Primer/bullet sealer

[blarby]

Kinda a two-oarter on primer/bullet sealer :

So for regular use target ammo, probably a waste of time....as the ammo gets turned over real fast anyway.

But for long term storage ammo, as well as wet season hunting ammo...whatcha think about it ?


Midway offers this :

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/954332/markron-custom-bullet-and-primer-sealer-1-2-oz-liquid

and this

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/492330/hornady-one-shot-primer-sealer-kit-package-of-4


Anyone use either, or something better ?

 

[rcmodel]

A total waste of time & money.
Unless you are a Navy Seal operating at under water pressure.
Or excessively OCD.

Most all handloads used for hunting never get wet in the first place.
If they do, it won't be more then a few hours before you get tired of being wet, and go home to change clothes & clean guns & ammo.

If you really really worry about your hunting ammo getting wet?
Put your extra ammo in a plastic slip-top ammo box, or inside a zip-lock bag.

I have fished misplaced shotgun reloads out of a flooded duck blind after several days or weeks, and shot them.
Centerfire rifle or handgun loads would fair no worse.

rc

 

[50 Shooter]

Steal a bottle of your wifes clear nail polish as it will do the same thing.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

And if she is a Goth it will be tactical black. I, use my wife's old polish to mark my case's for sorting purposes.

 

[T Bran]

I also use nail polish for site paint it comes in some bright purdy colors.

Sorry for the off topic couldnt help it.

 

[blarby]

Ok... any actual input other than the nail polish derail, or its a completely useless product ?

Anyone actually used it before ?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

From a grumpy middle aged guy: I think we would been better served hearing from all the guys that have had moisture issues from not using this product....Anyone?

 

[Swampman]

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blarby:
I've used the Markron and found it to be no better at sealing primers than my wifes old nail polish. In fact, the $1.99 el cheapo brands work fine too and seem to come in brighter and more varied colors which helps if you use colored primer annulus rings to ID your ammo types like I do.
For proper adhesion, make sure the outer portion of your primer pockets is clean. If you use Nu Finish or a similar wax/polymer to clean your cases, make sure you remove it from the area you'll be sealing. Acetone works well for this but use pure acetone, not the stuff people use to remove polish from their nails.
I apply the sealer pretty liberally, then I use a paper towel dampened with acetone to remove the excess. Always wear chemical resistant gloves when you do this.
I usually apply the dealer to 10 cases, then wipe them down. Remember that the stuff down in the "groove" is what actually does the sealing, any excess just gums up your rifle.
If you're REALLY cheap you can make your own sealer from old, unusable single base powder and acetone. I made some once from some pulled WWII IMR 4895 and IIRC, It took about 22 grains to an ounce of acetone to get the consistency right. If you want to color it for ID purposes you can soak the fiber from dried out felt tip markers in the acetone before you add the powder.

As for case mouth sealing, I tried several methods, including Markron/nail polish, tree pruning asphalt (trying to copy Lake City), but honestly never felt good about any of that stuff being smeared down my bore with each shot. I was tumble lubing some cast bullets when the idea hit me to use liquid Alox (X-Lox actually), to seal case mouths. I tried painting it onto the sides of the bullet with a brush and coating the inside of the case mouth with a Q-Tip (both done before seating), before I came up with my current method where I put a slight bell on the case mouth before I seat the bullet. After seating, I fill the small void between neck and bullet with the Alox, let dry for a couple of days, then crimp and wipe off the excess.
All three methods sealed well, but the one I use now was the best combination of speed, low mess and low smoke.
Hope this helps,

 

[FROGO207]

I am the ammo can plastic baggie type of guy myself. I see no need to take the time to use or to buy a product to solve for me a problem that has been a non issue in the past. Well if there ever is a flood/??? and my ammo sealing protocol is breached then I may change my mind. I also have discovered new unfired .22 ammo on the ground that has been there all winter and picked it up out of a mud puddle, wiped it off, and fired it without problem. I know that the military USED to seal primers/projectiles in WW2 vintage ammo. I have not seen recently sealed surplus on US made mil spec so unsure if they still do it today. Anyone want to do a wet ammo test to see if we really need to seal primers??

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

For what it's worth I, found my 3 gallon bucket of .45's, at my range that was left during the clean up after the last shoot, and cookout. I, drained the water off from the rains that had occurred for the 3-4 weeks that they had been sitting there, and let them dry off. Then shot them up later that day,

 

[Walkalong]

A couple of posts went away. Play nice fellas.

 

[gamestalker]

If I thought my ammo was going to be submerged or exposed to excessive levels of moisture I would probably use something like this, no doubt about it. But on the flip side and even it did get exposed to that degree, I would very likely pull the primers and powder after exposure, tumble the brass, and then start all over again. Last hunting season I had a couple of boxes that did get excessively exposed and most of it got shot up during hunting season, the rest I pulled all the components and tossed the primers, saved the powder (it appeared to be unexposed) and reused the bullets for target.

Years back I used a sealer on my primers during my first couple of years of reloading. Any more I don't give sealers a second thought based on zero failures after exposure.

