Straighten out Folded crimps

[christcorp]

Quick question. I am reloading 12 gauge. I like and prefer to do a roll crimp. I was given a large box of once fired hulls. All of them were folded/star crimped. I know I can trim the hulls being I'm roll crimping them, but trimming is a waste of time and the hull in my opinion. Basically it only gets reloaded one time.

I'm wanting to not trim, but smooth out the folded crimp so it's close to like before it was ever crimped. This way I can fill the space as needed; roll crimp it; and leave enough room for the next reload. I've seen a youtube video where a guy put the hull on a snug 3/4" pipe and heated it "Carefully" with a small butane torch to soften the hull. Then while pliable, he'd let it cool over a 3/4" dowel or similar.

Is this about the only method; or does someone else do something different.
Thanks
Mike

 

[Englishmn]

I have a smooth cone you can chuck in a drill and push hull on it the friction heats and smoothes out the folds.
Don't remember what its called think I bought it from midway.

 

[NMexJim]

Removing Fold Crimp from Plastic Hulls (TIS218)
YouTube
The Idahoan Show

He's made one from steel. I made one from a hardwood dowel.

 

[mokin]

I don't know if this will work or is what you're looking for, but it fits the description of the items described above. I've wondered about removing the crimps as well.

Power Hull Skiver 10ga - 20ga-ballisticproducts.com

 

[.38 Special]

"Never try to roll crimp a hull that previously had a fold crimp. The resulting roll crimp will not be satisfactory." That's from the Ballistic Products website. And, at least in my limited experience, is the truth. I haven't found anything that works other than trimming.

 

[mokin]

"Never try to roll crimp a hull that previously had a fold crimp. The resulting roll crimp will not be satisfactory." That's from the Ballistic Products website. And, at least in my limited experience, is the truth. I haven't found anything that works other than trimming.

The Curmudgeon?

 

[christcorp]

"Never try to roll crimp a hull that previously had a fold crimp. The resulting roll crimp will not be satisfactory." That's from the Ballistic Products website. And, at least in my limited experience, is the truth. I haven't found anything that works other than trimming.

And I usually trim also. But it seems that once I trim it once and reload it, it's a little short to reload again. Do you run into this also, or do you only reload a hull once?

 

[.38 Special]

And I usually trim also. But it seems that once I trim it once and reload it, it's a little short to reload again. Do you run into this also, or do you only reload a hull once?

I use Ballistic Products data for 2 1/2" shells, and so far have not gotten myself into any sort of trouble.

 

[.38 Special]

The Curmudgeon?

Kind of reads like it, but the article is not credited, as far as I can tell.

 

[christcorp]

The Curmudgeon?

LOL. I can't see, if the fold crimp was mostly flattened out, how it would be a problem roll crimping it. The main advantage to a roll crimp, is that there's usually some sort of over shot card on top. "Unless it's a slug type shot". And as long as the roll crimp is snug on the over shot card, it should perform fine. I don't worry about water and such, just not having every pop out in a pump action because of recoil.

 

[christcorp]

I use Ballistic Products data for 2 1/2" shells, and so far have not gotten myself into any sort of trouble.

Irrelevant of the size of the shell, once you roll crimp it, have you found that you can simply re-roll crimp or do you need to trim it again. Hence the reason for flattening out a fold crimp. Minus any break down in the hull itself, starting with an extra 1/4" or more, allows for a couple more crimps.

I shoot mainly factory loads, but I guess the big question is: If you trim and prep the hull; however that may be for a roll crimp; and everything goes well; and then you fire the round; can you simply re-roll crimp that shell again or do you need to trim some more again?

Thanks
Mike

 

[.38 Special]

My issue was that even using the Spin Doctor didn't take out enough of the fold crimp, and it would buckle when trying to use the roll crimper. I suppose it "sort of" worked, but the crimps were ugly and irregular, to the point that they probably affected performance. Maybe the torch/dowel trick would work better, but I'm just not willing to put in that much work on fired plastic hulls!

 

[.38 Special]

Irrelevant of the size of the shell, once you roll crimp it, have you found that you can simply re-roll crimp or do you need to trim it again. Hence the reason for flattening out a fold crimp. Minus any break down in the hull itself, starting with an extra 1/4" or more, allows for a couple more crimps.

I shoot mainly factory loads, but I guess the big question is: If you trim and prep the hull; however that may be for a roll crimp; and everything goes well; and then you fire the round; can you simply re-roll crimp that shell again or do you need to trim some more again?

Thanks
Mike

Ah, I see. No, I don't trim after a shell has been roll crimped. I recondition the hull with the Spin Doctor after each firing, and if the hull still looks good, I just load and crimp again in the same way.

I will say that there is more hull loss when roll crimping, in my experience. The hulls are more likely to be damaged during firing , and are more likely to crack during reloading. I think a Spin Doctor or similar really helps - I think it probably doubles the life of the hull - but I still find that two or three loadings is about the best I can hope for, and a lot of them don't go that long. I personally have moved to paper hulls for roll crimping, and when I use previously star crimped plastic hulls, I revert to star crimping for the reloads.

