Still Dodging Immigration's Truths - Robt. Samuelson, today, Washington Post

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longeyes

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Still Dodging Immigration's Truths

By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, May 17, 2006; A23

President Bush's immigration speech mostly missed the true nature of the problem. We face two interconnected population issues. One is aging; the other is immigration. We aren't dealing sensibly with either, and as a result we face a future of unnecessarily heightened political and economic conflict. On the one side will be older baby boomers demanding all their federal retirement benefits. On the other will be an expanding population of younger and poorer Hispanics -- immigrants, their children and grandchildren -- increasingly resentful of their rising taxes that subsidize often-wealthier and unrelated baby boomers.

Does this look like a harmonious future?

But you couldn't glean the danger from Bush's speech Monday night. Nor will you hear of it from most Democrats and (to be fair) the mainstream media. There is much muddle to our immigration debate. The central problem is not illegal immigration. It is undesirably high levels of poor and low-skilled immigrants, whether legal or illegal, most of whom are Hispanic. Immigrants are not all the same. An engineer making $75,000 annually contributes more to the American economy and society than a $20,000 laborer. On average, the engineer will assimilate more easily.

Testifying recently before Congress, University of Illinois economist Barry Chiswick -- a respected immigration scholar -- said this of low-skilled immigrants:

"Their presence in the labor market increases competition for low-skilled jobs, reducing the earnings of low-skilled native-born workers. . . . Because of their low earnings, low-skilled immigrants also tend to pay less in taxes than they receive in public benefits, such as income transfers (e.g., the earned income tax credit, food stamps), public schooling for their children, and publicly provided medical services. Thus while the presence of low-skilled immigrant workers may raise the profits of their employers, they tend to have a negative effect on the well-being of the low-skilled native-born population, and on the native economy as a whole."

Hardly anyone is discussing these issues candidly. It is politically inexpedient to do so. We can be a lawful society and a welcoming society simultaneously, to use the president's phrase, but we cannot be a welcoming society for limitless numbers of Latin America's poor without seriously compromising our own future -- and, indeed, the future of many of the Latinos already here. Yet, that is precisely what the president and many senators (Democratic and Republican) support by endorsing large "guest worker" programs and an expansion of today's system of legal visas. In practice these proposals would result in substantial increases of low-skilled immigrants.

How fast can they assimilate? We cannot know, but we can consult history. It is sobering. In 1972 Hispanics were 5 percent of the U.S. population and their median household income was 74 percent of that of non-Hispanic white households. In 2004 Hispanics were 14 percent of the population, and their median household income was 70 percent of the level of non-Hispanic whites. These numbers suggest that rapid immigration of low-skilled workers and rapid assimilation are at odds. Some immigrant families make huge advances, but many don't and newcomers represent a constant drag.

The difficulties are obvious. Competition among them depresses wages. Social services are stretched thin. In 2000 children of immigrants already represented a quarter of all low-income students in U.S. schools, an Urban Institute study reports. The figure is probably higher today. The study also reports that immigrant children are rapidly spreading beyond the six states where they had traditionally concentrated (California, Texas, Florida, Illinois, New York and New Jersey). This may explain why immigration has suddenly become such an explosive issue. A reader e-mails: "There are children in my son's school who aren't able to speak a single word of English, and it is causing such frustration amongst the staff and other children . . . I am afraid for my son's future."

There are striking parallels between how we've treated immigration and aging. In both cases, the facts are hiding in plain view. But we've chosen to ignore them because candor seems insensitive and politically awkward. Who wants to offend the elderly or Latinos? The result is to make our choices worse by postponing them. A sensible society would long ago have begun adapting to longer life expectancies, better health and greater wealth by making careful cuts in Social Security and Medicare. We've done little.

