Stolen at gun show?

[Otherguy Overby]

Last time I heard it was a crime to possess a stolen firearm. Since you haven't been charged, the cop is gaming you.

Report the rifle as stolen to the cops/ATF and see what happens.

 

[isp2605]

"Since you haven't been charged, the cop is gaming you"

He explained how he came in possession of the firearm. Just because it turned up stolen does not mean he would be charged with a crime. In my career I recovered numerous stolen weapons and property in similar circumstances. Not once did we ever charge the person because they could legitimately explain how they came in possession.

 

[UnintendedConsequences]

Contact the manufacturer and the BATFE

I strongly recommend you contact Marlin Firearms Company as well as report the incident to the BATFE because what this LEO did does not sound on the level. I know of more than one local deputy who has helped himself to firearms that weren't theirs because they ran a scam along the lines of the owner either giving up their firearms or they would be arrested for something that would put them away for years. Fortunately most of that went away with a new sheriff though I am still jaded.

I did have a gun show organizer act like a horse's rectal area when I purchased a gun from a dealer at a gun show though. He threatened to confiscate my rifle as I went out the door because the dealer had forgotten to put a small colored sticker on the box it was in before I left his table. While I understand the security concerns, I told the man as I went to go out the door again that because of his jerked attitude (rather than him asking me politely to get a sticker) I would not patronize any future shows organized by his organization (Elks Lodge) and I would also tell everyone I met about how rudely they would be treated at their shows. He looked at me like he didn't give a care.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

isp2605:
"Since you haven't been charged, the cop is gaming you"

He explained how he came in possession of the firearm. Just because it turned up stolen does not mean he would be charged with a crime. In my career I recovered numerous stolen weapons and property in similar circumstances. Not once did we ever charge the person because they could legitimately explain how they came in possession.

Sorry, according to the thread, the cop in question left out the letters in the serial number when he ran it.

IOW, if one leaves out the letters in a serial number, I've a 3rd generation Glock with a three digit serial number consiting of the same number... like 222.

I've also a 1911 variant with a serial number of 224X. Any bets that will turn up on someone's stolen list? I bought it new from an FFL I know who I'd had order it from the manufacturer who I also know.

 

[Lupinus]

that is because he in all likelyhood didn't care

Call whoever you can, this does not sound on the up and up one bit. Checking the numbers of every gun coming in? The second he asked I would have turned around and left.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

I have what may be a stupid question. Do they "run" every gun that goes into a show in L.V.? If they do, it must take days to get set up.
If not every gun, why did they run yours?

not sure, but i did a gun show on an Indian Reservation in Laughlin in 2004. the tribal police ran every gun that went in the front door by non-exhibitors.

some lady who was implying she was "working with the ATF" (really was an employee of CCS Gunsmithing in Las Vegas, who was the authorized "transfer dealer" of the show) told me i had to turn over a list of all serial numbers of my inventory i brought there so they could check it.

i was like, "sure, no problem, just let me finish setting up." yeah right, like im going to give someone who doesn't even have the authority to make me surrender this information a complete list of my inventory, down to the serial numbers, of the weapons i brought there for sale. and i was an FFL in Nevada. needless to say they never came back and i never gave it to them.

if she demanded them i would have told her that the only one who could lawfully demand such a thing would be a peace officer with a subpoena duces tecum or valid search warrant, or an ATF agent performing either a criminal investigation or an annual inspection.

alot of dealers complained about this lady who was telling the dealers that she was "working closely with the ATF." she was a black female, light skinned, in her mid 30's, about 5'6" tall and slender.

just because of that incident i would never give them any business, like using them as a transfer dealer, etc.

and it was on the Fort Mojave Indian Reservation, i forget the name of the hotel/casino but its the only one on the reservation. not sure if the Tribal Police have any special authority to be running all these guns but oh well, not like im ever going back there.

 

[isp2605]

"Sorry, according to the thread, the cop in question left out the letters in the serial number when he ran it."

You are missing my point. You said "Last time I heard it was a crime to possess a stolen firearm. Since you haven't been charged, the cop is gaming you." My response was just because he was in possession of a stolen gun does not mean that he would be charged. If he can adequately explain how he came in possession of the firearm, and obviously he can, then he wouldn't be charged. He did not intentionally possess a stolen firearm.

 

[deadin]

Spreadfire,
The casino you are thinking of is Avi. Been there many times. As for the Tribal Police, they can do pretty much what they want on the reservation, but I've never heard of them checking every gun in a show. Sounds to me like the lady was trying to get ahead of the game by "pre-checking" for hot guns on everything that "might" be sold and "might" be run through their books. I think the "working with the BATFE" was a stretching of the truth to make her sound more important. After all, whenever you fill out a 4473, you are "working with the BATFE" (kind of )
I like the way you handled it. Just agree and then ignore. If they insisted (and showed up with someone in authority, not just some gunstore flunky), I think I would have packed up and left.

Dean

 

[flieger]

Well well well....The plot thickens

Thanks to cassandrasdaddy's post I called Marlin. I spoke with the same person that the detective did, but got an entirely different story from what he told me. I was told that without the W prefix, that number is meaningless. This was my contention from the get-go.

