Strange going ons in a mall parking lot.

[Big Boy]

I'l warn you it's not that exciting of a story, mainly because there is thankfully no climatic ending. But here it is.

Last night after work, I drove over to the mall to return some unwanted christmas clothing.

Being around 6:45pm and it being January, it was pitch black. In fact while driving around the mall to the store that I needed to return the item at, I remember thinking "I can't believe how dark it is here" It seemed as though there were barely even any parking lot lights.

"No matter" I thought to myself. I knew it was a holiday, being the first of the year, and also being a Sunday I figured they would probably be closing earlier than normal. The parking lot is fairly empty compared to normal business hours, but still fairly populated. Being empty towards the front of the mall I easily get a front row spot, park, and head towards the door.

I check it, locked. No big deal, I'll do it some other time. I turn around to head towards my car. but there is a car coming, so I wait, as to not get run over. They stop. Being as there is a cross walk painted with reflective paint on the ground where I am standing, they stop. I think nothing of it, figuring they were just being nice and stopping to let me cross.

Here's where it gets weird. The car goes past me after I am through the cross walk and turns down the isle my car is facing across from. They then pull into the parking spot adjacent to my car, and on through that spot to be directly next to my car.

Now there was plenty of space for them to park, they could have even been a spot or two closer to the door if they wanted too. But they chose not only to park adjacent to me, but then to pull through and be next to me. And let me tell you, their car was parked a little crooked, and they were damn close to me too. Didn't seem like a routine parking job.

Being as I had just left work I didn't have my CCW on me, and even if I had brought it with me that day, it would have still been residing in the glove box.

Through the heavily tinted windows I could see the silhouette of three men, one driver, passenger, and one in the driver's side rear seat. I had my keys in my hands and was going as fast as possible, I got into my car pretty freaking quick, but at the same time, if they had wanted to, they had time to do something.

It would have been bad for me, as if the driver had gotten out we would be in immediate contact (they were that close) the driver's rear passenger would have been within arms reach, and the front passenger would have been able to cover me with a weapon from the over side of the car, completely out of my reach.

I stared into their windows from the moment they were pulling in the spot next to me, until I was in my car. Happened in probably less than three seconds but it seemed longer and my heart was racing. The second my butt was in the seat, my keys were in the ignition and I was out of there!

The way they were acting just screamed bad intentions. I don't know if maybe my "eye contact" helped, or if maybe I just got out of there quick enough, but I was scared.

Here's what I started thinking about when I got home though. What if I had my CCW? Surely they hadn't done anything to warrant drawing yet, but I can tell you my hand would be on it. But here's where the question comes in, If I had sat down in my car, at that point it would be virtually impossible to effectively draw.

But at the same time, had I stood there, in between my car, and my car door as cover, and was at some point forced to draw, I'm not sure any good would have come of it. Three targets to cover that close. And if they knew what they were doing the guy on the passengers side of the car would definitely be armed. Which would leave me with two potentially armed perps directly in my face, and another across from me who would pretty well free to do whatever he wanted to me.

In the end I definitely think just trying to get out of there would have been the best option, but still. Scary.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Is there any particular reason why you would not be able to leave your CCW in your vehicle, perhaps in a lockbox, while at work?

I can't carry in classrooms in my state, so I lock my pistol in my car inside a lockbox when I'm at school. But I make a point to put it back on as soon as I get in my car and lock the doors. I know there are going to be times and places we can't carry, but i try to minimize them as much as possible. As you've seen, even a trip to the mall after work could have been the time and place for your gunfight. Thankfully it wasn't and your awareness won the day.

 

[Big Boy]

I normally leave it in my glove box while at work, and I have the same mentality, being armed as often as possible. Lately I've gotten a little more lax though. For example if I had my ccw (which I normally do) but was coming from work, it would have still been in my glove box, as I wouldn't have considered walking back and forth 100 feet could have been that dangerous....I was wrong.