Unfortunately, the two problems intersect. Just coincidentally, the Census Bureau projects both the 65-and-over population and the Hispanic population to be about a fifth of the total by 2030 (the elderly population is now about 12 percent). The tax increases that will be required to pay for existing federal commitments to the elderly are on the order of 30 to 40 percent. People who don't think there will be conflicts between older beneficiaries and younger taxpayers -- Hispanic or not -- are deluding themselves. People who imagine there won't be more conflicts between growing numbers of poor Latinos and poor African Americans for jobs and political power are also deluding themselves.

As the president says, we need a "comprehensive" immigration policy. He's right on some elements: controlling the border; providing reliable identification cards for legal immigrants; penalizing employers that hire illegal immigrants; providing some legal status for today's illegal immigrants. But he's wrong in wanting to expand the number of low-skilled immigrants based on the fiction of U.S. labor "shortages." In his testimony, economist Chiswick rightly argued that we should do the opposite -- give preferences to skilled immigrants. We should be smart about the future; right now, we're not.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company
 
In his testimony, economist Chiswick rightly argued that we should do the opposite -- give preferences to skilled immigrants. We should be smart about the future; right now, we're not.


Pat Buchanan had it right in his book Death of the West, like him or not,
he is correct and we continue to nail the coffin shut.
 
Regardless of where the "immigrants" come from what we don't need in this country are more unskilled workers. We must realize that productivity in manufacturing, computers, space, medicine etc. can only be achieved with educated people.

Our government is creating another class of people who will be a continual drain on the resources of this country. As is obvious the number of people paying into ss, Medicare, etc. is getting smaller and the number of receivers will grow rather large in the next few years. The unskilled worker/illegal immigrant isn't paying enough to offset their use of the system and given their lack of education to get higher paying jobs they never will.

For whatever it's worth, if we as a country plan to be the best, we cannot allow for "votes" our government to lower our standards to those of the present group of immigrants, not all but I'm sure there are few college degrees in the portfolio of the illegal’s in the country and those who keep streaming in...

The harsh reality is that we are becoming a second rate country because for the last 40 or so years anything goes. It must stop, we must reclaim our nation and in the process kick out anyone who is here illegally.


JMO

C
 
We seem to be moving in the direction of a rich/poor society not sure
if it is designed or ignorance either way we need to gain control and
see we don't lose our middle-class for without them freedom won't exist
as we understand it.
 
Hardly anyone is discussing these issues candidly. It is politically inexpedient to do so.
We have no concept of how well of we are as Americans today. As a result, we (generally) suffer a sympton in common with ADHD. That is, our [political] concept of time is "now" and "not not." The future is "not now," therefore, we can pretend it doesn't exist.
 
It was speculated last night, by one popular media wag, that most of our Senate operates in a meds-driven haze.

Perhaps that accounts for the eternal present that seems to be their consciousness...?
 
...but one issue that isn't discussed

The birthrate of white Americans is simply too low. The higher the wages the lower the birth rate. That is part of the reason we need immigrants. We simply can't import a bunch of white europeans anymore. They are having even fewer babies. In terms of cultural compatibility Latin Americans are actually a very good fit.

Yes, hispanics are growing in population, but the numbers presented (1970s vs today) represent 1 generation. Language assimilation for European immigrants took 2-3 generations AT A MINIMUM. The issue of speaking English is premature. The fact is our Polish, German, Italian, Norwegian ancestors didn't pick up English any quicker. While our Irish ancestors did speak English somewhat, they certainly were NOT high-skilled labor. They were brought in for the same reasons as the Mexican immigrants, to expand the labor pool of cheap labor, in droves. Corporate American wants wage pressure. That is why they are so in favor of opening our borders. (The impact is currently calculated as an 8% decline in the lowest wage brackets).

While I understand many of the concerns about the large immigrant population, the idea of making illegal immigration a felony is preposterous. If social conservatives are so concerned about preserving our national identity, language and culture they should propose a plan to promote COMMON values to the nation as a whole, instead of a warped theocratic interpretation of Americanness that is basically facistic Christian Nationalism wrapped in an American Flag. They also need to stop using a few Mexican nationalist extremist nuts to represent all Latin American immigrants.
 
