fourays2
Member
so does anyone expect this "war on" to be more sucessful than the other wars on terra/some drugs/poverty?
Immigration War to Begin November 2005
- Thread starter Waitone
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JamisJockey
member
What the hell? Whos going to cut my grass now?
longeyes
member
Maybe the same person who will cut off your head in a few years...
DelayedReaction
Member
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wingman said:
If they're not being taxed now, any money they spend here will result in increased tax revenue.
What scares me is exactly how large of a number 11-22 million really is. America has a population of about 295 million. If those estimates are true, then between 4% and 7% of the population is here illegally. Even if the Census doesn't count illegals, that still leaves the percentage between 3% and 7%.
Illegal immigration is a major, major problem. Why don't people see that?
longeyes
member
Maybe the same reason they don't see our indebtedness as a major, major problem or the way that the next generation is being politically brainwashed through our "education" system.
Too busy making a buck, keeping the family happy, channel-surfing.
It is estimated by most sources, that illegals from Mexico sent 14 billion US dollars back to Mex last year instead of spending it here. Quite likely, a good portion of that money was spent to bring family members up to the US where they will suck even more resources from us in the form of many, many social programs available to illegals, especially if they happen to drop an 'anchor baby' on American soil.
But our Pols don't care that the middle class in our country is an endangered species due largely to this problem, only that their corporate buddies profit from the cheap labor and that they gain the hispanic vote. This is one of the main reasons why I finally left the Repubs and started voting 3rd party last election.
Biker
But our Pols don't care that the middle class in our country is an endangered species due largely to this problem, only that their corporate buddies profit from the cheap labor and that they gain the hispanic vote. This is one of the main reasons why I finally left the Repubs and started voting 3rd party last election.
Biker
longeyes
member
+1
I suspect that there are really 20 million illegals in the U.S. We've been seeing two to three million coming over every year in the last couple of administrations. Do the math. Yeah, it's a big percentage now of our population. But figure that 20 per cent of Mexico now lives, illegally, on our side of the border.
I suspect that there are really 20 million illegals in the U.S. We've been seeing two to three million coming over every year in the last couple of administrations. Do the math. Yeah, it's a big percentage now of our population. But figure that 20 per cent of Mexico now lives, illegally, on our side of the border.
Jammer Six
member
We get stronger every time an immigrant crosses the border.
longeyes
member
Jammer Six,
You're right: GOING SOUTH!
You're right: GOING SOUTH!
Waitone
Member
The middle class represents a tremendous pool of wealth not directly controlled by those who would rule us. If the endgame of politics is the control of wealth it is clear the middle class must be controlled (as a minimum) or destroyed. This is the dead elephant in the living room which no one what to acknowledge. There are those who want the American middle class destroyed seeing it as the way to level the playing field among the the US and other countries. Bring the US down and raise other countries up.
How do you destroy the American middle class? Simple really. Impose confiscatory taxation, tie medical care to employment, make medical care unaffordable when self-paid, bring in foreign workers who are not part of the system and pay no taxes but use social services out the wazoo, make it virtually impossible to get a job past a certain age, use low rate workers in manual jobs which puts pressure on skilled manual workers, bring professional skilled workers in from other parts of the world putting pressure on middle income professionals, and finally turn a blind eye to massive voter fraud.
Make no mistake. Illegal immigration is the primary means by which the economic power of the country will be levelled. Illegal immigration involves far more than "hard working people doing a job most Americans won't do". Americans are smart enough and sufficiently informed to sort though the pile of BS dropped by the ruling class. That is why I think this debate over "immigration reform" could get a little testy.
BTW, an investment banking outfit (Goldman Sachs, IIRC) took a detailed look at the underground economy and concluded the real population of illegal immigrants is more llike 30 million.
longeyes
member
yep
Kill the middle-class and you kill America--that's it in essence.
In these pages I've called illegal immigration the ultimate form of body-snatching; it represents, carried to its ultimate, the swapping-out of a "recalcitrant" American population for a more docile and dependent one easily manipulable by the globalist elites.
Just as our core ideas are being replaced in the schools, our population itself is also being replaced.
Kill the middle-class and you kill America--that's it in essence.
In these pages I've called illegal immigration the ultimate form of body-snatching; it represents, carried to its ultimate, the swapping-out of a "recalcitrant" American population for a more docile and dependent one easily manipulable by the globalist elites.
Just as our core ideas are being replaced in the schools, our population itself is also being replaced.
KriegHund
Member
Dang, lots of very good opinions in this thread. A good read.
I wish some of you people could be on the stand when immigration is decided once and for all.