I think I need to buy a pocket revolver or something. Getting off work, I wouldn't have had my IWB holster on me, nor taken the time to put it on just for the drive home. With a pocket revolver it wouldn't have taken any effort to just slip it in my pocket while walking to the mall door.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The only way to have a gun when you need one is to have one all the time.

IIRC that's been said here a time or two before...

There are reasons why airweight concealed hammer J frames are so popular - they're good 'all the time' guns.

 

[Crusader103]

I'm not trying to be insulting but if you do not feel that you could effectively engage assailants in that environment, you should perhaps look into a defensive course that involves a fair amount of close quarters work, i.e. the "Speed Rock" and multiple threat engagement. Upon handling the closest two threats training in the use of a vehicle as cover while moving and engaging the third opponent on the other side of the vehicle, either over the vehicle, through the windows, or even under as the case may be would also be worthwhile.

Should you already be inside, you should also be well versed in drawing your weapon while seated, either from your CCW position or from a readily accessible position in your car. As a quick note, I have found that many (while attempting to draw from CCW in a vehicle) will naturally lean further into their car which traps most weapons carried at 3-5 o'clock. In actuality, one should be leaning into the assailant in a strong response, allowing a better grasp on the weapon while at the same time concealing the draw.

I could go into greater detail about tactics, and I'm sure some will, but there is no reason why you should not be completely ready to address one or more threats in a close quarters environment.

Three on one is not a death wish if you are properly trained. Even if it were a strong defense would still beat a weak defense. Truly, trained to the proper level, it would actually be a death wish for the three assailants in this scenario..... and no, I am not superman. A fast and resounding response that will likely surprise the intended aggressors is not just possible in good stories but in reality as well.

Of course, everything above is based on the situation having had developed to that level of threat, but I am glad that it did not.

 

[Averageman]

The easiest solution is to move your vehicle. If I get a bad feeling in a parking lot, I dont leave the Truck I move it.
I go in very early to work and have had some enlightening experiances getting gas or going in to the local 24 hr store. I stay in my truck and look around a bit before I turn off the engine or get out.

 

[David E]

"when it's least expected, you're elected." (or in this case, "selected")

"when 'it' happens, there is no time to get ready, you must be ready."

Leaving a gun at home does you little good unless you're at home, at best. But a lot of people think having a gun in the car is "good enough" for defense, but not if we're out of the car when 'it' happens.

Having a gun in the car and then leaving it there is laziness and complacency raising their ugly heads in tandem.

Having a holster you can't easily draw from seated shows either a poor holster choice or lack of practice. I have no problem drawing from an IWB while seated, belted in or not.

A pocket holster isn't easy to draw from while seated, but there are ways to make it happen, so practice them.

 

[MedWheeler]

I cannot carry at work, either, and my uniform leaves no option to carry on the belt while traveling to and from without changing attire. So, I pocket-carry my P32 while going to and from.
In that situation, I'm not sure I would have returned just then to the car. They may have been hoping to catch an employee (maybe even a female) getting off work, tired, and not paying attention, to target. I might have strolled about some looking for some security patrol; most malls have it inside and out around the clock. This is based on my knowledge of them here where I live.) If the hairs on the back of my neck were truly standing at attention, and I was unarmed (and maybe even if I wasn't), I might have even called LE to do a drive through..

 

[JColdIron]

I think if I had a car full of people zip into a space uncomfortably close to my driver door I would suddenly remember I had forgotten something in the mall and returned to it. Waiting until they got out or left the area before returning to my car.

If I felt they were up to no good I would also notify mall security. Might not help you but it might help the next person.

 

[heeler]

I too would have felt fear in that scenario.
Everything that reeks of a possible threat was there for any reasonably thinking person.
Dark parking lot,acres of parking space and they pulled right up next to your vehicle,heavily tinted glass windows,three dudes...NO THANKS!!
Since the store was closed even if I had my handgun I would have entered on the passenger side of my vehicle no matter the hassle to climb over the console to get in the drivers seat and get out of there.
Of course even though no threat emerged you certainly would not have been justified pulling your gun out in plain view.
But my hand would certainly be on it or very close to it.
I hate reading stuff like this because living here in a big city stuff truely does happen like this all to often and too many times with the dudes truely being a threat and going through with their felonious plans.

