jae011
Member
is it really that harmful to put through your firearm? how much of it would you have to shoot to show any significant wear?
steel cased ammo....
- Thread starter jae011
- Start date
- Status
kk0g
Member
No.
fletcher
Member
Several threads have been made about this, typically concerning Wolf. The steel cased ammunition is slightly harder than brass, but still soft compared to your extractor and other components. It should not cause a noticeable amount of wear over brass.
00 Buckshot
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 20
I had a problem with steel cased rounds in my AR-15 years ago: Failure to extract empty cases from the chamber. I had to use a cleaning rod to force the empty cases out. This happened multiple times. 
I don't know exactly what caused the problem but I only using brass now. No more steel cased ammo for me!
I don't know exactly what caused the problem but I only using brass now. No more steel cased ammo for me!
W.E.G.
Member
You can try some of that stuff in your rifle if you want.
I recommend that you load three mags each with 20 rounds.
Fire the first mag quickly without pausing.
If the gun has not choked by the end of the first mag, quickly insert the second mag.
Quickly fire 10 rounds from the second mag.
Cease fire.
Wait one minute try to fire the next shot (shot #11 second mag).
If the gun has not choked yet, fire four more shots.
Cease fire.
Wait one minute, and fire the remaining rounds in the mag.
Quickly insert the final mag, and fire all 20 rounds in rapid succession.
If the gun has not choked by the end of the third mag, you may conclude that your rifle *probably* tolerates steel-case ammo.
Otherwise, remember to bring a stiff cleaning rod to the range to bang the stuck cases from the chamber, and remember the stuck cases will be HOT.
The cleaning rod will also become extremely hot after two insertions in a hot bore.
I recommend that you load three mags each with 20 rounds.
Fire the first mag quickly without pausing.
If the gun has not choked by the end of the first mag, quickly insert the second mag.
Quickly fire 10 rounds from the second mag.
Cease fire.
Wait one minute try to fire the next shot (shot #11 second mag).
If the gun has not choked yet, fire four more shots.
Cease fire.
Wait one minute, and fire the remaining rounds in the mag.
Quickly insert the final mag, and fire all 20 rounds in rapid succession.
If the gun has not choked by the end of the third mag, you may conclude that your rifle *probably* tolerates steel-case ammo.
Otherwise, remember to bring a stiff cleaning rod to the range to bang the stuck cases from the chamber, and remember the stuck cases will be HOT.
The cleaning rod will also become extremely hot after two insertions in a hot bore.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Been shooting steel cased ammo in just about every rifle I own.
G3, FAL, M14, AR15, AK. Never had a single problem with any of it.
My "testing" if you want to call it that pretty much mirrors what WEG describes. Have yet to see any problems.
G3, FAL, M14, AR15, AK. Never had a single problem with any of it.
My "testing" if you want to call it that pretty much mirrors what WEG describes. Have yet to see any problems.
GTR done
Member
Had some surplus Greek 5.56 brass cased jam in two different AR's.
We had to stomp down on the charging handle to open the bolt after firing. Oh, do not try this at home. So it can happen with brass also.
By the way, I can offer a great deal on some European NATO surplus 62 grain ammo. I have had it around for years now & haven't shot it up yet...
I have seen steel case ammo stick in two Keltec's, but I think that was from improper lubrication more than anything.
Try Hornady training ammo. Steel case, but Hornady bullets and powder. 150 rounds, no problem.
We had to stomp down on the charging handle to open the bolt after firing. Oh, do not try this at home.
So it can happen with brass also.By the way, I can offer a great deal on some European NATO surplus 62 grain ammo. I have had it around for years now & haven't shot it up yet...
I have seen steel case ammo stick in two Keltec's, but I think that was from improper lubrication more than anything.
Try Hornady training ammo. Steel case, but Hornady bullets and powder. 150 rounds, no problem.
brnmuenchow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2011
- Messages
- 612
Personally no, however I have ran into family members and friends that have had issues with some mini-14's, AR's, and tight toleranced pistols. I do believe it would take several thousand's of rounds to make any issues. No problem with most Warsaw com. block guns like SKS, AK's, Mosin Nagants, TT-series pistols, etc... they have looser tolerances.
tyeo098
Member
Why dont you just use inertia to unlock the bolt?Had some surplus Greek 5.56 brass cased jam in two different AR's.
