So you guy are saying that you can generate 10,000 pounds of purssure on a safe if that is upright and bolted down with a crowbar
It's more difficult to do when standing, but not out of the question. The bolting is good because it prevents the safe from being tipped, which then makes it easier to work on. In a sense it's bad, because it will hold the safe still, making it easier to get more leverage. Overall, bolting is one of best things you can do to a safe, regardless of its weight.
Here in nyc the average crowbar is 12-16 inchs long(you really don't see 2 or 4 or more feet crowbars)(and try walking down the street with a 4-5 foot bar---not happening here---!!pull over !!!!). I do not think that much force(10,000 lbs) can be applied with such a short bar.
The RSC rating issued by UL takes this into account. It allows for a hammer up to 18" in length and 3 pounds or less, and a prying device 18" in length or less. The safe has to last for a period of 5 minutes.
HEY A1ADBJ AND ALL, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE MODULAR SAFE--ARE THEY AS GOOD----HELP
I'm not aware of any modular gun safe that would offer the security of the Sturdy of the AMSEC BF series.
Modular gun safes are great if you need the ability to move a safe of such weight or size that a once piece unit will not fit. Otherwise a standard safe will usually offer the same or better security at a fraction of the price.
league different than the scope of this thread, which is as you recall and I paraphase "need a good steel safe, no fire lining, that's has good ax and pry protection.
The OP actually stated "stop" a prybar attack, which is why this discussion became what it did. There is a huge difference between "slow" which is what most gun safes will do, and "stop" which only a few gun safes will do (as it applies to prybars).
I firmly believe (in case anyone hasn't guessed yet) there is no safe on the market that better meets that task at anything near the price than Sturdy Safe does.
I noticed that you spent some time figuring the forces that can be applied on a lever, but never got around to figuring the the forces that the Sturdy's door would withstand. Why would an engineer believe something, when he could prove it quite easily?
Again. I don't know the people at Sturdy or have a vested interest in the company, just one man's opinion and if they want me to stop talking about them let me know and I will but Alyssa made a comment earlier that she thinks her customer's rock so I'm taking that as they are okay with it.
If a company made a claim, and that claim was determined to be false in a court of law, they would loose. If a customer makes a claim, it would have no bearing on the product's manufacturer if there was ever a lawsuit due to failure.
Ultimately, if you need a safe that offers real fire protection, you need a safe with a UL tag (with a few exceptions). This rules out gun safes, as there is currently no gun safe on the market that carries a UL fire label. Of course there are manufacturers (AMSEC, Graffunder, Brown) that use materials that are used in UL fire rated safes, which will be about as close as you'll come to a real rated safe in a gun safe package.
To a consumer who doesn't know, they would appear to be equivalent in security level.
Not only is this true, but there are several "safe companies" online that perpetuate that same myth. I've seen a video on youtube from a large online "safe company" that's explaining the ratings. He states that the B rated safe shown on the video is a step under a safe with a UL RSC rating. The problem is obvious. There are 14 gauge safes with a RSC rating, and the B rate is 1/4" and 1/2" plate.
So next B rated, that should mean better protection or at least a consumer might think so. 1/4" steel on the body and 1/2" steel on the door is a good thing but what if there is a big gap in the door and the door is flush with the body. In this case, a pry bar could get a mechanical advantage 100s of times the applied force which will allow the door to be opened do doubt.
Do you know of such a safe? Most safes are designed for security, and as such, know about the risk of a pry attack. Most safes with plate doors and bodies have fairly tight tolerances, and many have recessed doors.
The reason one may see large door gaps is because of the materials used. When you're mass producing a safe with a door that's a piece of gypsum with sheet steel wrapped around it, you're going to get abnormal door sizes. As such, you need to oversize your frame a bit to make sure it fits. Most safes using plate will have the pieces laser or plasma cut, which allows for tighter tolerances.
Although, much less likely, even a C rated safe with a big gap in the door and a door that's flush with the body with also weak bolt framing support could be susceptible to a pry bar attack.
It's pretty tough to bend steel once you get to this level. Add to that that nobody building these types of safes is leaving big gaps in the door or using light gauge bolt guides.
These levels are all about cosmetics and not actual attack rating (I probably should look on UL's website again to verify that statement but I'm sure Frank will point it out if I'm wrong),
The letter rating system predates UL, and was a system originated by ISO (Insurance Services Office). They determined safe classifications that would help insurance agents determine risks for commercial insurance policies.
Although not directly related to UL's system for determining burglary resistance, it does give you some idea as to the insurance company's risk as it relates to different types of safe construction.
the body itself becomes the fulcrum so now the mechanical advantage of a 5 ft pry bar becomes something like 100/1 so Frank's 160LBS body easily delivers 16,000 LBS of force to the door which will be mostly be in the opening direction so it become 'plausible'.
Sometimes the body, sometimes the door. Depends on what you're objective is.
This is why tight tolerances between the door and body and a deep recessed door to the body are the two most important characteristics to reducing the effectiveness of a pry bar attack
I would actually place the strength of the door first, then tolerances, then the recessed design. While the latter two will do the slowing, the first will do the stopping. Combining them all is the winning combination.
With TL rating at least you know there is actually testing that has gone on. So speaking for myself, if I ever feel I need more protection than my Sturdy Safe can provide; I'm going right to a TL30 and skip all between because for pry bar attacks, ax attacks the Sturdy is great but if cutting tools are involved, much less than a TL30 won't be enough time for the cops to show up.
Most people don't know this, but the testing on a TL rated safe has little to do with opening the door. There are several things that will stop the test, such as cutting a hole that's 6 square inches through the door.
Needless to say, most UL rated safes will far surpass their testing times, especially at the hands of amateur burglars.
Again, sorry to the forum and Sturdy Safe and even to you Frank, I do respect 70% of what you say 