Big Mike
Member
Along the lines of the Springfield XD .40/9mm mag solution...will the .40 Steyr mag hold and shoot 9mm reliably? If so, how many 9mm can the .40 hold? Mike
Steyr S40 WOW
- Thread starter sturmruger
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sturmruger
Member
Steyr M40 mags
Unfortunetly it is only possible to fit 12 rounds of 9mm in the Steyr .40 mags. I did have to modify the lips of the .40 mag, but it was not enough to be able to notice. The mag that I modified will still shoot .40 just fine. I now have an interchangable magazine.
Unfortunetly it is only possible to fit 12 rounds of 9mm in the Steyr .40 mags. I did have to modify the lips of the .40 mag, but it was not enough to be able to notice. The mag that I modified will still shoot .40 just fine. I now have an interchangable magazine.
Here is where you can find the article.
American Handgunner: Combat 2000 Annual Vol. 5; Display until April 30, 2000; "The Steyr M: Wicked Cool" by Massad Ayoob.
Customer Service: 619-297-8032
internet email: [email protected]
I am going to email the magazine...assuming that is the correct address...See if I can get a print copy, or possibly a scanned copy of the article.
American Handgunner: Combat 2000 Annual Vol. 5; Display until April 30, 2000; "The Steyr M: Wicked Cool" by Massad Ayoob.
Customer Service: 619-297-8032
internet email: [email protected]
I am going to email the magazine...assuming that is the correct address...See if I can get a print copy, or possibly a scanned copy of the article.
Big Mike
Member
Isaiah4110
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2003
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- 4
DON'T DO IT!
It won't work. Don't bother chasing Sigma mags to work in your Steyr M-Series. The results are unsatisfactory. Several previous posts have said that they will work and implied that the user had actually done it. I don't see how it is possible to get good results. The Sigma (9mm 17-rd) mag is approximately 1mm narrower than the factory M9 mag, so it's a loose, sloppy fit in the mag well. At the point where the magazine catch engages the new slot that has to be cut into the mag, the Sigma is 2 mm narrower. The Sigma mag is tapered much more in the front than the M9. The extra 2 mm prevents positive engagement of the mag catch. If you want to put 4 layers of electrical tape on the side of the mag opposite the catch, it sorta-kinda works. It appears as if it won't fall out of its own accord, but this pushes the mag over too far to reliably engage the slide lock, and probably affects reliable feeding but I haven't even attempted to shoot with it. The mag will simply fall out if all you do is cut a new slot. If anybody else finds something that does work, pass it on. Meanwhile, I'm pretty PO'd at myself for believing the crap that gets passed around as gospel and ruining an otherwise perfectly good $60.00 mag.
It won't work. Don't bother chasing Sigma mags to work in your Steyr M-Series. The results are unsatisfactory. Several previous posts have said that they will work and implied that the user had actually done it. I don't see how it is possible to get good results. The Sigma (9mm 17-rd) mag is approximately 1mm narrower than the factory M9 mag, so it's a loose, sloppy fit in the mag well. At the point where the magazine catch engages the new slot that has to be cut into the mag, the Sigma is 2 mm narrower. The Sigma mag is tapered much more in the front than the M9. The extra 2 mm prevents positive engagement of the mag catch. If you want to put 4 layers of electrical tape on the side of the mag opposite the catch, it sorta-kinda works. It appears as if it won't fall out of its own accord, but this pushes the mag over too far to reliably engage the slide lock, and probably affects reliable feeding but I haven't even attempted to shoot with it. The mag will simply fall out if all you do is cut a new slot. If anybody else finds something that does work, pass it on. Meanwhile, I'm pretty PO'd at myself for believing the crap that gets passed around as gospel and ruining an otherwise perfectly good $60.00 mag.
I have used a 40 Steyr mag in a 9mm Steyr. It held 12 rounds, but it did not feed reliably. The cases fed fine when the slide was cycled by hand, but in actual firing, about 30% of the time, the live round being fed from the mag stovepiped and jammed. Since I wasn't all that eager to increase my 9mm round count by 2, I was unwilling to reshape lips, etc, in order to make it work, and thereby possibly create a feed problem when used in the 40.
Sturm, what exactly has to be done to the 40 mags to use them reliably with the 9? What has to be done to the lip? If you can take some pictures that would be helpful....Now that someone has expressed some concern with the fit of the SIGMA mags, I am reluctant to purchase one...
Increasing the capacity by 2 rounds might be worth it....12+1 is still quite a few rounds.
Increasing the capacity by 2 rounds might be worth it....12+1 is still quite a few rounds.