We had to stomp down on the charging handle to open the bolt after firing. Oh, do not try this at home.
Get a piece of 2x4 (to protect the buttstock) and place it on the ground, pull on the charging handle while slamming the butt on the 2x4.
The inertia of the BCG and your force on the charging handle will unlock the bolt and eject the round.
Ive done this like a million times with my Wolf-intolerant AR, and an unhappily bought case of Wolf
ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,474
My duty AR eats Wolf just fine.
USAF_Vet
Member
I have steel cased TulAmmo in 9mm. Hopefully I'll get to report its use after this weekend. I've had steel caed ammo for my Mosin-Nagants and only had one jam in my M-44, and that was due to a split shoulder on the case.
No they don't. Stop repeating crap you read on message boards, especially when you clearly have no idea what it means. Look up tolerances and read a little bit about machine design.
As for steel cases, there is nothing wrong with them. They are cheap and go bang. Usually the ammo is not very high quality and sometimes is a little slower than other factory loads. The lower case expansion (when compares to brass) can allow for a build up of residue from powder combustion (sometimes causing stuck cases), but this can easily be cleaned out with a chamber brush.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
Seems to be more of an AR problem than anything else. My AK based rifles have 0 problems.
chevyman097
Member
My AK eats steel for breakfast, lunch, and dinner....and some times for snacks.
brnmuenchow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2011
- Messages
- 612
Ithaca37
Ithaca37 clearly you are one of the very few that believe every gun manufacturers has the same machining techniques, tolerances, and materials(they are not). No I am not getting my info off message boards, I happen to have real world experience with firearms. I give information that pertains to my own, and others around experiences. These forums should not be for those apparently like you who can't deal with the reality that others may have different experiences, expertise, and opinions (or facts) that pertain to them. If you can't handle the fact that common knowledge knows that an AK series rifle has different contruction and operation system from and in most cases well built rifle like an AR than I think instead of criticizing peoples posts than mabye start listening to people and or historical and proven fact.( This is not a debate on how much more you think you know than everyone else.) I happen to have been around firearms that DO NOT like steel cased ammo and most of them are the non-com.block firearms PERIOD!
Ithaca37 clearly you are one of the very few that believe every gun manufacturers has the same machining techniques, tolerances, and materials(they are not). No I am not getting my info off message boards, I happen to have real world experience with firearms. I give information that pertains to my own, and others around experiences. These forums should not be for those apparently like you who can't deal with the reality that others may have different experiences, expertise, and opinions (or facts) that pertain to them. If you can't handle the fact that common knowledge knows that an AK series rifle has different contruction and operation system from and in most cases well built rifle like an AR than I think instead of criticizing peoples posts than mabye start listening to people and or historical and proven fact.( This is not a debate on how much more you think you know than everyone else.) I happen to have been around firearms that DO NOT like steel cased ammo and most of them are the non-com.block firearms PERIOD!
I've never had an issue with steel cased ammo, including about 1k rounds through the AR so far.
My statement also encompasses about 2k rounds of various handgun ammo throughout the years, as well as probably 10k 7.62x39 rounds through an AK variant.
My statement also encompasses about 2k rounds of various handgun ammo throughout the years, as well as probably 10k 7.62x39 rounds through an AK variant.
W.E.G.
Member
I have a "com-bloc" AK in .223.
It dislikes Wolf steel-case ammo less than my AR's.
But it still dislikes the steel stuff. Runs fine with brass. Occasional short-cycle with steel-case.
Its not a com-bloc thing.
Its a steel-case .223 thing.
I would NEVER trust that stuff in .223 in ANY GUN for any situation involving playing for keeps.
Almost nobody on this board will EVER find himself in that situation.
So, have fun, and carry a cleaning rod.
Worst thing that is likely to happen is you will burn your finger on the cleaning rod.
For that time when you hear your front door being smashed at 2:00 a.m., and you weren't expecting anybody, I highly recommend brass-cased ammo and a reliable weapon.