Interestingly enough, he mentioned that it was a special ATF number he called. I got the same gal by calling the customer service number. Hmmmmm.

I guess I need to call the FBI back, but they're pretty busy investigating other LVPD officers right now!

Once again guys, thanks for all the help.

 

[AJAX22]

Nail that guy to the wall, Dirty cops give all of law enforcement a bad name, and its not fair to a lot of good honest underpaid civil servents to let a few jerks ruin everything that the majority work for.

this is one time you might want to bring in the 800 lbs gorilla out of the cage, let the feds and internal afairs loose on the guy.

 

[flieger]

It seems legit after all.

I just spoke with an officer in Houston who confirmed the theft of the gun in question. He is going to try and contact the rightful owner, who now lives in Dallas and was only 19 when the gun was stolen. So he's 45 now and will be real happy to get his Marlin back in the same condition he remembered it to be in.

The officer also advised me that if he is unable to contact the rightful owner, he intends to clear it from the NCIC database. Gotta love folks down there in "Gun Country". So I may still have a shot, albeit a long one.

 

[Borachon]

Statute of Limitations doesn't apply on stolen guns? Just curious about that.

I've heard it said that once a gun passes into a pawnshop and on to a third party buyer that it is then again a legal gun because the person who bought it bought it from the pawnshop. Is this not true? Also, like I say, isn't there a statute of limitations on how long a piece of property is stolen? Like after 1980 or so this gun in question should have no longer been considered as stolen.

 

[ChestyP]

All this discussion and accusation...

and golly, it was a stolen gun after all.

An dof course alpha characters can be added to the NICS stolen firearm data base... almost half of any S&W serial number is alpha.

 

[sparx]

I've heard it said that once a gun passes into a pawnshop and on to a third party buyer that it is then again a legal gun because the person who bought it bought it from the pawnshop. Is this not true?

No. The person buying it from the pawnshop might not be held liable for possession of stolen property, but the property itself would still be considered stolen. The pawnshop owner of course could be held liable, as they are supposed to check to see if it's stolen before they sell it.

Also, like I say, isn't there a statute of limitations on how long a piece of property is stolen? Like after 1980 or so this gun in question should have no longer been considered as stolen.

No. There would be a statute of limitations on the theft of the gun (the act), but not on the property itself that was stolen. And, even the act depends on whether it was a felony (or part of one) or not. Felony acts have no statute of limitations.

 

[Reyn]

Im curious as to when someone is going to post a positive comment for a COP finding a stolen gun and making an attempt to contact the original owner as opposed to jumping to conclusions and calling him crooked.

 

[UnintendedConsequences]

My view

That would be because there are more bad apple cops doing things than there are good cops counteracting that image. Perhaps someone else has a large number of good cops where they live. I don't.

<Way off-topic story removed by Art>

 

[dodge]

Altough this doesn't have anything to do with guns. Just recently I tried to renew the registration on my car and was unable to because it was reported stolen in Phila. This car to the best of my knowledge has never been in Phila. I had to call the PD there and get it straighten out. Come to find out the officer who token the report entered the plate number wrong into the system. After several phone calls to the PD and Penn DOT I was able to get it straighten out enough that I was able to renew the plates. I'm betting the the officer enetered the wrong number and it came up stolen.

 

[Reyn]

Unintended consequences id like to hear the oher side of the story also. Im sure it being your friend is playing a major role in your opinion. There is no doubt there are corrupt cops just like any profession. There are crooked doctors also but i bet you wouldnt heisitate to visit one if your life depended on it. I just think its a shame a cop recovered a stolen firearm and is making an attempt to contact the original owner and still gets badmouthed. I just wonder how the tables would be turned if the firearm stolen was stolen from a member here.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

That would be because there are more bad apple cops doing things than there are good cops counteracting that image.

That's absolutely untrue.

 

[RNB65]

Last time I heard it was a crime to possess a stolen firearm. Since you haven't been charged, the cop is gaming you.

It's not a crime if you bought the item in good faith without knowledge that it was stolen. However, in most cases the stolen property will be taken away and returned to the rightful owner without compensation to you.

 

[NukemJim]

That would be because there are more bad apple cops doing things than there are good cops counteracting that image.

Sorry, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Of course there are bad cops, any profession has it's mix of good and bad. I live in Chicagoland and have seen a CPD officer take a bribe. But I've seen many more CPD help me or others.

Just my experience.

NukemJim

 

[Don Gwinn]

I don't know how I'd survive from day to day if there were more bad cops than good.

Anyway, this is one of those "asked-and-answered" type things. The actual subject of discussion in this thread is essentially over. The officer, suspicious actions and all, turned out to be correct. A debate over whether police officers are good or bad doesn't really have a place here.

UC, if you have some evidence of your claims, you can always post it--but if the thread turns into a hatefest or people start flaming, it will be closed. I'm sorry if that makes it hard for you to discuss a legitimate civil rights concern.

The name of the county or, better yet, a link to a media report corroborating your story would be a good start.