As for the question of Sigma mags in Steyrs... I don't see how cutting the catch notch out would be legal. Although I read back through some earlier posts and see that Sturm claims the notch would be cut on the opposite side, he is mistaken. Both the Sigma and Steyr have mag release buttons on the left side of the gun, which puts the mag notch on the right side. Since I happen to have about every polymer 40 made, and probably too many 9s as well, I pulled out a Sigma mag to compare notch location to the Steyr. Dremel-ing the Sigma notch higher would appear to work (although I haven't measured.. and I saw the earlier post by someone who claimed he had), but you would wind up with a really BIG mag notch, which would no longer hold the mag in proper alignment if used in a Sigma.... which leads back to my doubts expressed in the opening sentence.
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sturmruger
Member
Here is the Scoop ArinV
It was allot easier that I thought it would be. I would post some pics but with the naked Eye you really can't tell the differance in the altered mag and the regular .40 mag I have.
The first thing I did was take the 9mm mag and measure it with a caliper to see what the width of the lips is. I can't find my caliper otherwise I would post the measurements. I then checked to see how much wider the .40 cal mag is. I then split the differance. I think the .40 was only 1mm wider so I ended up bringing the lips together about a 1/2 mm. I took the base off of the mag and removed all the guts. I then put the mag in a vise and tapped on the lips with a brass hammer until I had brought them together sufficantly.
I have not had one jam or any feed problems. I got it mixed up and accidently put ten .40 cal cartriges into the altered mag. It still worked just fine. I now have a mag that will hold 10 rounds of .40 and 12 rounds of 9mm. It is my pick. I have night sites on my M9 so I keep that next to my bed with the 12 round clip. I keep the M40 in my car, and carry the S40.
I will try to post some pics if can find my caliper. PM me if you have any more questions.
It was allot easier that I thought it would be. I would post some pics but with the naked Eye you really can't tell the differance in the altered mag and the regular .40 mag I have.
The first thing I did was take the 9mm mag and measure it with a caliper to see what the width of the lips is. I can't find my caliper otherwise I would post the measurements. I then checked to see how much wider the .40 cal mag is. I then split the differance. I think the .40 was only 1mm wider so I ended up bringing the lips together about a 1/2 mm. I took the base off of the mag and removed all the guts. I then put the mag in a vise and tapped on the lips with a brass hammer until I had brought them together sufficantly.
I have not had one jam or any feed problems. I got it mixed up and accidently put ten .40 cal cartriges into the altered mag. It still worked just fine. I now have a mag that will hold 10 rounds of .40 and 12 rounds of 9mm. It is my pick. I have night sites on my M9 so I keep that next to my bed with the 12 round clip. I keep the M40 in my car, and carry the S40.
I will try to post some pics if can find my caliper. PM me if you have any more questions.
twoblink
Member
My question is, does the S40 seem a bit bulky for ccw, or is the size of it fine?
I own an M40, and would love to have an S40. I'm quite familiar with the gun, and having a ccw that shares magazines with your primary, is gotta be a good thing..
(Hear that HK!!! Magazine compatibility!!)
I own an M40, and would love to have an S40. I'm quite familiar with the gun, and having a ccw that shares magazines with your primary, is gotta be a good thing..
(Hear that HK!!! Magazine compatibility!!)
Zundfolge
Member
I've CCW'd with my M40 and the only problem I had is because of grip length.
For a double stack pistol its pretty darn slim, so I imagine the S40 would be awesome to carry.
For a double stack pistol its pretty darn slim, so I imagine the S40 would be awesome to carry.
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sturmruger
Member
S40 low Down
I have carried all of my Steyr guns. The S40 is by far the easiest. The M40 and M9 are both fairly hefty guns to carry every day. I live in Iowa, with all the cold weather we get I can usually dress with enough layers that the full size Styer guns are not a problem. The biggest advantage with the S series is the smaller grip. It fits under my shirt allot better then the M series does. I did carry a Tauras PT-140 for a while because of the great size. I really couldn't shoot it very well because I am not a big fan of the long double action trigger pull. My S40 is very close to the size of PT140, but it is ten times easier to shoot.
I think the S40 should have a little bit shorter barrel, but other then that it seems to be the perfect CCW gun for my carry methods. I do keep my M40 in a holster under my seat in the car. Another big advantage is the fact that I can swap .40 caliber magazines between these two guns. If I ever do get into a pinch I should be well prepared when it comes to ammo.
As far as accuracy goes, I have been having great luck with my the new S40.
