Strange problem with Dan Wesson 9mm

[mikemyers]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but I'm trying to help a friend with a 9mm Dan Wesson. In his words:

This has been to happening recently … At least once in 5 shots … I’ll pull the trigger, gun fires, slide would come back, but does not go fully forward into battery. The slide stop doesn’t engage … but the slide “locks up” in the position you see in the attached pic.

When in the position you see in the attached pic, I can’t push the slide forward … but I can pull it back … and then it will then go forward into battery

I changed magazines and took shots. Same thing
I changed to an empty mag. Same thing

I took the mag out … and even then … the same thing happened!

Today I took the gun apart, cleaned it meticulously, put a drop of my new supply of Wilson Ultima Lube II here and there where it needs to go … and …
… on the first manual drawback of the slide, it happened again … with no magazine in the gun. So I took this pic.

Any ideas??
​

 

[rcmodel]

Could be one or more of several things.

1. Frames rails galled from lack of lube.
2. Bottom of slide galled where the disconnector or hammer rub on it.
3. Broken or mis-fit barrel link causing the barrel to rub on the top inside of the slide.
4. Metal frags from manufacturing floating around inside the gun binding it up.
5. Broken & stacked up recoil spring binding inside the dust cover.

There is nothing else inside the gun that can lock the slide back without the slide stop doing it.

 

[bullzeye8]

That is really weird. I would suggest contacting dan wesson about this.

 

[Snowdog]

Has he tried manually cycling the slide on the frame with the barrel bushing and recoil spring removed to see if he can feel any unwarranted resistance? Any unusual wear on the barrel bushing around the recoil spring guide rod?

 

[Lucky Derby]

DW is very specific about the 500 round break in, the cleanings at 50 round intervals, and how much and what type of lube to use DURING this period. They warn that this, galling, can happen if not followed. At this point the only remedy is to contact DW. I recommend talking with Keith at DW. They will take care of it.

 

[drband]

Break in is key on DWs. Has it been broken in as instructed? If so, a trip back to the mothership is in order. If not broken in, follow the manufacturer directions (CLEAN & lube the rails heavily every 50 rounds thru 500). My DW Heritage smoothed out nicely between 300-400 rounds. I noted a fair amount of residue coming off the rails until that time. Since then, nothing, and it feels like the slide rides on ball bearings! Good luck with the DW.

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks for the advice. I will pass everything on to him.

"a trip back to the mothership" .....Beautifully said!!!

 

[GZOh]

Call Dan Wesson (607-336-1174)... and ask for Glenn.
That's what a WARRANTY is for!

 

[Olympus]

Did you use the oil that came with the gun until it was gone first? If not, that's why you're having that problem.

 

[mikemyers]

I showed him this thread, and I think he's about to send the gun back to "the mothership" (thanks, drband!). I think he's mostly been using Wilson lube.

I haven't seen it, and probably won't get a chance to if he sends it back, but the way he describes it, it sounds to me more like it's hitting something, rather than getting stuck because two surfaces are binding. I know very little about this gun, but other than the slide stop, is there anything else that could act like a "stop"?

To 'Olympus', I don't think he's shot the gun nearly enough to use up any oil that may or may not have come with the gun - I don't even know if he got any special oil with it. Are there any parts on this gun, that are different from say, a Wilson, that require a special oil or grease? If so, why? Are the materials so different?

 

[Shipwreck]

To 'Olympus', I don't think he's shot the gun nearly enough to use up any oil that may or may not have come with the gun -

So, he never cleaned and relubed the gun BEFORE shooting it the first time? I ALWAYS clean and relube ANY new gun before hitting the range. It's a must, IMHO.

I have two Dan Wessons, and I just use Breakfree CLP. I didn't use the factory oil for break in, but my two DWs run 100%

 

[mikemyers]

Hi, that's not what I wrote. I'm assuming it came with a container of oil that would last for a while, and I doubt he would have used it up by now. I wasn't there, and have no idea what oils did or didn't come with it. Anyway, all I was trying to say, is I don't think he has shot it all that much yet. It's less than a year old.

From the way he's told me what's going on, it sounds to me like it's "hitting something", not binding. It always stops in the same place, which also sounds like hitting something. If it was binding, shouldn't it do it every time? In his case, it's only every so often.

If it was binding, it should do it every time, and the slide probably would get stuck at a slightly different spot, and it should stick both opening and closing the slide. IMHO. ...but I never took Gun Detective 101, so what I think is irrelevant...

 

[Olympus]

I own the same gun. Every PM-9 comes with its own bottle of oil to be used first. The fit on these guns are so tight that they will bind and gall if you don't properly clean and use the factory provided oil first. This is a well documented issue on the 1911 forum.

The other possible cause would be the slide getting caught on the tip of the disconnector. But a trip back to the factory will fix whatever the issue is. Either way, the owner needs to be properly cleaning and using the supplied oil first until it runs out. These guns are incredibly tight fit guns. Normal cleaning and oiling is not sufficient, especially when one is brand new.

 

[mikemyers]

......The other possible cause would be the slide getting caught on the tip of the disconnector......

