If I recall correctly Ruger made a heavier version of the Vaquero when it first hit the market, more like a Blackhawk with fixed sight. Mine wouldn’t hit a 5 gal bucket 4 out of 6 shots on bags off a bench at 50 yd. I took it to a gun show and came home with a 4-5/8” barrel Blackhawk, outstanding pistol, both stainless 45 Colt. Some years back I stumbled into a deal on a new Vaquero with a long barrel. It dawned on me that it’s a lighter smaller cylinder gun than I formerly had? I bought a Bisley a few years back too. Question is, are the loads listed for Blackhawk and Contender only, safe in the Vaquero, either version? I also have an Anaconda in 45 Colt and they too were built in 44 Mag, are they safe with the higher pressure loads as listed for Blackhawk or Contended only? Or are my Blackhawk and Bisley the only ones I have that can stand the racket?
Strength of Vaquero
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BullRunBear
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The original Vaquero was basically a Blackhawk frame and equally strong. The newer models are smaller and lighter, closer to the original Colt SAA. They aren't intended for 'Contender and Blackhawk only' loads. (Does anyone still list those?) I don't know about the Anaconda but it was never included in the Contender Blackhawk only category so I wouldn't risk it. Long ago I loaded some of those Blackhawk only rounds. They were impressively noisy and kicked like heck but they weren't the most accurate loads for my guns. Haven't reloaded any for decades.
BTW, the Bisley refers to the grip frame, not the overall strength of the gun.
Jeff
BTW, the Bisley refers to the grip frame, not the overall strength of the gun.
Jeff
35 Whelen
Member
The smaller New Vaquero should be limited to loads in the 21-23,000 psi range, (See Handloader No. 234; April 2005) roughly the same 45 ACP +P pressures.
35W
35W
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Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy
This question seems to get asked just about every week.
The pressure vessel of a revolver is the cylinder. Not the frame. If an over pressure event happens, it is the cylinder that will burst, not the frame and usually not the barrel.
There are three cylinders in this photo. All are chambered for the 45 Colt cartridge. Left to right the cylinders are Ruger 'original model' Vaquero, Ruger New Vaquero, and 2nd Generation Colt Single Action Army. Notice how thick the web of material is between chambers on all three cylinders. Somewhere I have written down the actual dimensions, but it should be obvious how much more metal there is between chambers of the 'original model' Vaquero compared to how much metal is between chambers of the other two cylinders. As has already been stated, the 'original model' Vaquero was basically a Blackhawk without the adjustable sights. All the dimensions are the same. Not so obvious in this photo is the location of the locking slots that engage the bolt. Colts have one edge of the slot directly at the center of each chamber. This is actually the thinnest amount of metal anywhere on the cylinder, thinner even than the amount of metal between chambers. When a revolver cylinder fails, typically the failure happens at that spot, between the depth of the slot and the underlying chamber. The failure then propagates forward and back allowing the cylinder to burst. What Ruger did was to move the slot slightly around the circumference of the cylinder, so the deepest part of the slot is no longer centered on the chambers. Look carefully at the slot on the 'original model' Vaquero and you will see this. That is another reason why Ruger cylinders are stronger than Colt and replica colt cylinders.
Yes, the frame of the 'original model' Vaquero as well as a Blackhawk was/is slightly larger than a Colt or New Vaquero. But that is not the reason the Rugers are stronger. The frame had/has to be larger to house the cylinder, which is slightly larger in diameter than the others.
This is the cylinder from an antique Merwin Hulbert revolver that saw an over pressure event. You can see how the failure started right at the bolt cut, then propagated forward and back, lifting a piece of the cylinder right off. You can also see how the two chambers next to the burst chamber folded right at the bolt cut, again the weakest part of the cylinder. A little bit more pressure and those two chambers would have failed too.
I don't know where that 21-23,000 psi figure comes from, Ruger specifically states that the New Vaquero should not see pressure over the SAMMI Max pressure of 14,000 psi. Perhaps they are just covering their butt, but I certainly would not push a New Vaquero past the SAAMI Max pressure.
This question seems to get asked just about every week.
The pressure vessel of a revolver is the cylinder. Not the frame. If an over pressure event happens, it is the cylinder that will burst, not the frame and usually not the barrel.