If social conservatives are so concerned about preserving our national identity, language and culture they should propose a plan to promote COMMON values to the nation as a whole, instead of a warped theocratic interpretation of Americanness that is basically facistic Christian Nationalism wrapped in an American Flag.

But have you read any of the leftwing rhetoric from Latin America? Maybe warped, quasi-theocratic Marxo-Latinism that is basically fascistic socio-Christian nationalism wrapped in a Communist flag?

Your point about Euro-Americans having decided having babies isn't worth the hassle is worth exploring.
 
cloudkiller

Language assimilation for European immigrants took 2-3 generations AT A MINIMUM.

Reference?

The issue of speaking English is premature. The fact is our Polish, German, Italian, Norwegian ancestors didn't pick up English any quicker.

Reference please.

They were brought in for the same reasons as the Mexican immigrants, to expand the labor pool of cheap labor, in droves.

"brought here" ?
In all of my reading on the subject I have never been aware of a group or agency, public or private, originating in the US that planned, funded or managed "the bringing". Then, as now, the motive to come here originated in the source country. If you can provide a credible source to support this position I'll beleive it, otherwise it's going to consider this position contrived.

Corporate American wants wage pressure. That is why they are so in favor of opening our borders. (The impact is currently calculated as an 8% decline in the lowest wage brackets).

+1

S-
 
In all of my reading on the subject I have never been aware of a group or agency, public or private, originating in the US that planned, funded or managed "the bringing".
US Steel Corp. "brought" 10's of thousands from Puerto Rico to work in the mill in Lorain, Ohio during WWII.
The company provided jobs and low cost housing to the workers.
After VE and VJ day, many of then stayed here and got "lost in the system".

The entire South Lorain area to this day is a Puerto Rican ethnic area.

When the PR labor force tapped out, US Steel imported labor from Mexico.

Most of East Lorain Ohio is Mexican/Mexican descent.
Again, after VE and VJ day, most of them stayed and "got lost in the system".

Most of the first generation (which were technically illegals since they had overstayed their work visas) are dead and buried. Thier kids (having been born on US soil) are 100% legal.

On a much smaller individual scale,,,but with combined numbers that exceed US Steel would be the various trades/small businesses. It's common for one person to come here "from the old country", then slip in as many relatives as they can to "work in the family business".
Same type of cycle.
The original parents were technically "illegal", but their kids aren't.


Also check up on which ethinc group built the railway system in the West, and what their reasons for coming here were.
Also goolge "the first wave of immigration to the Unidted States".
Many a future citizen was given the choice of prison or the colonies. Not much of a chocie really.
In that same catagory were the indentured servents.


Nope - lots of people and groups were "brought here".

The "came to seek a better life" theme of immigration is a relativly new idea.
 
If they wanted to be Americans that would be one thing,but it seems to me that the biggest part of these illegals want to be Mexicans and live here,but still consider themselves to be a part of Mexico.
As for them having more children, its harder to have children when you have to be the one who feeds them and takes care of them on min.wage.No way to pay hospital bills or medical needs without any medical insurance.
Most illegals don't have this problem as WE wind up paying for them to raise big familys on our tax dollars!!Why would they want to become taxpayers when they get it FREE???
Send them and the people who employ them back over the border.
If we give them a milsurp rifle and a few rounds of ammo,point them toward Mexico, 20 million of them should be able to change THEIR country for the better,not OURS for the worse.
A Mexican revolution might give them the life that they want without screwing up our country!!!

Just the way I see things.
992
 
Hal

Excellent comment on US Steel. I had not encountered that scenario in my reading so good on you. :)

Probably a small point and I understand the process but:
It's common for one person to come here "from the old country", then slip in as many relatives as they can to "work in the family business".
Same type of cycle.
The original parents were technically "illegal", but their kids aren't.

More like same type of endpoint, no?
Kids born here may not be illegal but all those "slip in"s are. Illegals bringing in more illegals. Not technically the same thing as importation, legal or otherwise, by a company or other formal organization in the US which was what I was aiming at.