 

[JustinJ]

They aren't generally considered the best IWB but there are numerous decent holsters that you can insert while seated in a car. I do it all the time as i can't carry at work either.

I'm not trying to be insulting but if you do not feel that you could effectively engage assailants in that environment, you should perhaps look into a defensive course that involves a fair amount of close quarters work, i.e. the "Speed Rock" and multiple threat engagement. Upon handling the closest two threats training in the use of a vehicle as cover while moving and engaging the third opponent on the other side of the vehicle, either over the vehicle, through the windows, or even under as the case may be would also be worthwhile.

I agree with the "oh i forgot something" idea. I don't care what weekend shooting class you've been through or even if you're a super Navey SEAL. Anybody who feels secure engaging three possible unknown attackers in a situation like that is not being realistic. The simple fact that you don't know their intentions means that you can't draw until they attack and if they choose to do so as you are entering your vehicle you're chances of escaping alive have become even lower.

 

[heeler]

The problem with going back to the store is that it was closed.
All going back to the store front door would have done is distance him from their car until they started it up and drove back his way and if that happened he would have been basically naked.
No gun,no cover,no where to go.
Luckily nothing bad happened either way.

 

[JustinJ]

The problem with going back to the store is that it was closed.
All going back to the store front door would have done is distance him from their car until they started it up and drove back his way and if that happened he would have been basically naked.
No gun,no cover,no where to go.
Luckily nothing bad happened either way.

Possibly but it's hard to say without knowing the layout. I can think of cover near the entrances of a couple of my local malls but at least going back may convince them he is going else where and may at least disrupt their plan to attack as he is getting into his car. Placing a call on his cell phone as soon as they drove up, or at least pretending to, would also be a good idea as they may suspect he has given somebody their license plate or even called the cops.

 

[george29]

With a pocket revolver it wouldn't have taken any effort to just slip it in my pocket while walking to the mall door.

Glasshoppa is learning.

 

[gp911]

My fiancee bought me a Keltec P3AT for Christmas at my brother's urging and honestly it enhanced my carrying a good bit because it slips into pockets so well l carry that thing everywhere! I have a G23 & G21SF that l carry in general, but that little Keltec is so nice for pocket carry, and l can carry it crossdraw in a vehicle just by slipping it in my weakside pocket. If you already carry a mousegun l'd suggest just taking this incident as a lesson learned & alter your plans accordingly.

 

[BBQLS1]

As it had been mentioned, a small snub revolver can be locked in the car until after work where it can be slipped in the pocket without much effort. Part of the reason I carry one often. Lots of power, small package, shape will print less than an auto... just a good gun to have.

 

[Big Boy]

Just as a side note, no matter how aware you are (obviously I knew and was aware of what was happening) your mind can't start to process the threat until they do something shady. i.e. pull up right next to my drivers door as I was getting in.

There were literally only two options at that point. Draw a gun (which I didn't have and also wouldn't be legal or prudent on the "suspicion" of threat) or get in the car and ****.

I chose the latter. But what I was identifying with this story was my obvious lake of prudence. Being prepared in case things had gone wrong. I think my best solution is to get a pocket revolver, which I plan to do. But even then, I was unprepared, when I may have needed to be more than ready to deal with the threat.

Situational awareness is a great thing, and I was on top of that, but it can't always save you. Luckily in this situation it did.

 

[Isaac-1]

It depends on local laws, style of vehicle, etc., but how about keeping a gun in a velcro holster inside the trunk of the car, most modern cars have a remote with a trunk release button. It would give you the option of doing something unexpected (assuming your not carrying an armload of goods). I can see lots of times where this could be the quickest way for a person that can't carry for whatever reason to be armed quickly as they approached their vehicles if needed.