There are three cylinders in this photo. All are chambered for the 45 Colt cartridge. Left to right the cylinders are Ruger 'original model' Vaquero, Ruger New Vaquero, and 2nd Generation Colt Single Action Army. Notice how thick the web of material is between chambers on all three cylinders. Somewhere I have written down the actual dimensions, but it should be obvious how much more metal there is between chambers of the 'original model' Vaquero compared to how much metal is between chambers of the other two cylinders. As has already been stated, the 'original model' Vaquero was basically a Blackhawk without the adjustable sights. All the dimensions are the same. Not so obvious in this photo is the location of the locking slots that engage the bolt. Colts have one edge of the slot directly at the center of each chamber. This is actually the thinnest amount of metal anywhere on the cylinder, thinner even than the amount of metal between chambers. When a revolver cylinder fails, typically the failure happens at that spot, between the depth of the slot and the underlying chamber. The failure then propagates forward and back allowing the cylinder to burst. What Ruger did was to move the slot slightly around the circumference of the cylinder, so the deepest part of the slot is no longer centered on the chambers. Look carefully at the slot on the 'original model' Vaquero and you will see this. That is another reason why Ruger cylinders are stronger than Colt and replica colt cylinders.
Yes, the frame of the 'original model' Vaquero as well as a Blackhawk was/is slightly larger than a Colt or New Vaquero. But that is not the reason the Rugers are stronger. The frame had/has to be larger to house the cylinder, which is slightly larger in diameter than the others.
This is the cylinder from an antique Merwin Hulbert revolver that saw an over pressure event. You can see how the failure started right at the bolt cut, then propagated forward and back, lifting a piece of the cylinder right off. You can also see how the two chambers next to the burst chamber folded right at the bolt cut, again the weakest part of the cylinder. A little bit more pressure and those two chambers would have failed too.
I don't know where that 21-23,000 psi figure comes from, Ruger specifically states that the New Vaquero should not see pressure over the SAMMI Max pressure of 14,000 psi. Perhaps they are just covering their butt, but I certainly would not push a New Vaquero past the SAAMI Max pressure.
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35 Whelen
Member
Yes, and the Ruger New Vaquero is basically a Ruger Flat Top Blackhawk without adjustable sights.
It comes from the fact that Ruger offers, through certain distributors, their Flat Top Blackhawk Convertibles with 45 ACP (21,000 psi in +P) cylinders, (as does Uberti and Colt) and in fact have offered their "New" Vaquero with 45 ACP cylinders.
Also, if you call Ruger and ask them if their Redhawks or any of their Blackhawks are OK to shoot with the 30,000 psi handloads that one finds in todays manuals listed as "Ruger only" loads, I assure you they will tell you "No.".
35W
Fully aware of the Bisley thing, good to mention it anyway in case an observer didn’t know that, good idea to mention it.
.38 Special
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Well, OP has his answer. The Merwin Hulbert cylinder breaks my heart.
I think the new Vaquero cylinder is also shorter than the original on and all Blackhawk models too. I know the first time I went to shoot my new Vaquero I took ammo I had loaded with 230 gr round nose APC bullets and they fit just fine in my old Vaquero and Blackhawk, cylinder jammed because the nose of the bullet extended through the cylinder just enough to hit the rear of the barrel. You don’t turn a Vaquero cylinder backwards. I had about 500 rounds loaded I had to go back and seat the bullets deeper. Since I have 4 45 Colt revolvers and a Rossi Model 92 and thinking about a box or two of the “hot” loads, I really don’t want to take the chance of having loads that are too hot for any one of them. Murphy says; “If it can go wrong, sooner or later it will!”
Thanks for your Input!
An aside, I won a Rossi 5 shot 44 Mag at a Friends of the NRA event some years back. One less hole sure makes a difference on material thickness between holes and especially where the notch location is relative to the chamber. Not a fancy gun, but is well built and recoil is NOTICEABLE if you shoot factory ammo in it!
Thanks for your Input!
An aside, I won a Rossi 5 shot 44 Mag at a Friends of the NRA event some years back. One less hole sure makes a difference on material thickness between holes and especially where the notch location is relative to the chamber. Not a fancy gun, but is well built and recoil is NOTICEABLE if you shoot factory ammo in it!
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
To be clear and concise.....
"Vaquero" - 1992-2005 - Large frame, .45's safe to 32,000psi/30,000CUP
"New Vaquero" - 2005-present - Medium frame, .45's safe to 21-23,000psi based on the fact that they are
There are two known exceptions to the above. Ruger built the mid-frame New Vaquero in .44Spl and labeled it "Vaquero". They also built large frame Vaquero in .44Mag and marked it "New Vaquero".