Also check up on which ethinc group built the railway system in the West, and what their reasons for coming here were.

I'm well aware of the Chinese contribution but you are aware that in some cases those individuals were virtually "purchased" in Asia by Asians for export to the US. The dynamics of Chinese coming to the US were multifacited to say the least and certainly the RRs were happy to have the labor but I would stop short of saying the organizational core that managed their exodus to the US was a US managed affair as it was not. Could be a chick:egg deal. :)

Also goolge "the first wave of immigration to the Unidted States".
Many a future citizen was given the choice of prison or the colonies. Not much of a chocie really.
In that same catagory were the indentured servents.

But that is my point. They were given the choice in the old country. That would make them less-than-volunatry exports in the case of criminals. No one was sending demand letters from the colonies.
They were sent however not brought.

I can agree with your US Steel example but I have a little trouble with the others and that was what I was taking issue with in my original post. Sent vs brought. I argue that the vast majority of immigrants were sent or came on their own as opposed to a much smaller fraction that were brought here due to the efforts of some US agency/company/group/etc. and I think history supports that.

The same scenario in at play today. The vast majority [by orders of magnitude] of people coming into the US illegally come on their own and are not being brought here by any legitimate US agency/company/group/etc.

Best regards, no flames/arguments intended.

S-
 
The birthrate of white Americans is simply too low

I think if you were to simply increase the income tax deductions for children the problem would solve itself. Many people steer away from having children because of the cost involved, this would address that.
 
The whole "family re-unification" thrust in immigration policy strikes me as discriminatory. Why should someone's blood relations be given an advantage in terms of legal immigration? I don't square that with the principles of treating all as individuals, on their own merits, that we like to think are synonymous with America. Someone comes from Mexico; next thing he's "entitled" to bring in his entire extended family (often at public expense). That isn't fair to potential immigrants from European and Asian nations.
 
Yes, hispanics are growing in population, but the numbers presented (1970s vs today) represent 1 generation. Language assimilation for European immigrants took 2-3 generations AT A MINIMUM. The issue of speaking English is premature. The fact is our Polish, German, Italian, Norwegian ancestors didn't pick up English any quicker.

Complete BS. Both my German and Norwegian ancestors all spoke English by the second generation and the ONLY person who didn't do so in the first generation was my second great grandfather. He ended up in a French speaking part of Canada and one of the eight languages he already spoke fluently was French. He was in his late 50s when he arrived in 1906 along with his wife who did learn to speak English.

I suspect that there was nothing particularly unusual about my family in this regard (other than one of them speaking eight languages) compared to others that arrived in this same time frame (1850 to 1910). I never had a chance to meet my 2nd great grandfather since he died long before I was around. But I do remember every other generation between him and myself and they all spoke fluent English even though the oldest generation where born in Europe and did have an accent.
 
How fast can they assimilate? We cannot know, but we can consult history. It is sobering. In 1972 Hispanics were 5 percent of the U.S. population and their median household income was 74 percent of that of non-Hispanic white households. In 2004 Hispanics were 14 percent of the population, and their median household income was 70 percent of the level of non-Hispanic whites. These numbers suggest that rapid immigration of low-skilled workers and rapid assimilation are at odds. Some immigrant families make huge advances, but many don't and newcomers represent a constant drag.
The underlying problem is that they don't want -- or intend -- to assimilate. They want this to become northern Mexico.

Why are telephone books, telephone bills, much advertising literature, and the signs in places like Home Depot and Lowe's printed in English and Spanish? I live in an area that historically has always had large numbers of central and eastern European immigrants, yet the phone bills aren't printed in English and Polish, or English and Ukrainian. I know first-hand from registering my Russian stepson for high school that there are no English/Russian bi-lingual teachers. The guidance counselor almost choked when I asked her about providing "core subject instruction" in his native language. She made a HUGE deal out of convincing my then-wife that "immersion" was the best way for him to learn English.

