Study: 1.7M Kids Live With Loaded Guns (merged)

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skidmark

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Study: 1.7M Kids Live With Loaded Guns

[spitting nails]
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. There are vermin, (most but not all) lawyers, and the new bottom of the barrel - pediatricians' journals.
[still spitting nails]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050906/D8CEOCQ80.html

Sep 6, 8:06 AM (ET)

By MIKE STOBBE
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ATLANTA (AP) - About 1.7 million U.S. children live in homes that have loaded and unlocked guns, according to what is described as the first comprehensive survey of gun storage in homes across the country.

The study, published Tuesday in the journal Pediatrics, found that 2.5 percent of children live in homes with loaded and unsecured firearms. Estimates from the early 1990s had put the percentage at 10 percent. The new results suggest a decline, but that doesn't mean there's cause for celebration, said Catherine Okoro, a study author.

"That's still too many children to be put at risk," said Okoro, an epidemiologist with the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The study is based on a 2002 telephone survey of about 241,000 adults and is the first to provide data on gun storage in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, its authors said.

Nationally, 33 percent of adults said they kept firearms in or around their home. The highest percentage was in Wyoming, where 63 percent said they had firearms. The lowest percentage was reported in the District of Columbia, where 5 percent reported having guns at home. The district has long-standing bans on handguns and semiautomatic weapons.

A little more than 4 percent of the respondents nationally said they keep guns loaded and unlocked, and 2.5 percent reported having loaded, unlocked firearms in homes where children lived.

Alabama had the highest proportion - 7.3 percent - of homes in which children lived and guns were kept loaded and unlocked. The next highest states were Alaska (6.6 percent), Arkansas (6.6 percent), Montana (6.4 percent) and Idaho (5.2 percent). At bottom was Massachusetts, with 0.3 percent.

Researchers said they aren't certain why some states reported higher rates than others, but they believe people living in rural communities are most likely to have loaded guns in or around the house.

That wouldn't explain why Alabama is No. 1, however, said Jim McVay of the Alabama Department of Public Health.

"We have a hunting tradition in the Deep South, but there's no excuse for having loaded guns in the house," said McVay, director of the department's Bureau of Health Promotion & Chronic Disease.

Okoro said she hoped the survey results will be used by state public health officials as they work on intervention programs to prevent firearm deaths.

About 1,400 children are killed by firearms each year, according to CDC estimates. It's not known how many of those are killed by guns left around the house, the researchers said.

But they noted a study published in a February issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association that showed safe gun storage may prevent deaths. The Seattle-based study found that in homes with guns, there were fewer incidents of shootings when guns were kept locked, unloaded and separated from ammunition.
 
They don't even mention if there is a good reason for those guns to be loaded. Mabee the neighbors dogs have gotten out and attacked someone. What about an Ex-Spouce. Mabee the person lives in bear country. Heck my revolver is "loaded" with snap caps right now. My family keeps a loaded BB gun for rabbits.
 
So what is the rate of accidental gun deaths of children to number of homes with unsecured firearms, and how does that compare to other forms of death?
 
I am curious as to how they worded the questions. I have loaded guns in my house, but all are secured in some way. What is the point of this survey? More "safe storage" laws?

"We have a hunting tradition in the Deep South, but there's no excuse for having loaded guns in the house," said McVay, director of the department's Bureau of Health Promotion & Chronic Disease.

Maybe not for hunting, but certainly for protection. A better thing to say might be that there is no excuse for having unsecured firearms in a house with young children.
 
So what?I grew up in a house eith loaded firearms.I'n still alive to talk about it.Looks like the liberal are trying to use the 1.7 figure to scare folks with.
 
I would flip that around - "With the Supreme Court decisions stating the police have no legal requirement to defend anyone, thus placing the legal burden of self defense squarely upon the individual, coupled with parental rights and duties of custodianship, I find it inexcusable that parents do not keep loaded firearms in house with young children, with those weapons stored in a manner not accessable to those selfsame children, unless under strict adult supervison during marksmanship training, but still leaving these weapons accessable for self defense."
This is why my gun is ON me....
 