Thanks for the info though Blarby! For a fellow who expects some degree of constant or excessive exposure to the elements, a sealer might be a good idea.

GS

 

[Swampman]

Here's a test by brassfetcher on velocity variation in .40 S&W due to water exposure.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...wzqM42cAmpvoVa5Nw&sig2=aOecSix0EDM8ZbzDDZsnKw

And here's an ATK presentation on a new method for 5.56 mm case mouth sealing.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6nhi_toNAx-q24vhw&sig2=8u2a89YIb9sT4YLfJcF0DQ

And here's Ed Harris on .22 LR ammo and which ones can withstand moisture the best.

http://shilohtv.com/?p=7155

While I probably fully seal less than 5% of the ammo I load, I think it makes sense for certain critical applications. Others are welcome to do so or not according to their own needs and desires, but to claim that it's worthless or a symptom of OCD flies in the face of what the military, police forces and premium ammo makers around the world do and say.

 

[LiveLife]

Anyone use either, or something better?

Anyone actually used it before?

For long-term storage, I have used vacuum sealed Food Saver bags with very good results. Once vacuum packed, ammo inside the bag should be dry regardless of humidity level or exposure to moisture.

For short-term storage, I keep reloads inside plastic Folgers coffee cans.

 

[blarby]

Ok, this worked real good :

Got a refillable staedler marker.

Mixed acetone, and 3/4 clear lacquer in a jar.

Shook it real good, filled the pen.

Application was like writing with a sharpie.

I coated 10, and I'm gonna let 'em sit in a jar of water for a week, and see how it works.

I'll keep ya'll posted !

 

[788Ham]

I've reloaded for over 35 years now, have never even thought about sealing the primers. Mine always go BOOM, must be doing something right! Much a-do about nothing!

 

[DBR]

Probably the best sealer generally available is green 290 Loctite. It is a very low viscosity wicking/penetrating Loctite that was developed for sealing pinholes in welds in things like gear housings.

290 is the Loctite designation but most auto parts stores sell something like it under other brand names as "green wicking sealer" or similar names.

I apply it with a toothpick, just a tiny drop at the primer "ring" and the case mouth then wipe off any excess after a minute or so. It gets sucked right into any available space.

I have done a few informal tests with primed cases and even leaving a puddle of the 290 on the case head over night I haven't seen any migrate inside to the primer. The 290 will setup even if there is some residual case lube present. It is designed to work on fasteners that have preservative oil residue on them.

Unlike lacquer, Loctite does not have any solvents in it, it cures in the absence of oxygen.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I'm eagerly reading through the replies.

I have a legitimate reason to need sealer.

I carry a 9mm revolver. My speed strip reloads that live in a dark sweaty pocket are rimmed fmj handloads on 38s&w brass. This way my reload would be able to eject just like any 38 without having a bulky moon clip in my pocket.

I'd like to seal this ammunition

 

[oneounceload]

Steal a bottle of your wifes clear nail polish as it will do the same thing.

George and Roy's is the same thing anyway - make it for gun use and quadruple the price - same with half the gun cleaners and oils

 

[Ditchtiger]

I coated 10, and I'm gonna let 'em sit in a jar of water for a week, and see how it works.

You going to soak 10 un-coated as a control?

 

[rcmodel]

Steal a bottle of your wifes clear nail polish as it will do the same thing.

Lets hope the high dollar primer seal lacquer doesn't have the same nail softening oils, strengtheners, and waxes in it though.

If you want cheap, pure, thin, fast drying, real lacquer, buy it at the hobby shop.

People paint cloth covered scale model R/C airplanes with it.

rc

 

[FROGO207]

^^^ RC you do realize that would require a trip to the hobby store instead of just raiding your wifes cosmetic stash in most instances!

 

[rfwobbly]

RCMODEL: I have fished misplaced shotgun reloads out of a flooded duck blind after several days or weeks, and shot them.

You gotta lotta nerve shootin' at blind ducks.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Here's a test by brassfetcher on velocity variation in .40 S&W due to water exposure.

I have a dumb question about the tests that were done in swampmans reply.

I wonder if they used cold water to do the test. I know that is bad weather the rain is usually cold but how much of the lower velocity lost was due to moisture and how much was due to temp.

Wet brass would transmit colder temperature a lot faster than dry brass.

All the graphs show the more the gun was shot the higher the fps went.
Is the barrel warming up the loads?

I would think that if powder got moist it would be alot more erratic across the graph. Not a steady incline from slow to faster.

As far as the tests done, I don't buy it on moisture along without the temps being equal and that wasn't mentioned.

I don't seal mine either.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I coated 10, and I'm gonna let 'em sit in a jar of water for a week, and see how it works.

Blarby,

When you take them out of the water, set them up to let the temps of the shell acclimate to the temp of the dry shells you will test them against.

If the shells that were wet shoot consistently at the same velocity of the dry shells, after they are all known to be the same temp,inside and out, maybe I'll start sealing my hunting loads to.