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Struggling with .45 ACP

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Nature Boy, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    I was able to dramaticly reduce the jams by increasing the OAL to 1.250” using the Berry’s 230g RN.

    Now I’m trying to fine tune my process

    I’m still having issues with ~15% not passing plunk and case gage.

    DCEB14BD-AD6F-4774-BA6A-E08083234F5E.jpg

    Plunk test pass/fail with the same case oriented 180 deg. which leads me to belive the bullet is getting cocked during seating

    B4C0FBFF-B908-4E67-B37C-F59409030898.jpg

    You can kind of see it here, looks like it bulging the case on one side.

    D4A4766A-916D-401E-9003-0F4092E58038.jpg

    I’m loading on a Dillon 650 using Dillon dies.

    56FF0DF7-7E81-40DA-B4BE-BF120DA779E1.jpg

    What do you guys think? What should I try to get my reject rate down?
     
  2. Jack B.

    Jack B. Member

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    I'd seat the bullet deeper. Works for me. However I don't load hot loads so seating deeper is not a pressure problem. If it's bulging case on one side bullet isn't going in straight. Nice pictures.:thumbup:
     
  3. dgod
    • Contributing Member

    dgod Contributing Member

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    Can you run the rejects back thru the sizer, with out depriming. I'm not familiar with the 650's dies. I have had several 45ACP's do that, when I resize without the deprimer, they get well and pass plunk tests. Sometimes, it will lose any crimps, if so a careful recrimp and you are ready.

    This is a way that I have tried, and then used for several years, it works for me. Probably not an "Accepted method, I.m sure there will be negative comments, just info and my $0.02

    dg
     
  4. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Are you doing bullet seating and taper crimping as separate operations?

    Don
     
  5. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Given that it goes in the barrel one way and rotated 180 is fails and the picture of your case gauge with the cartridge stopped at the rim I am going to suggest that your round is fine, OAL is good, and no bulge. What you have is a bur on the rim of the cartridge. 1911's seem to raise a burr on the rims frequently. I load a lot of range pickup 45 ACP and get that fairly frequently. Often I can remove the burr with the case gauge, probably a bad habit but it works. Other times one or two strokes with a small file resolves the issue.

    ETA: Put the cartridge in your case gauge backwards might help determine if it is a burr on the rim or other issues
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Seating stem that fits the bullet.

    M type powder funnel.

    .450" diameter on the expander/powder funnel.

    I use an old Dillon RL -450 . Know nothing about a 650.
     
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  7. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Bingo!

    Small, almost imperceptible burrs on the case rim. I had been looking for them but anticipated them being larger dings.

    Couple of passes with a triangle taper file and they pass.

    Thanks!!!
     
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  8. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    A burr should cause a fail at 45/90 or 180 deg.? At least it does with 223.

    Repeated firing/reloading can cause the rim diameter to get larger. .480" is maximum. Had it cause feeding problems in one Gold Cup.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  9. joneb

    joneb Member

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    I would check to see if the expander plug is centered in the die body.
    I flare the case mouth enough so the bullet will sit straight without tipping.
    I seat and crimp in separate steps, this will prevent the plating from bulging just above the case mouth.
    I load Xtreme's 200 gr plated RN at 1.260"
     
  10. rskent

    rskent Member

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    Maybe its just the picture, but it looks to me like you are crimping way more than you need.
     
  11. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I'm struggling with .45acp as well.
    Posting to keep notified.
     
  12. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Ditto.
     
  13. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    In relation to this above post, what is your case measurement of a loaded round at the the case mouth?

    Out of all the 45 acp mixed brass that I have loaded I never experienced a failure to chamber or jam due to a "burr" on the case rim? This is out of "regular 1911.s, Custom 1911s, Sigs, Xds a variety of barrels. Suppose it is possible but usally it is not seating deep enough. A regular RN should not be a issue.

    Check your crimp.

    But of course without being there, it is all speculation and could be the phase of the moon.
     
  14. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    how much of a bell do you put on the case? Not enough of a bell could cause the bullet to seat not quite square
     
  15. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I'm also seeing way too much crimp in that pic.
     
  16. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I agree with rskent and others
    Need a better picture but it looks like you may be crimping too much. Over crimping can cause issues.
     
  17. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Here’s 4 pulled at random, how do they look?

    89EE0B4E-2F71-40EB-8AC4-9EEE905615B1.jpg

    When I did my inital set up I was having them fail the case gage becuse I didn’t have enough crimp. I kept adjusting just enouth to solve that issue then locked it down
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  18. bds

    bds Member

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    You cannot go by looks. When working with tight chamber barrels or case gage, you must go by measurements or the "plunk" test.