I emailed him last night. I wrote him that what he has told me sounds like something "hitting" something, not "binding". He has told me he can pull the slide back after it's stopped, with no effort, and to me that means it's not "bind and gall". I don't know which lubricant he has been using (I thought it was Wilson lube), but I copied your post and emailed it to him.

Your other suggestion, quoted up above, sounds to me like the kind of thing I suspect is going on - and it would allow the slide to be pulled back, afterwards, with no effort.

I'm pretty sure he'll be sending the gun back to DW, but if it's doing what you think, is there any way to confirm it by inspecting those parts? My advice last night was take everything apart, put on only the slide, and see if he can get it stuck. If not, add only one part at a time, and see when the problem develops. If I had it here with me (I don't), that's what I would be doing....

Is what you suggested a "known issue"with that gun, or is it something you suspect might be happening from what I've asked here?

 

[Olympus]

That's just something I would look at. Unless he's familiar with working on 1911s, I'd recommend just sending it straight back and letting someone with more knowledge address the issue.

 

[mikemyers]

He's very familiar with 1911 guns. He knows much more about them than I do, and he's VERY meticulous about keeping them lubricated and spotless. Since all his 1911's came new in the box, he has had very few "issues".

It's now 2015, and it's me that has the "wrong" attitude about all of these things. Ask Murf! When something seems wrong, I'm usually more interested in finding out what it is, than getting it fixed. I'd like to find out what's wrong, and what it takes to fix it, before letting anyone else do it. That's old school..... most people I know couldn't care less about "what" the issue might be, they just want to have someone fix it for them. That's 2015 thought, not "old school".

I'm guessing today or tomorrow he'll be sending the gun off to DW.

I'm not there, so all I know is what he tells me, but if it isn't "galling", it has to be something extremely obvious (once one knows where to look). :-/ ......it has to be either a part that is moving, or a part that touches a part that is moving. ......again, I'm thinking I'd like to take all the parts out, and re-assemble one part at a time, with different combinations of parts, to see when the gun starts getting stuck.

 

[Miky]

Weird that after pulling the slide back it goes forward. Makes me think it has nothing to do with lube failure or machining burs.

 

[mikemyers]

'Milky' - yes, very weird. If it has a tight area that is binding, it should do that every time. That's why I think that "binding" isn't the problem.

He sent an email to Dan Wesson, and in their return email they mentioned the same thing that 'Olympus' did up above, about the slide and the disconnector. In the return email from Dan Wesson they wrote: "What I believe is happening is the slide is hanging up on the disconector. We can correct this problem for you..."

'Olympus' - he never got the bottle of special oil when he bought the gun new. I'm going to suggest to him that he ask Dan Wesson to send him one, as from what I've read here, it's pretty essential to use it.

 

[HisSoldier]

One of the tricks people are doing to 1911's lately is a ramp from the bottom of the breech for the disconnector to ride down more gradually. When you cycle the slide all the way open the disconnector pops up as the breech uncovers it and there is a bit of a jolt when the slide slides forward again, and all this ramp does is slow the movement of the disconnector so there isn't that jolt, the disconnector is pushed back down gradually.

I have no idea if this has anything to do with this problem, but having studied what they are doing it seems like an easy fix, and one that babies the forward edge of the disconnector hole with every shot. This ramp being approximately the same width as the disconnector nose (.100?) and maybe 1/2" long X .050" at the forward edge.
Having said that I haven't actually done that to any of mine, being a lazy bum and all. I see no downside to it.

 

[mikemyers]

......The other possible cause would be the slide getting caught on the tip of the disconnector........

'Olympus', as I've been reading this, I was struggling to visualize what you meant. I found the following video, which is about something different, but 45 seconds into the video it has a clear view of how the disconnector functions. Are you suggesting that this piece may be sticking up a little bit too high, and that is what is holding the slide back? Or are you thinking it is something on the slide that is too low, and that's why it is catching?

Video - I'm talking about what is shown 45 seconds into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvVEkSNp_VE

 

[Olympus]

Usually, the tip of the disconnector is the problem. He should be able to look at the breech face of the slide and see if that's where it's hitting.

Can he not get the slide to go fully into battery at all?

 

[rogerstg]

Usually, the tip of the disconnector is the problem. He should be able to look at the breech face of the slide and see if that's where it's hitting.

And to expand on this: it's the shape of the tip; not rounded or ramped enough to let the breach slide over it, pushing it down.

FWIW, the position of the slide in the OP is exactly where it would stop if the disconnector was causing the stoppage.

 

[Olympus]

If it's the disconnectors, a light tap on the rear of the slide with a rubber mallet should get the slide to go forward. Then I'd remove the slide and get some photos of the tip of the disconnector to see if that was the problem. Personally, I think the PM-9s come with a recoil spring that's too weak. I bumped my spring up on my gun. The spring may not be strong enough to get the slide past the disconnector also.

 

[mikemyers]

.....Can he not get the slide to go fully into battery at all?.....

He tells me that it usually works just fine. Maybe one time in five or so, it gets stopped like this.

I think you guys have nailed it. I'm not sure if he has a camera/lens for close up work - will ask. It sure sounds like it needs to go back to DW.

That's an interesting idea, about the spring. Maybe DW will just replace it with a stiffer one?

 

[Olympus]

And the tip of the disconnector may not have the correct profile.