It dislikes Wolf steel-case ammo less than my AR's.
But it still dislikes the steel stuff. Runs fine with brass. Occasional short-cycle with steel-case.
Its not a com-bloc thing.
Its a steel-case .223 thing.
I would NEVER trust that stuff in .223 in ANY GUN for any situation involving playing for keeps.
Almost nobody on this board will EVER find himself in that situation.
So, have fun, and carry a cleaning rod.
Worst thing that is likely to happen is you will burn your finger on the cleaning rod.
For that time when you hear your front door being smashed at 2:00 a.m., and you weren't expecting anybody, I highly recommend brass-cased ammo and a reliable weapon.
Hanzo581
Member
I had been running PMC brass through my SIG 556 and on a whim picked up some Tula from Walmart to try, out of 30 rounds I only had one issue where the bolt locked back as if the last round had been fired, I released the bolt and went back to shooting. I gave some rounds to my friend to have him try them through his new Daniel Defense AR15, it did not like it, but to be fair his rifle wasn't really broken in yet.
brnmuenchow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2011
- Messages
- 612
I don't currently have any experience with the .223 AK's, but someone I worked with told me not to get one because it didn't cycle well (He sold it.). I also don't know if he was using steel or brass. My cousin was using steel cased .223 in his mini-14 and constantly was running into problems, and as of yet he can't find anything wrong with the gun itself, I think he switched to a different type of ammo like Blackills re-manufacture or something and claims it's got better. That however, is the point not all guns are the same and some are going to perform differently.
brnmuenchow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2011
- Messages
- 612
Personally I have never considered getting a .233 AK, I just stuck with the trad. 5.45x39 AK-74.
But if they are infact having issues with the AK using .223 steel ammo than I'll stick with my 5.45 Steel.
I shoot more steel than brass, but I don't shoot steel through my AR's.
But if they are infact having issues with the AK using .223 steel ammo than I'll stick with my 5.45 Steel.
I shoot more steel than brass, but I don't shoot steel through my AR's.
W.E.G.
Member
I got the .223 AK because I had almost a whole case of WOLF steel-case ammo that would not function in my AR's!
I'm gonna sell the dang thing as soon as the politicians spook the gun owners real good again.
chevyman097
Member
you seem like a stand up fella....
XM855
Member
I've shot about 200 rounds of Herter's and over 800 rounds of Tula and Silver Bear in my Rock River. Not one issue so far; the bolt locked back on ever empty magazine, no failures of any sort. These rounds are definitely loaded hot.
The only issue I've ever seen proven about steel ammo is that brass won't function correctly after it if you don't clean between switching. I can't remember the sight, but they tested this with South African surplus, ball ammo and Wolf. First they shot brass, no issues. Then steel, no issues. Then brass, would not eject. Eventually they found that it's because steel does not expand nearly as much as brass does, so carbon get in the chamber and when the brass expands into the carbon-lined chamber, it will stick. Besides that, the only other prominent issue is that it might wear out your extractor a tad faster, but the amount you save in shooting steel ammo will more than compensate for the price of a new extractor.
However, if we're talking pistols, a range officer I talked to once said that when he used to work as an armorer, one of the guys in his group managed to weld a steel case onto a barrel and they had to replace the barrel. I've personally shot about 200 rounds of steel case through a handgun at one range session and had no issues.
The only issue I've ever seen proven about steel ammo is that brass won't function correctly after it if you don't clean between switching. I can't remember the sight, but they tested this with South African surplus, ball ammo and Wolf. First they shot brass, no issues. Then steel, no issues. Then brass, would not eject. Eventually they found that it's because steel does not expand nearly as much as brass does, so carbon get in the chamber and when the brass expands into the carbon-lined chamber, it will stick. Besides that, the only other prominent issue is that it might wear out your extractor a tad faster, but the amount you save in shooting steel ammo will more than compensate for the price of a new extractor.
However, if we're talking pistols, a range officer I talked to once said that when he used to work as an armorer, one of the guys in his group managed to weld a steel case onto a barrel and they had to replace the barrel. I've personally shot about 200 rounds of steel case through a handgun at one range session and had no issues.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