    With finished rounds that don't fully chamber, I will usually adjust OAL/COL until they drop in the barrel freely with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the rifling.

    I am also loading on Dillon 650 using Dillon dies along with Pro 1000 using Lee dies with Berry's, RMR and X-Treme 200/230 RN bullets.
    • To rule out burrs on case rim or insufficiently sized brass, check your resized brass with the case gage before loading test rounds.
    • Since resized case length can vary by few thousandths, use shorter cases to determine your maximum working OAL/COL or subtract a few thousandths from your max OAL when using longer cases to compensate for case length variance. If longer cases were used to determine max OAL, shorter cases can allow bullet nose to protrude out more to hit the rifling when chambered. If your OAL variance is too much, try loading with resized brass. If OAL variance decreases with resized brass, make sure your shell plate is tight to eliminate shell plate tilt/deflection.
    • Berry's MFG recommends using 1.250" with their 230 gr RN bullets - https://www.berrysmfg.com/pub/files/BulletCOL.pdf And in my Sig 1911 barrel that has tight chamber and no leade, 1.250" OAL with .473" taper crimp will fully chamber (if finished round is not out-of-round - read on).
    • Since different case length will produce differing amount of flare of case mouth, use shorter case to set the flare amount. This will help with tilting of the bullet during seating or collapsing/bulging of case which will also prevent finished rounds from fully chambering in tight chamber barrel or case gage. I usually use enough flare to barely set the bullet base inside the case mouth.
    • As mentioned in "Myth Busting Neck Tension and Bullet Setback" thread, case wall thickness is often not consistent and finished rounds can be out-of-round at the case neck and if coupled with tilted bullet during seating which bulges case neck on one side, this can increase out-of-round to the point case neck will rub/hang on the chamber wall to prevent full chambering. To check for out-of-round, measure case neck at several locations (12/6 and 3/9 O'clock, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  19. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Two things, plated bullets require less flare than lead to get good case tension. Are you over flaring, and then over crimping to compensate? Reduce the belling / flaring and the crimp.
     
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  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Correct, that will ruin neck tension and there are far better ways to fix that issue. :)
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Jams I am assuming were failures to feed, which the longer OAL cured? That bullet loaded to fall between 1.260 to 1.265 OAL should run 100%.

    Are you checking the sized cases with the gauge prior to loading? If so, and they pass, it is definitely a seating or crimping issue.

    I cured sloppy seating (Not very straight), with a Redding Lyman M Die style expander and a Redding sleeved competition seater. It is also nice to be able to dial back to whatever bullet I am loading. Just the expander may have cured it by its self. Redding and RCBS have both copied the M Die style and all their expanders are made that way now. Good stuff.

    Starting the bullets nice and straight? It makes a difference, even with sleeved seaters.

    For crimp all you need is enough to remove the bell, or a hair more. I adjust the taper crimp die (And it needs to be a true taper crimp) so that the bell gets completely removed on the shortest cases, which means the longer ones will get a hair of inward movement, maybe .001.

    Th epics in post #17 look fine.

    Berrys 230 Gr @ 1.260/5 OAL.
    Berrys 230 Gr RN .45 ACP Crimp Pic a.JPG

    Purposely over crimped Berrys 200 Gr RN. Bad juju.
    Over Crimped .45 ACP - Berrys 200 Gr RN Pic 1.JPG
    Over Crimped .45 ACP - Berrys 200 Gr RN Pic 2.JPG
     
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  22. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    That’s correct

    I have not but I will
     
  23. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    Well, nobody's mentioned the Lee FCD yet, so let me be the first. (Flame suit donned)

    I had the same sort of problem when loading cast bullets with mixed brass. My diagnosis was the slightly bigger diameter cast bullets, along with some headstamps that have slightly thicker brass (PMC and Federal, maybe some others too) caused a bulge similar to your picture that resulted in some instances of plunking failures. I can load jacketed bullets with the same dies and brass with 100% success sans FCD.

    So I bought a FCD, which solved my cast bullet problem. I have done accuracy testing with my FCD ammo, both with sand bags and a Ransome rest. Considering mixed brass, and a Range Officer pistol, its not as bad as some will have you believe. Generally speaking, 10 ring on a rapid/timed fire bullseye target at 25 yds. Certainly better than I can hold.
     
  24. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I have used the Lee FCD as a band-aid to correct a bunch of ammo that I loaded with misadjusted dies. It works. I don't rely on it, though. I was always able to go back and find the error in my loading set up.
     
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  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The FCD may very well, most likely will, get them to chamber, but I would look at getting them straighter before I resorted to the FCD. If it were me. :)
     
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