 

[JJFitch]

I have a smooth cone you can chuck in a drill and push hull on it the friction heats and smoothes out the folds.
Don't remember what its called think I bought it from midway.

PM your address and I'll send you one for the cost of shipping! ($4.50 I think!)

Smiles,

 

[christcorp]

Ah, I see. No, I don't trim after a shell has been roll crimped. I recondition the hull with the Spin Doctor after each firing, and if the hull still looks good, I just load and crimp again in the same way.

I will say that there is more hull loss when roll crimping, in my experience. The hulls are more likely to be damaged during firing , and are more likely to crack during reloading. I think a Spin Doctor or similar really helps - I think it probably doubles the life of the hull - but I still find that two or three loadings is about the best I can hope for, and a lot of them don't go that long. I personally have moved to paper hulls for roll crimping, and when I use previously star crimped plastic hulls, I revert to star crimping for the reloads.

Gotcha. That's good to know that I can Re-Roll crimp one that has been roll crimped previously. In that case, I don't mind trimming. I'll have to do some experimenting. Like I said, I got a box a once fired hulls from a friend; all 2 3/4 and fold/star crimped. I knew I could just trim them, but I was hoping I could get another couple reloads out of them with the extra length not trimming them.

I'm also getting more into black powder shotshell reloading. Being I roll crimp anyway, it's not a big difference. Black powder is very forgiving in reloading, but generally requires a roll crimp. There's a lot more powder "Volume", so roll crimping is much easier. Anyway....;. that's why we do this stuff. For the fun. Thanks again for all the info.
Mike

 

[.38 Special]

Gotcha. That's good to know that I can Re-Roll crimp one that has been roll crimped previously. In that case, I don't mind trimming. I'll have to do some experimenting. Like I said, I got a box a once fired hulls from a friend; all 2 3/4 and fold/star crimped. I knew I could just trim them, but I was hoping I could get another couple reloads out of them with the extra length not trimming them.

I'm also getting more into black powder shotshell reloading. Being I roll crimp anyway, it's not a big difference. Black powder is very forgiving in reloading, but generally requires a roll crimp. There's a lot more powder "Volume", so roll crimping is much easier. Anyway....;. that's why we do this stuff. For the fun. Thanks again for all the info.
Mike

Friend!

The great majority of my shotshell loading is with black powder, and I have switched over to paper hulls for most of it. BP is pretty tough on plastic hulls, and I really don't like the way plastic shot cups etc. foul the bore. The paper hulls take to roll crimping much more easily and last a lot longer. I have gotten half-a-dozen loads from roll crimped paper, and then re-waxed them and kept going. I also use brass, which seem to last forever, but do require some off-the-wall techniques and also don't eject as cleanly from my double. As for plastic, I reserve them exclusively for smokeless loads now and don't plan to change.

 

[NMexJim]

Friend!

The great majority of my shotshell loading is with black powder, and I have switched over to paper hulls for most of it. BP is pretty tough on plastic hulls, and I really don't like the way plastic shot cups etc. foul the bore. The paper hulls take to roll crimping much more easily and last a lot longer. I have gotten half-a-dozen loads from roll crimped paper, and then re-waxed them and kept going. I also use brass, which seem to last forever, but do require some off-the-wall techniques and also don't eject as cleanly from my double. As for plastic, I reserve them exclusively for smokeless loads now and don't plan to change.

Paper hull don't grow on tree.

 

[WestKentucky]

My 16ga roll crimp tool (drill press attachment) takes a couple shells to heat up but after the first couple it seems to straighten out the folds well enough. I haven’t shot a whole lot of them but thy haven’t come loose accidentally either. They may not look as nice as a factory roll crimp but they are functional and that’s what really matters to me. I do have some fresh clear cheddite hulls to load so I can get a better firsthand comparison. I’m only trimming off 1/8” so I still have plenty fold to deal with when I crimp, but so far it’s not been an issue.

 

[.38 Special]

Paper hull don't grow on tree.

They're around. Ballistic Products has once-fired Federals in stock at the moment. I bought a thousand new Cheddite hulls a few years ago and figure that's all I will ever need.

 

[christcorp]

Sort of a followup question. If I use a 2 3/4 hull; and I want/prefer to roll crimp it; instead of trimming the hull, could I just add some cushion wads, or similar filler to raise the shot cup/wad so that the overshot card was within about the 1/4 inch so it can be roll crimped. Just looking at options instead of trimming the hulls. I experimented with straightening out some hulls that are folded/star crimped, and it seems pretty easy and effective.

But I was looking at different over powder cards, cork wads, cushion wads, and other things I have laying around. Just thinking it would be easier to reload with a roll crimp if I didn't have to trim. Based on the math, basically, the 2 3/4 shell would be closer to 2 1/2" instead of 2 1/4". More like a 3" shell that has been fold crimped.
Thoughts? Thanks
Mike