"Vaquero" - 1992-2005 - Large frame, .45's safe to 32,000psi/30,000CUP
"New Vaquero" - 2005-present - Medium frame, .45's safe to 21-23,000psi based on the fact that they are
There are two known exceptions to the above. Ruger built the mid-frame New Vaquero in .44Spl and labeled it "Vaquero". They also built large frame Vaquero in .44Mag and marked it "New Vaquero".
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
Nothing better to do today, so I measured some cylinders. All are chambered for 45 Colt
Ruger Blackhawk----------------------- Length 1.700, Diameter 1.726, Distance Between Chambers: .060
Ruger 'original model' Vaquero-------Length 1.701, Diameter 1.728, Distance Between Chambers: .060
Ruger New Vaquero-------------------- Length 1.610, Diameter 1.673, Distance Between Chambers: .042
Colt Single Action Army 2nd Gen----Length 1.608, Diameter 1.652, Distance Between Chambers: .045
Uberti Cattleman------------------------- Length 1.618, Diameter 1.672, Distance Between Chambers: .043
Somebody write this down somewhere so I don't have to measure them again.
The Blackhawk and 'orignal model' Vaquero cylinders are so similar in size, easily within manufacturing tolerances, that they can be considered the same size.
In the photo below, an 'original model' Vaquero is at top, a New Vaquero is at the bottom. It is probably not obvious from this photo, but the 'original model' Vaquero frame is slightly larger than the New Vaquero frame to accommodate the larger diameter cylinder.
New Vaquero at the top, Colt 2nd Gen SAA at the bottom. Very similar dimensions.
P.S. I always write 'original model' Vaquero when referring to the larger, earlier model. This is partly because I always thought it was dumb that Ruger called the new one the New Vaquero. What are they going to call the next version, the Newer Vaquero? New and Improved Vaquero? Instead of doing something smart like they did with the old 22 semi-auto, calling them Mark I, Mark II, etc. Plus, as has been pointed out, Ruger has not always been consistent in what they call a New Vaquero and what they call a Vaquero.
Nothing better to do today, so I measured some cylinders. All are chambered for 45 Colt
Ruger Blackhawk----------------------- Length 1.700, Diameter 1.726, Distance Between Chambers: .060
Ruger 'original model' Vaquero-------Length 1.701, Diameter 1.728, Distance Between Chambers: .060
Ruger New Vaquero-------------------- Length 1.610, Diameter 1.673, Distance Between Chambers: .042
Colt Single Action Army 2nd Gen----Length 1.608, Diameter 1.652, Distance Between Chambers: .045
Uberti Cattleman------------------------- Length 1.618, Diameter 1.672, Distance Between Chambers: .043
Somebody write this down somewhere so I don't have to measure them again.
The Blackhawk and 'orignal model' Vaquero cylinders are so similar in size, easily within manufacturing tolerances, that they can be considered the same size.
In the photo below, an 'original model' Vaquero is at top, a New Vaquero is at the bottom. It is probably not obvious from this photo, but the 'original model' Vaquero frame is slightly larger than the New Vaquero frame to accommodate the larger diameter cylinder.
New Vaquero at the top, Colt 2nd Gen SAA at the bottom. Very similar dimensions.
P.S. I always write 'original model' Vaquero when referring to the larger, earlier model. This is partly because I always thought it was dumb that Ruger called the new one the New Vaquero. What are they going to call the next version, the Newer Vaquero? New and Improved Vaquero? Instead of doing something smart like they did with the old 22 semi-auto, calling them Mark I, Mark II, etc. Plus, as has been pointed out, Ruger has not always been consistent in what they call a New Vaquero and what they call a Vaquero.
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Very good post. The bolt notches being staggered between the chambers instead of centered over the chamber is one reason why cylinders with an odd number of chambers (typically 5 or 7) can be stronger. The other obvious one is the thicker material in the web when fewer chambers are formed. I believe this is a reason why five chambers are chosen for cylinders chambered for large-area and/or high-pressure cartridges on guns like the Freedom Arms, some SBH, BFR, and S&W X-frames. It also allows a tighter fit for J frames, or the L-frame 44 Magnum Mdl 69. I think people appreciate that fewer chambers can result in smaller cylinders for a given cartridge diameter, but not everyone is aware of the effect of bolt-notch location on even versus odd chamber numbers. It is true that notches can be offset slightly as Ruger and others have done, but the cylinder stop is still generally restricted to being directly under the chamber on the opposite side of the cylinder on most revolver designs.
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