I wish some of you people could be on the stand when immigration is decided once and for all.
Illegal immigration combined with outsourcing, and shipping all manufacturing
jobs to the third world will in time have the effect of killing the middleclass,
I don't care how educated you are, skill level, it does present a whole new
way of life for America. My only question is why, greed, ignorance, or plotting
a course for a new way of life in our country.
?Jammer Six
member
What amuses me is that those jos that Americans won't do include high paying, skilled jobs, as well as lower and mid management.
A larger work force is a stronger country.
A larger work force is a stronger country.
It amuses me that that you won't answer a simple, honest question. You keep dancing your dance and all you do is go in circles.Jammer Six said:What amuses me is that those jos that Americans won't do include high paying, skilled jobs, as well as lower and mid management.
A larger work force is a stronger country.
So, Jammersix, do you hire illegals? Hmmmm?
Biker
CAnnoneer
Member
Jammer Six,
Papieren bitte!
Papieren bitte!
RocketMan
Member
How many actually want to become American citizens? How many actually care? I suspect very few.
I'm betting many would become American citizens in name only, still tendering their first (or only) real loyalties to Mexico.
RocketMan
Member
Ezekiel,
You missed the point completely. And thanks for slamming NASCAR fans. Nice broad elitist brush strokes, fellah.
Folks cannot afford to work $6 an hours jobs where they used to be paid $18 for the same work. Illegal immigration distorts wage/productivity ratios in every industry it enters. It is no longer limited to "jobs Americans are too lazy to do."
Illegal immigrants are finding their way into construction work, electrical assembly, onto factory floors, into warehouses, auto repair, and other places where jobs used to pay productive workers a good wage. Hell, they've even started repairing aircraft for national airlines (witness the recent II bust in North Carolina).
It is a much larger problem than many are willing to admit. Illegals aren't just mowing lawns or picking fruit anymore.
And as long as there are no real sanctions for employers who decide to hire illegals over citizens or legal residents, the problem will only get worse.
(Yeah, there are laws against hiring illegals, but are they enforced in more than a token manner? Nope.)
Ezekiel
Member
Say what you will: I railed against beer-swillers (like myself), too. Besides, any so-called driving sport that merely involves turning left is LAME. That's not elitist, that's truth.
Being paid $18 hourly to turn a screw at any given UAW plant indicates that wage/productivity ratios were off long before immigration enters the equation. Folks cannot afford the decrease because they have been unwise and do nt possess requisite skills to effectively compete at other jobs. Such is their fault, not someone else's.
Oh, I see. So long as they do not intrude into "demeaning" and "subserviant" positions, it's okay? (Basically, jobs citizens do not desire.) Ridiculous! Why? Because -- while many noncompetitive and sloth-like folks [most against multiculturalism fear this in some manner] want to close our borders in an isolationist and nationalistic frenzy -- they fail to take into account that the standard of "unintended consequences" will far outway any potential "gains" to be made by hardcore mobilizing against border entry.
No, I am just willing to approach it from outside a box of venomous protectionism.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the concept that some $$$ (millions, if not billions or trillions!) is being "lost" in this translation. I just firmly believe substantially more funds will be lost -- along with our percieved national identity as a "free country" -- if we knee-jerk this approach into tightly controlled (with papers!) rhetoric.
Maybe I'm wrong
I still believe in punishing people who break the law, not giving them special privilages over the people trying to come here legally.
I find it shameful and a disgrace that any member of the executive branch, from the chiefs of police to the POTUS has willfully done very little to stop illegal immigration and some have gone as far as aiding the illegals. IMO
Bush will probably cave into the left and throw a bunch of money towards the border states, create some new agencies, and mask a blanket anesty.
I have lost faith in almost all our politicians.
I still believe in punishing people who break the law, not giving them special privilages over the people trying to come here legally.
I find it shameful and a disgrace that any member of the executive branch, from the chiefs of police to the POTUS has willfully done very little to stop illegal immigration and some have gone as far as aiding the illegals. IMO
Bush will probably cave into the left and throw a bunch of money towards the border states, create some new agencies, and mask a blanket anesty.
I have lost faith in almost all our politicians.
longeyes
member
There's something deeply ironic about a statement like this on a forum dedicated to self-protection.
There's laissez-faire economics and there's warrior economics. We'll see which, in the longer run, prevails.
Jammer Six
member
They're not "$18 an hour" jobs.
They're jobs.
The moment someone is willing to do the same job for $6 an hour, they become $6 an hour jobs.
And it most certainly IS limited to jobs Americans are too lazy to do.
Lately, those jobs have been things like carpenter and carpenter's foreman.
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