case ammo in my Spikes middy..............

 

[christcorp]

My S&W M&P owner's manual doesn't say anything about steel case ammo. It mentions the typical cautions about reloads and SAAMI standards. I did call S&W about it. Their only reply was: "If the ammo MEETS SAAMI standards, it's safe to shoot".

So, I guess the question is: Does most of the steel case ammo meet SAAMI specs. The answer to that is basically YES all around. While not scientific; I have found if you look at the ammo specs, none of the bear, wolf, MFS, Tula, etc... is of any faster velocities per bullet weight, than comparable brass loaded. I.e. The HIGHEST velocity 55 grain steel ammo I can find, is approximately 3200 fps. That is very common velocities for .223 brass ammo in general. Much of the steel case ammo is closer to the 3050 fps range. of course velocity and bullet weight isn't the same as saami pressures, but it's a pretty close indicator.

But what's most important, is that S&W didn't say I wasn't allowed to shoot steel case; or even that they frowned upon it. Simply that if the ammo meets SAAMI specs, they are happy with it.

 

[Trent]

My AR has trouble (doublefeeds) with steel case stuff when firing fast (IDPA Carbine match). no round in the chamber, but two trying to go in. Happened this weekend on a very well cleaned and lubricated gun. Happened at the last carbine match where I tried to use steel case ammo. Thats 2/2 malfunctions at carbine events with steel stuff for me and none in the same time with a much larger volume of brass ammo.

I wish I new what the sequence of operations is that causes that kind of doublefeed. I suspect the PMag, or my gas system, or the steel stuff, or a combination. I can't reproduce it at the bench by manually operating the bolt to cycle steel rounds out of the mag.

I've never had a problem with any brass ammo in the same circumstances, so the steel stuff is a contributing factor somehow.

MY gun doesn't like the stuff! I'd like to fix it if I can figure out precisely why.

Doublefeeds that occur on the forward motion of the bolt assembly are almost exclusively the domain of worn/damaged magazines - either lips, followers, or spring. Brass and steel casings will have different friction - so you may notice the problem more with one type of ammo and less with another. Weak magazine springs will have less "retention pressure" on the rounds at the top. Worn lips can allow the second round to scoot forward out of the mag and jam things up. Bad / worn followers can tilt and allow two rounds to jam up.

Get a couple of brand new, spec magazine and see if it continues. I say a couple, because I've had various brands of new factory magazines that had flaws right out of the bag. Some could be fixed (burrs on the lips, etc), some couldn't.. I keep a paint pen in my bag to mark magazines that have feed problems with a big red X on the side; they go in to the spare part box...