Steel plate targets.... Newbie question

[BCRider]

So... how come bullets don't ricochet off steel plate targets when used in settings like IPSC and close in silhouette shooting? And just how thick do these targets need to be to, presumably, make the bullets deform or disintegrate and avoid any nasty ricochets? Or is it the angles they hit at? Like I noted in the title, this is a newbie wondering alert....

I look at some of the IPSC, IDPA and steel silhouette shooting on YouTube and can't help but wonder why there isn't a lot of "ZIIIING!" and "PEEEWW!" sounds in the audio tracks.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

i may be wrong, but i think it is because the targets have a little give to them. they absorb the momentum of the bullet rather then reflecting it back.

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

I was at a weekly IPSC practice in college and got hit with a richocheting .45acp bullet. The shooter hit a steel knock down and the bullet came back and hit me in the shin. It stung a little but didn't get through my pants and didn't leave a bruise. So, it does happen, that's why you always wear eye protection in these kinds of sports.

 

[Japle]

The targets should be turned enough to allow the splatter to miss the shooters and spectators. Doesn't always work, though.

I've been hit three times by richochets from steel targets at matches. The first one was from a .38 revolver. It hit the center of the right lens of my glasses. The second was from a .45 that hit my chest. The last one was from a 9mm that traveled 40 yds and hit my bare arm. No damage from any of them.

 

[MrBorland]

Never shot steel myself - do they mandate lead bullets only, or can you use jacketed ammo?

I've not seen a lot of ricochets myself, but from those that I have seen, it looked like it was the copper jacket that actually ricocheted. Maybe steel shooters are shooting lead bullets?

 

[jbauch357]

I've been hit by fragmented hunks of bullet at an indoor range also - and been told it's not that uncommon...

 

[presspuller]

On my range I tilt the plates forward enough that the splatter is directed downward.

 

[SavageMOA]

All the steel targets at my range are canted forward about 15 degrees so that the bullet is deflected downward. It works for us!

 

[GRIZ22]

Even with angling metal targets you can get hit with bullet fragments at some distance.

You always need eye protection even if you're an onlooker

I have been hit by bullet fragments standing 30 yards away. A piece of jacket material hit me on the stomach. I pulled it out like a bee stinger. Definitely would have done serious damage if it hit me in the eye.

If you want to engage metal targets closer than 15 yards or so you need to use frangible ammo. The best I've seen is the stuff with the green bullets (can't remeber the brand name). Some of the frangible ammo on the market isn't that frangible.

 

[Hk Dan]

Oh, make NO mistake, the bullets splatter and come back at you no matter what you do. It's more of a problem with .45 ACP as they are slow enough not to completely disintegrate, but they'll all bite ya. Minimum distance, 10 yards, and at that expect to get hit. 15 or 20 is far better.

 

[easyrider604]

I look at some of the IPSC, IDPA and steel silhouette shooting on YouTube and can't help but wonder why there isn't a lot of "ZIIIING!" and "PEEEWW!" sounds in the audio tracks.

Because Hollywood does not make Youtube movies.

 

[skeptiq]

Because Hollywood does not make Youtube movies.

Priceless!

 

[EShell]

i may be wrong, but i think it is because the targets have a little give to them. they absorb the momentum of the bullet rather then reflecting it back.

Actually, it's exactly opposite. The customary AR500 steel is so hard (Brinell 500+ surface hardness) that the bullet's energy goes toward fragmenting it and it literally splatters to dust. I have a bunch of AR-500 steel plates and they withstand .300 WinMag hits at 100 yards with no permanent damage. As posted above, lower (pistol) velocities sometimes allow incomplete fragmentation and pieces will occasionally return.

Softer steel is very dangerous to shoot, because the bullets will partially penetrate, creating a crater. They become entrapped below the surface of the steel, cannot fragment and literally squirt back to the shooter.

 

[Drail]

Thank you Eshell, I was waiting for someone with some steel shooting experience to show up. I worked on steel matches for a few years as a steel monkey and occasionally one (or a piece of one) would come back on some poor soul. But folks were always amazed at the end of the match when they would walk down and see the pile of cast slugs laying at the foot of the steel. I stood next to a guy once shooting at a swinger with a S&W .44 Spl. with pretty light loads. He got it swinging pretty good and it batted one back and hit him right between the eyes. Perfect timing. I took the gun out of his hands as he crumpled to the ground thinking "this looks real bad" and he walked away with a big strawberry and a hell of a headache. We got rid of all the swingers after that and heavily enforced eye protection. Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection. If anybody goes to the range and you see people shooting steel be careful where you stand if they look like they don't know what they're doing. It can be done safely but some folks have a slow learning curve.

 

[BCRider]

Lots of great info here. Thanks to all. THe post by EShell struck a note too as the range guy mentioned about dents forming a cup that could catch and run a bullet back at near full speed as well.