I have carried all of my Steyr guns. The S40 is by far the easiest. The M40 and M9 are both fairly hefty guns to carry every day. I live in Iowa, with all the cold weather we get I can usually dress with enough layers that the full size Styer guns are not a problem. The biggest advantage with the S series is the smaller grip. It fits under my shirt allot better then the M series does. I did carry a Tauras PT-140 for a while because of the great size. I really couldn't shoot it very well because I am not a big fan of the long double action trigger pull. My S40 is very close to the size of PT140, but it is ten times easier to shoot.
I think the S40 should have a little bit shorter barrel, but other then that it seems to be the perfect CCW gun for my carry methods. I do keep my M40 in a holster under my seat in the car. Another big advantage is the fact that I can swap .40 caliber magazines between these two guns. If I ever do get into a pinch I should be well prepared when it comes to ammo.
As far as accuracy goes, I have been having great luck with my the new S40.
Steyr Hahn
Member
Pre-ban vs Post ban magazines...
Gentlemen,
Perhaps I’ve missed something in this thread, however, the jest of what is being proposed here is to modify a “pre-ban†S&W standard capacity magazine to work in a “post ban†Steyr M9 handgun for which nothing but small capacity magazines are available. Several of the gentlemen have inquired about the possibility of running afoul of the “Federal Assault Weapons Ban†by modifying a magazine.
First, the Federal AW ban of September 13 1994 has no affect on any firearm or firearm accessory manufactured before the ban. That means, for the sake of this discussion that there are no Federal laws governing how we may choose to use a “pre-ban†magazine. Some states do, however, have laws that regulate the use and ownership of “pre-ban†standard capacity magazines. But those laws are only applicable to the residents of those states.
So, if your state isn’t one of the repressive ones then you are in fact free to use “pre-ban†magazines in your post ban firearms, modify, repair, and change around to use in anyway you choose.
The Federal AW ban, regarding “post ban†magazines, we may use them in any firearm we choose, repair them, modify them in any way we want, with one exception. We may not modify/change or convert a “post ban†magazine to function with, hold/contain more than 10 cartridges.
18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, section 921(a)(31) defines the term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" as; -2- (A)... a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but (B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with .22 caliber rimfire ammunition." The date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 referred to above is September 13, 1994. Further, Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, section 922(w)(1) provides that "Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device" and "(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection."
Gentlemen,
Perhaps I’ve missed something in this thread, however, the jest of what is being proposed here is to modify a “pre-ban†S&W standard capacity magazine to work in a “post ban†Steyr M9 handgun for which nothing but small capacity magazines are available. Several of the gentlemen have inquired about the possibility of running afoul of the “Federal Assault Weapons Ban†by modifying a magazine.
First, the Federal AW ban of September 13 1994 has no affect on any firearm or firearm accessory manufactured before the ban. That means, for the sake of this discussion that there are no Federal laws governing how we may choose to use a “pre-ban†magazine. Some states do, however, have laws that regulate the use and ownership of “pre-ban†standard capacity magazines. But those laws are only applicable to the residents of those states.
So, if your state isn’t one of the repressive ones then you are in fact free to use “pre-ban†magazines in your post ban firearms, modify, repair, and change around to use in anyway you choose.
The Federal AW ban, regarding “post ban†magazines, we may use them in any firearm we choose, repair them, modify them in any way we want, with one exception. We may not modify/change or convert a “post ban†magazine to function with, hold/contain more than 10 cartridges.
18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, section 921(a)(31) defines the term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" as; -2- (A)... a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but (B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with .22 caliber rimfire ammunition." The date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 referred to above is September 13, 1994. Further, Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, section 922(w)(1) provides that "Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device" and "(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection."
I think you have indeed missed the boat. And although I am not a lawyer, my layman's understanding is that if you take a mag with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds, and modify it such that its original function cannot be performed (i.e., fit in its designed firearm), then what you have actually done is MANUFACTURED a NEW mag... which puts you directly afoul of the statute you are referencing.
Zundfolge
Member
philr is correct ... however the modification to the Sigma mag to make it work in the Steyr does NOT modify the magazine so that it will not work in a Sigma ... you can pop it out of your Steyr and back into the Sigma and it will still work.
Isaiah4110
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2003
- Messages
- 4
Why Bother?
Legality issues aside, why bother? The Steyr "modification" of the Sigma mag may not prevent it from working in the Sigma, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE STEYR EITHER! I'm not guessing or speculating, I tried this. See my previous post.
Legality issues aside, why bother? The Steyr "modification" of the Sigma mag may not prevent it from working in the Sigma, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE STEYR EITHER! I'm not guessing or speculating, I tried this. See my previous post.
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sturmruger
Member
I agree
I spent $90 on two Sigma mags. I just couldn't bring myself to modify them. Next Sept we will all be able to buy the High Capacity mags again so why bother. I did have really good luck putting 9mm cartridges in the .40 mags.