If that is so, why are the schools still providing core subject instruction in Spanish for Hispanic immigrants (and illegals)? I know that our school system has bi-lingual (English/Spanish) teachers, and I have no doubt that if my stepson had been Hispanic the guidance drone would have been falling all over herself to sign the kid up for native language core classes.

There is a huge and blatant bias toward the Hispanic invasion. I can't understand why it exists or where it comes from. I do know that a great many of them don't make anything like the contribution to our economy claimed by the gummint. They send as much of their earnings home as they possibly can, representing an immense drain on our economy that is not reflected in balance of trade figures. An article I saw recently put the dollar amount exported by them at $20 BILLION.

Even been to a Western Union service counter? All the supermarkets in my area have WU at the service counter. There's a special form, called "Dinero en Minutos," for sending money from the U.S. to Mexico. Everybody else (Polish, Russian, Turkish, Chinese, Pakistani, ...) has to fill out the standard form ... in English ... to send money to another country. But, want to send your dinero to Mexico? No problemo.

It really is a vast conspiracy, and our government is in it up to their collective, governmental eyeballs.
 
INS just caught one of our contractors using illegals for laying tile in our store. Laying tile pays VERY well here and we suspect that they where paying the illegals a fraction of what a legal worker would make and pocket the rest. From what I have heard, the IRS is giving their books a good review. I just want to strangle the people who use illegals.:fire:
 
Not technically the same thing as importation, legal or otherwise, by a company or other formal organization in the US which was what I was aiming at.
Sorry - I was in a hurry when I typed that part.
I should have made it clearer.
Let me flesh it out a little.

Years ago (1970's) I worked in a paint store in a very ethnic community.
It was common practice for a Greek, Hungarian, Slovac,,,, mostly Eastern European background, to come here legally and find a job in one of the trades. They would usually get by with the help of others of the same ethnic background. Once established and trained, they's strike out on their own - as in start their own small business. Once they had their own business up and going, they'd start bringing over family members for "visits". These visitors would go to work in the family business - working often for just room and board - no wages to speak of. What they needed was provided by "the family". Marriages to others in the community were arranged and the now illegal became quasi-legal - as in mired in red tape. Eventually, they'd just get "lost in the system".

When these type of "family" employment are concerend there isn't any such thing as a green card or min wage. What wages are paid are strictly cash, real estate, vehicles, food,,etc. Homes and property are purchased with funds provided by the family, not a bank. Deeds were placed in the name of the legal spouse. Basically, there isn't (wasn't) any paper trail.

I personally know of one Slovac business owner that brought over 5 family members that way. All of them married as soon as they got here, started working for him, had kids - then went on to repeat the same cycle.
1 brought in 5, then those 5 brought in another 5, so now it's up to 25.
Those 25 bring in another 5 and it's up to 125.
Multiply that same scenrio by the thousands of small ethnic business owners, and the numbers get right up there with US Steel.

- No flames taken or given.
Situations like I describe above aren't what you'll find in any printed material.
You pretty much have/had to live or work in these ethnic communities to be aware of what was/is going on.
The only clue most people have to it are the sterotypes associated with certain jobs - ie: All bridge panters are Greeks, all driveway contractors are Italian, all 7/11 stores are run by Arabs,,,etc.

Another example a bit more recent.

I worked for an Iranian business owner about 8 years ago. He runs a small local computer repair company that he started in 1979. Whenever he wants to "bring someone over", he runs a help wanted ad with very specific requirements. Since these requirments are prety much tailored to the individual he want to bring over, he runs the ad, turn away applicants that don't fit the requirements,,, then goes to INS and says he can't fill the position with a citizen and has to "import" the employee. Once the person is in, they stay on the payroll as a sort of phantom employee, then take off for parts unknown. (one was/is driving a cab in Virginia - one manages a family owned apartment complex in Washington DC - IIRC) - same basic cash and/or goods for work instead of a regular paycheck (with all the withholdings).