Ike

 

[altitude_19]

NOT HELPFUL: "Dude you need more training so you can take on those three guys like rambo."
Maybe helpful: You were outgunned any which way you slice it. You acknowledge you would have been screwed if something went down (I'm inclined to agree). Avoidance would have been better. Cops have been called for less. I would have fled and called for help. The best battle is the one you never have to fight.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Your mall trip ended better than my mall trip. My wife has since convinced me to park out in the boonies where no one is likely to be hiding near the vehicle. If anyone is parked close to the vehicle, Yellow turns Orange. If I'm out of the car, I'm carrying. If I'm in the car, I'm carrying. My second primary rides in a crossdraw spring holster so the seatbelt won't get in my way.

A pocket revolver sounds like just the ticket. Glad it turned out all right.

ECS

 

[ColdDeadHand]

"Being as I had just left work I didn't have my CCW on me, and even if I had brought it with me that day, it would have still been residing in the glove box."

Thank you for the lesson. I'm putting this on a little post-it note inside my front door.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

NOT HELPFUL: "Dude you need more training so you can take on those three guys like rambo."
Maybe helpful: You were outgunned any which way you slice it. You acknowledge you would have been screwed if something went down (I'm inclined to agree). Avoidance would have been better. Cops have been called for less. I would have fled and called for help. The best battle is the one you never have to fight.

Exactly what crime would you have reported upon calling the cops? A mean look? Making you scared? The fact is, nothing happened. It could have, but it didn't. What would you have said to the police to get them to send a car? Would you be OK waiting in the parking lot a few hours for them to get off of real calls to fill out a suspicious person report?

Avoidance is not always possible, or ever preferable. You cannot spend your life hiding in your house. People go shopping, people walk in parking lots. People put gas in their cars, sometimes when it's dark out. That's life. You do what you can to minimize risk and be aware of the risk that is still left. But you cannot get rid of it all, and you cannot live your life hiding from it. Would you really suggest that the OP drive home and come back to do what he needs to do when it's not as scary? What if there's a group of kids in the parking lot dressed like "gangsters". Leave and come back a third time?

At some point, when do you say "I'm going to go do what I want, live my life, minimize as much risk as I can, but accept that which I cannot"?

Careful you don't avoid life while you're avoiding risk. It's not about being a badarse or rambo. It's about not letting the look of a car or the stare from some punks control when you can and can't go to the mall.

 

[altitude_19]

Exactly what crime would you have reported upon calling the cops?

None. But a crime need not be in progress to call the police.

What would you have said to the police to get them to send a car?

"I think someone is waiting for me by my car. It's parked outside xxxxxx entrance to the mall. Do you have a car nearby that could make a pass through the lot?"

Would you be OK waiting in the parking lot a few hours for them to get off of real calls to fill out a suspicious person report?

Now I have questions for you: What city did this take place in? What is the local PD's authorized strength? What's their average response time? Oh? You don't know? Interesting... But, I'll lend some logic to your supposition; if those three upstanding young men are still parked next to my car 2 hours after I first spotted them, yeah...I might be okay waiting. They clearly aren't there to shop if they don't get out of the vehicle.

Avoidance is not always possible, or ever preferable.

Think I misread the OP's first post (didn't catch the part about the mall doors being locked). It appears it wasn't possible this time. Certainly a point to encourage ALWAYS being armed if at all possible.

At some point, when do you say "I'm going to go do what I want, live my life, minimize as much risk as I can, but accept that which I cannot"?

Uhhh...I say it "at some point"...apparently.

It's about not letting the look of a car or the stare from some punks control when you can and can't go to the mall.

OP was leaving the mall.

 

[Prophet]

"Victims of crime often sense that something is wrong in the first moments of encountering their attackers but feel too socially inhibited to create the necessary distance and escape." -Don't remember where I heard this.

Obviously since you were alone, the social aspect wasn't there. However, I feel you did the best that you could since the mall or whatever was locked; other than having a weapon on you. I'd get something that you'd feel comfortable carrying all day every day.

 

[robMaine]

Sounds like you did the right thing given your scenario. Not to be the naive person, but ever think maybe they pulled in close to ask of the store was open, saw your stare and alert state and decided it better not to approach you?