I spent $90 on two Sigma mags. I just couldn't bring myself to modify them. Next Sept we will all be able to buy the High Capacity mags again so why bother. I did have really good luck putting 9mm cartridges in the .40 mags.
Steyr Hahn
Member
philr, & Zundfolge,
I must disagree. You are not manufacturing a "new" "large capacity ammunition feeding device" you have only taken a existing "otherwise lawfully possessed large capacity ammunition feeding device " and modified it to work in another firearm.
If this sort modification were not legal firearms manufacturers like Olympic Arms would not have been doing just that since 1994. They have in fact been supplying Sten mag's with a spacer block welded on with/for their 9mm conversion AR-15 upper receivers. Also for that matter Uzi 45 cal mag's modified in the same way for the 45 ACP uppers.
It sure seems to me that if it were as you believe, welding a 1" thick block to the top back side of a mag which very definitely prevents the mag's from working in the original firearm, the BATF would have had something to say about it. Fact is that many thousands of Sten & Uzi mags have been so modified and sold all over the US of A. This has been going on for the nearly 9 years since the stupid Klinton ban was passed and the BATF has yet to put a stop to it!
It is my observation that if the practice of changing a "otherwise lawfully possessed large capacity ammunition feeding device " to work in a firearm other than the one it was originally manufactured for the Feds would have put a halt to it long ago. The simple fact is the practice continues to this very day, uninterrupted.
I must disagree. You are not manufacturing a "new" "large capacity ammunition feeding device" you have only taken a existing "otherwise lawfully possessed large capacity ammunition feeding device " and modified it to work in another firearm.
If this sort modification were not legal firearms manufacturers like Olympic Arms would not have been doing just that since 1994. They have in fact been supplying Sten mag's with a spacer block welded on with/for their 9mm conversion AR-15 upper receivers. Also for that matter Uzi 45 cal mag's modified in the same way for the 45 ACP uppers.
It sure seems to me that if it were as you believe, welding a 1" thick block to the top back side of a mag which very definitely prevents the mag's from working in the original firearm, the BATF would have had something to say about it. Fact is that many thousands of Sten & Uzi mags have been so modified and sold all over the US of A. This has been going on for the nearly 9 years since the stupid Klinton ban was passed and the BATF has yet to put a stop to it!
It is my observation that if the practice of changing a "otherwise lawfully possessed large capacity ammunition feeding device " to work in a firearm other than the one it was originally manufactured for the Feds would have put a halt to it long ago. The simple fact is the practice continues to this very day, uninterrupted.
Zanders sporting goods is supposed to be hammering out a new agreement with Steyr to become the new U.S. importer of the M/S Series of pistols.
Also, Diamond Trail Shooter's Supply, www.usasteyr.com is currently the only U.S. based service center for the M/S Series, stocking parts and accessories as well.
It's good to finally see some positive news regarding support for these pistols, though I still have yet to here of Steyr announcing that they've found a permanent home for their factory.
Best, jnb01
Also, Diamond Trail Shooter's Supply, www.usasteyr.com is currently the only U.S. based service center for the M/S Series, stocking parts and accessories as well.
It's good to finally see some positive news regarding support for these pistols, though I still have yet to here of Steyr announcing that they've found a permanent home for their factory.
Best, jnb01
You're correct.....
Zanders is indeed importing Steyrs. I know because I just bought an M40 about two months ago. The gun shop that I purchased it from ordered it for me from Zanders. Subsequently, I called Zanders to check on warranty info and they confirmed that Diamond Trail Shooters Supply is indeed doing any warranty work and parts.
If you need factory magazines, CDNN has them for $25 apiece.
IMHO the Steyr is gem of a weapon as yet undiscovered by the bulk of the shooting crowd.
LD
Zanders is indeed importing Steyrs. I know because I just bought an M40 about two months ago. The gun shop that I purchased it from ordered it for me from Zanders. Subsequently, I called Zanders to check on warranty info and they confirmed that Diamond Trail Shooters Supply is indeed doing any warranty work and parts.
If you need factory magazines, CDNN has them for $25 apiece.
IMHO the Steyr is gem of a weapon as yet undiscovered by the bulk of the shooting crowd.
LD
Cthulhu
Member
Not so fast. Mine works, but I used a Sigma .40 mag in Steyr M40. Mag dimensions are almost identical. Notch is a seperate one located higher on the mag body than the factory notch. No mods done to the factory catch, so it still works in a Sigma. Holds 15rnds, has worked perfectly for 150rnds, holds open on the last round too. Working on grinding the outside of the baseplate (which won't affect Sigma function either, BTW).
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