'nuther one?

The company I work for now hired a young Russian fellow a few months ago.
He's here on a student visa.(supposedly)
He stayed with the company just long enough to:
- make copies of our customer lists.
- make copies of all of our software w/the keycodes.
- skate before the company could dig into his visa status all the way.
Was he "brought here" or did he "come here"?
I don't know for sure. I strongly suspect (based on my previous experience with the ethnic trades) that he was "brought here" in a similar fashion by family members or very close knit friends of the family. Same basic scenrio - here legally (or seemingly) - immediate marrige to a citizen followed by her getting pregnant within what seems like hours of the ceremony.

The big difference between this guy and the paint guys I used to know and work with is this guy went right for the ($$) throat with the copies of software. He literally skated with software that has millions of dollars worth, that would be next to impossible to trace back to him.

Oddly - the company is more concerned with the customer list.
I view his actions in that respect as a positive thing. I take it as a challange to provide better value to the customer than just a price point of so many $$ for so many hours of *work*. - which strikes at the very heart of the "immigration problem" right? I mean here's a company that's more concerned that someone is going to do the work "cheaper", not "better". When I bring this up, I get the hairy eyeball from every single coworker/supervisor/sales person.:banghead:

Sorry to ramble and rant...
I sit quietly and read now.....
 
insofar as evidence to my claims

I was asked to provide some evidence as to my claim of 2 generations on language assimilation. I don't have the text, but studied immigrant history in graduate school about 15 years ago. That class focused on the different immigrant groups from Europe. 2 generations was considered the timeframe it took to a: leave homogeneous ethnic enclaves as a place of residency b: intermarry with others c: join integrated churches d: acquire English as the primary language.

I know several immigrant descendants whose grandparents still lived in Ethnic enclaves like Italian neighborhoods in Philly and never learned how to speak English. I will grant that for more affluent immigrants (German, Scandinavian) it probably took less time than for less affluent immigrants (Chinese, Italian).

-- Read about immigrant history! Please! Read all of the compliaints about the Irish "animals" who came to contaminate our gene pool. Read about the conflicts between the Jewish, Italian and Irish mafias when you think about all of the crime a new Latin American group supposedly brings over. Read about kids being taught to avoid their "very different" Catholic Immigrant neighbors (as my good friend's mom was taught) because those Catholic's had horns and cloven hooves.

Insofar as "most just want to make this a part of Mexico", I would beg to differ. There are political and social activists who are trying to promote a kind of nationalism in that way. They are loud, and public in their outcry, as are all radicals on the right and the left. -- Their message gets more play than it merits. However, most immigrants are trying to earn money. That is it. Some are here for long enough to send money home (like immigrant Italian males at the turn of the 20th century, 50%of which returned to Italy to buy land). Others are here to settle and make a better life.

-- As far as the issue of birth rate and European Americans. Someone made the point that the tax burden keeps us from having more children. I think this is a false argument. The general rule of all secularized societies in the modern world is that affluence leads to a lower birthrate. This is true in West Africa among those whose crop yields increase, it is true in Western Europe among those who have a huge social safety net allowing for childcare and extensive maternity leave, it is true among the new middle class in Asia, and it is true here.

PLEASE NOTE: I do NOT disagree with those who fear that our culture may become too fragmented, or lack cohesion if immigration is allowed unchecked. I think we need to re-establish a Civil Religion based around respect for constitutional values, and the English language. I think we need to teach ideas of Rights and Responsiblities INSTEAD of hypocritical PC rhetoric about tolerance applied only to those who claim oppression.

HOWEVER, I must sound the alarm when I read statements that are xenophobic and borderline racist, particularly when those statements are EXACTLY THE SAME as quotes you would read from a history book 125 years old. I believe, without a doubt, that the average Latin American illegal immigrant believes more in the truth of the American Dream than most Americans today. We need to teach our children more TRUTHS about WHY this is a better place for THEM, and fewer lies about why they make it a worse place for us.
 
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