"Lump 'um in, Tex"

"Homes" include crack houses. The survey said that 5% of DC homes have firearms. How many of those are legally owned firearms?

Home with unloaded firearms experience fewer shootings? How many of those homes use gun cabinets or safes compared to the homes with loaded firearms? Where are those loaded firearms kept? In a holster or sitting on the kitchen table?

Too many questions, too little time . . .

Don't forget, "even one child at risk is too many . . ." :uhoh:
 
Only 1.7M? I'd bet the number is a LOT higher than that, but the counters can't get into our houses (yet) and get an accurate number. This sounds like one of those numbers they pulled out of their butt.
 
I grew up in a house with loaded guns, sharp knives, electricity, hand tools, power tools, poison oak, ivy and sumac, nettles, uncovered buckets, the neighbor's pool and dogs, lawn mowers, a little brother, and sticks in the yard. And I lived way up North in the heart of Yankeeland.

I had something that shielded me from all this eeevil--a father. Yeah, go figure, bet that's something that was never factored into the study!

Dad taught me something that is not taught today--how to overcome danger. Dad taught me to swim, how to identify poison oak or ivy, how to handle tools, how to handle knives, and how to handle firearms.

It's beyond belief of liberal academics, but education (something the Left disapproves of) works. :D
 
About 1,400 children are killed by firearms each year, according to CDC estimates. It's not known how many of those are killed by guns left around the house, the researchers said.

Gee, it's right there on the CDC web site. Maybe the researchers can't figure out that intentional homicide and accidents are not the same thing.

Specifically, at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html, one could easily find out that in 2002, there were exactly 115 kids (under 18) killed in gun accidents anywhere -- home, street and field included.

That's one in every 625,000 kids. Too high, but it pales in comparison to other causes.

Cause or mechanism of deathNumberPercent
Motor Vehicles481955%
Drowning100712%
Suffocation92011%
Other or unspecified7398%
Fire5717%
Poison2563%
Bicycles1542%
Falls1251%
Guns1151%
Total8706100%
accidental_kid_deaths_2002.gif
 
I'm reading John Lott's 'The Bias Against Guns' right now. Just finished the chapter where he analyzes safe storage laws and their impact on gun accidents/suicides.

The short version is: the statistics don't show any significant reduction in accidental shootings in states where safe storage laws are in effect. Rapes, robberies and burglaries do jump up in those states though. Another interesting point he makes is that accidental shootings overwhelmingly tend to happen in homes with a history of criminal records, alcoholism, drivers license suspensions.

It's a really interesting book, worth reading.

More anti-gun hysteria.
 
Well, guys, the truth is the truth, whether we like it or not.

And here it is: States which reported higher numbers of guns stored unlocked and loaded where children live DID have a higher incidence of accidental firearm deaths of children. The numbers are low -- really low, in fact -- but also very real.

With the cheap availability of quick-access lock-boxes, there is little excuse not to keep firearms less accessible to the kids. Gunproofing your kids is fine, but some just won't get it, or will forget it at the worst time.

Belts and suspenders, people. Are our kids worth any less?

------------------
Methodology:

I imported the study's numbers into Excel, and added a column for actual accidental kid deaths from firearms in that state, 1999-2004. I then compared the number of deaths to the number of kids living in households with loaded, unlocked guns. Chart below. The correlation coefficient between those two variables was .82, which is pretty conclusive.

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The study is based on a 2002 telephone survey of about 241,000 adults
Who here answers telephone surveys about their possessions?

Q: "Do you have any guns"
A: "Sure"

Q: "Valuable jewelry"
A: "Some"

Q: "Do you have a big dog or an alarm system"
A: "Nope"

Q: "When are your and your family leaving for vacation?"
A: "We'll be gone from September 17 through the 24 th"

Thank you, no more questions. :rolleyes:
 
It's all about the money...