So part of it is to keep them so that the natural reflection angle from shooting downwards to them (targets are often shorter than the shooters), canting them forward a little so the combo directs any reflections into the dirt and then on top of that do not shoot at them at a significant angle from the side. And finally use armor rated steel or at least a heat treated steel that won't deform. But still expect some small fragments to bounce around at a reduced velocity.

Gotcha....

 

[ZRX61]

Softer steel is very dangerous to shoot, because the bullets will partially penetrate, creating a crater. They become entrapped below the surface of the steel, cannot fragment and literally squirt back to the shooter.

& it looks like this (from the back)... 3/4in steel plate

 

[Chihuahua Floyd]

Not a real expert, only been shooting SASS steel targets for 8 years. Lead bullets only. Armor plate steel targets. I've read both hard and soft lead works best. I don't know the final truth about that. I cast from wheel weights and have no problems. Most bullets fragment into a small button that falls at the base of the target. Some do bounce.
Like has been mentioned, eye protection is mandatory.

 

[Jim Watson]

A smooth hard steel target will fragment the bullets. It should be square to the line of fire, with a little down angle to throw the bits into the ground.

I have been hit by a lot of stuff but the only hard hits were from rough or angled plates. I noticed my club's plinking plate was down and thought it had been stolen, not unusual on that range. But it turned up in the supply shed with a nice pattern of rifle hit craters that some inconsiderate s.o.b. put in it that rendered it unsafe for pistols and .22s.

 

[JoeSlomo]

The plate rack at my local range has mucho craters, and the rack that holds the plates is expose to fire. Close shots could indeed be dangerous, especially if you hit the rack itself.

There are folks that don't know any better and shoot things that are NOT meant to be shot at them unknowingly risking injury to themselves, and those that follow in their path. Education is key, so when you see someone trying to shoot at steel from say.....7 feet, educate them.

 

[Aka Zero]

just use a.p. ammo, goes right through.... /sarcasm

Even .22 can do some pretty mean things. Had a piece hit me in the face while just plinking, 15 yards, random tagets, all soft ( wood, aluminum cans, plastic bottles) Must have hit a rock in the ground. Left a little red mark, no blood really.

But I can only imagine some fmj from a 9mm catching me at that range. would have been a lot less fun.......

 

[Dickieray]

Okay.......we know we should use only AR500 steel, but, I don't remember seeing in any of the posts a recommended thickness. What do you recommend for 1. Pistol, and 2.Rifle???

 

[EShell]

I use 3/8" AR-500 material, which will resist deforming very well. We've shot it with 210 Bergers from a .300WinMag as close at 100 yards and the marks spray paint right off.

We've hit it repeatedly with a .338 Lapua, which, while not damaging the surface layer, eventually causes a little dishing of the plate. This is not dangerous, but does increase the size of the splash marks, so when a plate starts to bow a little, we just flip it over and shoot it form the back awhile.

I've had it shot at 1k with a .50BMG, which doesn't damage the surface, as a rule. It does bend the plate rather quickly, but the bigger problem is that even .50BMG "ball" is often not pure lead core. A "ball" round with the sintered steel core one often encounters WILL damage the hard surface layer, even at 1,000 yards.

Many commercial targets use 1/2", and if I were running a range where I'd get a lot of wear and the plates are a little smaller, I'd go to 1/2".

As it is, at over $1,000 for a 4x8 sheet, the 3/8" is expensive enough. Since steel is sold by the pound, 1/2" is proportionally more expensive.

Also, 1/2" is proportionally heavier than 3/8", and my 24 x 33 torso-sized plate is already 85#, which is getting to be enough trouble to haul up the berm at Quantico. A 1/2" plate the same size would be over 110#.

Something worthy of noting is that extremely high velocity bullets, such as those at over 3,000 from a .223, etc., will pockmark the surface. Since all of the "AR" series of steel is merely "Abrasion Resistant" and only surface hardened, if a lot of wear like this is anticipated, the 1/2" is going to hold up longer/better because the hard layer is a little thicker.

The SS109 bullet, as well as the steel jacketed bullets one finds in much of the commie calibers and stuff like Turk 8x57 is very hard on the plates, and dangerous to shoot. It chips the surface layer and steel-on-steel impact allows the bullet fragment to retain a LOT of it's initial velocity.

 

[ZRX61]

Find a salvage yard that deals with surplus military aircraft & ask for a piece of armor plate..
I have a piece of 1/4in aluminum thats been shot at with a variety of rounds. The mini 14 & .303 put holes in it, the 9mm put big dents in it, the .357 blew the paint of it & the .22 put very small dents in it.

 

[EShell]

So, where did the bullets go that bounced off?

 

[VegasOPM]

I shoot steel at least 2-3 days per week. The targets tend to be held on somewhat loosely, so the energy dissipates on impact. The bullets fragment and splatter. It cuts the heck out of my target stands- but 2x4's are cheap. I shoot jacketed, hardball rounds for the most part, and have never had any injury worse than a minor nick or a bruise. My personal limit is 7 yds from the steel- although I have been closer than that more than once.