Two words "Grant Money". If there is no story, there is no grant money.

If you looks at all these studies, you will notice the same tone... "... further study is needed ..."
 
You know what's truly shocking? The number of homes with children and sharpened, unlocked knives. I'm betting it's in the millions.

Seriously, though, as much as I'm against nanny-state politics, I have to agree that it's not wise to keep firearms unlocked in a house with kids. Yes, I grew up in a house full of guns, some of which were loaded and none of which were locked up, and I lived. Still, that's anecdotal evidence. It's like saying that since I've never been in a fatal car accident, there is no reason to wear a seat belt.

I have three small kids, and plenty of guns and ammo. I know enough about kids to know they are curious and don't always follow the rules. While my kids know the rules, curiosity and peer pressure may someday get the best of them. Or worse, one of their friends may decide to investigate my collection when no one is looking. So ... I keep everything well secured. The only time there is an unsecured and loaded firearm in my house is when it is on my person.
 
I worry more about the problem of "loaded" parents, that have no time for there children.
 
I'm one of those poor children who DIDN'T grow up in a home where there where loaded firearms.

Thankfully we never needed a gun, but if we had I'd have been SOL.
 
I grew up with guns in the house (on display in the living room), but none of them were loaded and the ammunition was kept in a lockbox of my father's. When I got old enough he showed me how to handle the guns. When I got a bit older he showed me how to shoot them. When I got old enough he showed my how to get the ammunition from the lockbox. "old enough" varies with the individual child and the parent's understanding of the child.

It would be expected that there would be an excellent correlatoin between accidental firearms deaths and the presence of unsecured firearms in the household. This study indicates that the data bears this out. It would be much more dramatic if Matt Payne's graph were not essentially linear.

Lack of linearity would show that the risk was greater in states with high availabiltiy than in states where weapons were secured. Linearity indicates that the risk to an individual is the same (gross numbers don't make it riskier. the ratio is the true indicator) in MD as in GA. The risk is roughly the same.
 
Study questions

Survey Questions and Definitions of Firearm-Storage Practices
The interviewer began the firearm section of the survey by first informing the respondent that "the next three questions are about firearms. We are asking these in a health survey because of our interest in firearm-related injuries. Please include weapons such as pistols, shotguns, and rifles; but not BB guns, starter pistols, or guns that cannot fire. Include those kept in a garage, outdoor storage area, or motor vehicle." Presence of firearms in the home was assessed by asking the respondent, "Are any firearms kept in or around your home?" Firearm-storage patterns were derived from 2 questions: "Are any of these firearms now loaded?" and "Are any of these loaded firearms also unlocked? By ‘unlocked’ we mean you do not need a key or combination to get the gun or to fire it. We don't count a safety as a lock." We created 3 firearm-storage pattern categories: "any household firearm" (yes/no), "loaded household firearm" (yes/no), and "loaded and unlocked household firearm" (yes/no). However, the state of California used a different set of firearm questions than the other states, and as a result, we were only able to create 2 categories for California: "any household firearm" and "loaded and unlocked household firearm."

http://pediatrics.aappublications.o...ortspec=relevance&journalcode=pediatrics#SEC1
 
I grew up in a household with an unloaded gun. My father brought it back from World War II. I'm sure he thought it was pretty well hidden. It wasn't. If there'd been ammunition with it, I'd have figured out how to load the magazine, insert it into the gun, chamber a round, and make it go "Bang!"

The fly in the ointment wasn't having a gun, but failing to tell his children anything about firearms. If he'd had any sense, he'd have taken us shooting, taught us all about firearms, and trusted us to learn and remember the obvious lessons.

If I'd had children, they'd have grown up shooting from the age of about four, perhaps younger. They'd have been perfectly safe around guns.
 
Lack of linearity would show that the risk was greater in states with high availabiltiy than in states where weapons were secured.

No, that's what the linear relationship shows.
 
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